What happened to 40-hour work weeks?

[vi edit]

There are pros and cons to unions....

The cons, however, can be huge, so they get more spot light.

Not just the spotlight...but actually effect those of who aren't remotely affiliated with the union. When a union strikes and airlines/schools/builders/dealers/ect are shut down that impacts all of us.

Or when a union is at war and does childish (if not outright criminal) acts like vandalizing property, dropping nailbombs on highways near executive houses that endanger others (I live near CAT HQ and have unfortunately witnessed this) or see people being left on a payroll when they would have easily been fired in any other non-union shop it's hard not to draw a negative opinion.

The "pros" they provide mean very little to those of us non-union even if their existance has given us more competitive pay, better benefits, and certain legal protections. We can't directly associate the pro's like we can the cons.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

live to work or work to live? you are the only one that can decide.

 

[ShawnD1]

There are pros and cons to unions....

The cons, however, can be huge, so they get more spot light.

The biggest con I've seen from unions is how they refuse to give up defined benefits pensions.

A defined benefits pension is when your pension says you will be paid a certain percent of your income for the rest of your life. In almost every case, the amount paid out exceeds the amount paid in by a HUGE amount. This means the cost of hiring another union member is astronomical, so the company ends up contracting things out. People who quite or retire are not replaced. Having to run through a bunch of different contracted companies gets to be a serious pain in the ass :'(

 

[vi edit]

The biggest con I've seen from unions is how they refuse to give up defined benefits pensions.

I don't really see that as a con or any slam on the union. It's something that many were offered and was come to be expected. Anyone would be upset to let go of that. Union or not...who wouldn't take that deal over a lame "50% up to 3%" company match 401k plan.

 

[96Firebird]

Lot of good insight here. I got a voicemail from a company I interviewed with asking me to call them back, so that is a good sign. Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job? I'm just afraid to turn down a much needed job because they work more than what I want to work. I feel like that would disappoint my parents and family, plus my girlfriend's uncle got me the interview because he works there (not in the eng. dept. though). I guess I'll see what they have to say, I don't have to accept the offer right now, right? I feel like such a newb when it comes to job offers.

 

[Texashiker]

Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job?

Once your offered the job, ask them about the work hours.

If you do not like the hours, do not take the job.

Most of the companies I worked for, they had set hours. If you do not like the required hours, leave. Or better yet, do not take the job to start with.

 

[Gibson486]

Lot of good insight here. I got a voicemail from a company I interviewed with asking me to call them back, so that is a good sign. Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job? I'm just afraid to turn down a much needed job because they work more than what I want to work. I feel like that would disappoint my parents and family, plus my girlfriend's uncle got me the interview because he works there (not in the eng. dept. though). I guess I'll see what they have to say, I don't have to accept the offer right now, right? I feel like such a newb when it comes to job offers.

do not bring it up.

Let me make it clear....engineering is a career, not a job. The job is how you further your career. Some workplaces try not to make 60 hour work weeks, some just do not care. you should have been able to decipher it during the interview. No matter where you go....you are going to be expected to work on your own time at least once in a while.

 

[Golgatha]

I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

 

[vi edit]

Lot of good insight here. I got a voicemail from a company I interviewed with asking me to call them back, so that is a good sign. Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job? I'm just afraid to turn down a much needed job because they work more than what I want to work. I feel like that would disappoint my parents and family, plus my girlfriend's uncle got me the interview because he works there (not in the eng. dept. though). I guess I'll see what they have to say, I don't have to accept the offer right now, right? I feel like such a newb when it comes to job offers.

Ask your girlfriend's uncle what the company culture/team/management expectations are. Going to a current employee where you can get unbiased opinion is really the only way to figure out that answer. There's no real graceful way to do it prior without raising flags. Maybe if you get a one-on-one with employees and non-managers. But otherwise your safe bet is going back to your GF's uncle.

 

[96Firebird]

He has told me that the one engineer is there until around 6PM, but I'm not sure what time he starts. He also told me the company was recently bought by a company located in Spain, and that it is expected to grow bigger than the parent company (~500 employees). Right now they have ~30 employees. So I guess it would be a good time for me to start working there, maybe I can make my way up quicker. Waiting for lunch time so I can call him back...

 

[Capt Caveman]

Lot of good insight here. I got a voicemail from a company I interviewed with asking me to call them back, so that is a good sign. Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job? I'm just afraid to turn down a much needed job because they work more than what I want to work. I feel like that would disappoint my parents and family, plus my girlfriend's uncle got me the interview because he works there (not in the eng. dept. though). I guess I'll see what they have to say, I don't have to accept the offer right now, right? I feel like such a newb when it comes to job offers.

You're not very ambitious are you?

 

[Saint Nick]

Lot of good insight here. I got a voicemail from a company I interviewed with asking me to call them back, so that is a good sign. Should I bring up working 40 hours a week when I call them back, or could that ruin my chances of getting the job? I'm just afraid to turn down a much needed job because they work more than what I want to work. I feel like that would disappoint my parents and family, plus my girlfriend's uncle got me the interview because he works there (not in the eng. dept. though). I guess I'll see what they have to say, I don't have to accept the offer right now, right? I feel like such a newb when it comes to job offers.

Is this a troll post? Are you serious?

Take the damn job.

 

[bonkers325]

It seems like whenever I go on an interview, the engineers are working 50+ hours per week.

the engineers are working 50+ hours per week.

engineers

welcome to the field of engineering. if you work 40 hour work weeks, you're either light on work or you're just a grunt.

 

[slag]

It's a give take game that only the employer wins. Some employees gave it because they feel like they need to do it get ahead..and the employer takes it. Some do it because they have no life outside of work...and the employer takes it. Some do it because they hate their family life...and the employer takes it. Some do it because they feel their employer will fire them if they don't. So the employer takes it. And it doesn't cost them a dime extra.

Only way to "win" is not to play the game. Set your boundaries early on and don't give your employer any free time.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[ShawnD1]

I don't really see that as a con or any slam on the union. It's something that many were offered and was come to be expected. Anyone would be upset to let go of that. Union or not...who wouldn't take that deal over a lame "50% up to 3%" company match 401k plan.

I don't expect you to give it up after it was already agreed upon; that would be a breach of contract IMO. I mean that NEW PEOPLE should not get one.

I don't want to give too many details, but a telephone company and a railroad company in my area have been splitting off and contracting out like mad because their unions demand new union members have a defined benefit pension. Since it's cheaper to contract out and work outside of the union, the result is that people put on projects are non-union and they get non-union wages simply because of the pension issue. If they would just allow new hires to get a defined contribution pension instead, the companies would hire new union employees who get all of the other union benefits.

The union is losing members because of this. We are constantly shifting from union to non-union because the union's demands are just too unreasonable.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Companies are concerned with one thing and that is getting the most work for the least money. This has resulted in a general trend where low skill positions minimize hours so that benefits paid are minimal and highly skilled individuals are "encouraged" to work as much as possible to again minimize benefits. One person doing the work of two gets no bonus where benefits are concerned.

 

[manimal]

It really does boil down to choices. Look, I understand we all have big projects and can have a few weeks a year where we work long hours. At my company, I used to function as the IT manager for our national convention and one of our other large events and that often meant 12 to 14 hour days for 10 days straight. Sometimes, you have to do that. I've since transferred to a new position and don't do those events anymore but I will have big projects this summer and anticipate a few weeks with long hours.

But if you're working those kinds of hours EVERY week, you need to look elsewhere. Any company that would force employees to work those kinds of hours is NOT a company you want to work for in the long-term, and anyone who seriously says they "enjoy" working 100 hrs/week doing audits, for example, is full of it and is just trying to rationalize their hours.

I don't mean to degrade anyone, but does it really seem fair that someone who digs ditches or something of that nature gets paid for EVERY hour worked while an engineer doesn't? Think about that for a moment -- whose time is worth more in reality? This is exactly why I am seriously considering going the consulting route once a couple of my near-term plans are realized, as I want to be paid for the time I work. Period.

Damn straight. The corporate mindset in NYC is very different than what I have experienced here in Indianapolis as well. In NYC, LA, and san fran the expectation WAS 60 hours plus a week if you wanted to get ahead. The wife and I both left six figure jobs in NYC since they were literally killing us. We barely saw each other and were real cracky when we did.

I still work 60 + hours now since I am starting up my own business while I still have a foot in the door at my old company for cash flow and in case my biz does not work.

 

[DrPizza]

I was reminded of this in another thread yesterday:
No one ever said on their deathbed, "I wish I spent more time at the office."

If you want to give up 13.9%* of your personal/family/relaxation time each week and donate it to your employer, go for it.

*calculation based on sleeping 8 hours each night, and a 40 hour work week. That leaves 72 hours of personal time. If you have a half hour commute, it jumps to just about 15% of your discretionary time.

 

[vi edit]

*calculation based on sleeping 8 hours each night, and a 40 hour work week. That leaves 72 hours of personal time. If you have a half hour commute, it jumps to just about 15% of your discretionary time.

That's the other hidden killer...is it's not just a "40 hour week". You have lunch cutting in there for another 30 minutes to an hour a day, plus I'd wager that people in these positions are commuting from the 'burbs so 30 minutes might even be on the low side. And then you have the time spent in the morning getting ready. And then you have checking email from home or or any other task you might do that's work related.

It's even more of a % than you figured.

 

[Capt Caveman]

It's a give take game that only the employer wins. Some employees gave it because they feel like they need to do it get ahead..and the employer takes it. Some do it because they have no life outside of work...and the employer takes it. Some do it because they hate their family life...and the employer takes it. Some do it because they feel their employer will fire them if they don't. So the employer takes it. And it doesn't cost them a dime extra.

Only way to "win" is not to play the game. Set your boundaries early on and don't give your employer any free time.

Again, it depends. I took a job to work at a start-up. I took a $15k cut in pay for more responsibility and more hours. There was a time I worked 13 weekends in a row on top of 10+ hour days. However, I learned and developed more skills than in any other job, helped the company go public and was able to take a 18 month sabbatical.

Now, I don't have to work those hours but I'm glad for the experience and the opportunities it opened up for the hardwork I put in.

 

[vi edit]

Again, it depends. I took a job to work at a start-up. I took a $15k cut in pay for more responsibility and more hours. There was a time I worked 13 weekends in a row on top of 10+ hour days. However, I learned and developed more skills than in any other job, helped the company go public and was able to take a 18 month sabbatical.

Imma go out on a limb and say that's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[AreaCode707]

My last two jobs I worked between 60 and 90 hours a week, and I wasn't far beyond the average. My latest job I'm working between 40 and 45 hours a week and I'm constantly worried that I'm underperforming compared to my coworkers. I'm hoping as my boss adds work that I can trim the time I'm spending on each task and keep my work hours as low as they are now (I've had the luxury of taking my time on what I'm doing now) but I do feel that the general expectation is 50 hours a week.

 

[DCal430]

The worker exploitation in the private industry is appalling. This is what happens when you get rid of unions. You have workers are are being turned into slaves.

 

[TheVrolok]

I'd take that in a heartbeat if offered.

It's funny, a prior manager I had was running a team meeting with just our very small team(around 7 people). He said that the company was asking for feedback on ways to improve morale and one suggestion was 4 x 10 days. His response to management was "Why would I do that? I already get 10 hour days out of them as it is. I'd be losing a day of productivity!"

He told us that half in jest, but it's also somewhat true for a number of people on my team. They just work, and work, and work, and work. And you wonder why they look so stressed and worn out.

I'd take 4 10's over 5 8's whenever possible. Hell, I'd prefer 3x12's and the occasional extra shift.

 

[alkemyst]

When salary you should be expecting to work a few 40+ hour weeks...when it's 60+ and expected weekly, fuck that noise.

I can pretty much work any time of the day I want...lately I been doing long Mon-Thursdays and just taking off Friday. 40-5 hours usually.

At 48 hours they are getting an extra day out of you...at 60 an extra two and a half. Those working more than 80 are helping perpetuate this. Spineless workers or those that can't get a better job.