What happened to 40-hour work weeks?

[techs]

Unions support substandard employees and breed laziness.

Regardless of what you think of them, without unions we would be back to no health insurance, no paid vacations, no pensions, no health and safety regulations and no 40 hour week. Unions also were able to keep jobs in America for many years due to influence over elected officials. Even government regulation of financial markets, with prevented more Great Depressions, were union influenced.

Without unions we also would have a middle class 95 percent less than it is now. And even the middle class would be wiped out every 15-20 years when the economy collapsed.

In fact, think China where we would have suicide nets in our factories.


As to your other complaints, we seem to have built pretty good quality shit during WW2 and our manufactured goods are still way above Chinese quality.

So, whatever you think of them, without them the American worker is screwed big time. And if you believe, as I do, that without the middle class America is screwed, then its the demise of unions that is the reason this country is in so much trouble.

 

[Oil]

I'm an engineer who works 40 hrs/week...when I'm in the office

 

[rudder]

no one works 40 hours/week anymore.

I have to really struggle to put in a 40 hour week.. meaning I have to come up with some lame excuse to fix some non existent problem for overtime.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Depend's on a company's culture, on the individual's job satisfaction and desire for career growth.

This.

At my current company, I have nowhere to move unless something drastic happens and our managing director left. Even then, I probably wouldn't get his position. So regardless if I work 40 hours or 100 hours, I am not going to get anything out of it at all. I'll get my work done and set realistic expectations for the groups I work with so I CAN work a 40 hour week.

At my last company, I busted my ass all the time and did work much longer hours. Sure, I got good pay raises and had sunshine blown up my butt by management all the time about "promotion opportunities," but it never happened and I decided it wasn't worth it. Instead, I got a life, got married, and said screw it. If I am going to work 60+ hours per week consistently, it will be for myself, not someone else.

 

[rudder]

Without unions we also would have a middle class 95 percent less than it is now. And even the middle class would be wiped out every 15-20 years when the economy collapsed.

As to your other complaints, we seem to have built pretty good quality shit during WW2 and our manufactured goods are still way above Chinese quality.

So, whatever you think of them, without them the American worker is screwed big time. And if you believe, as I do, that without the middle class America is screwed, then its the demise of unions that is the reason this country is in so much trouble.

I don't know about that. I live between two car plants. One is a GM plant, one is a Nissan plant. The GM plant has, since it opened in the 1980's, sucked hundreds of millions of dollars away from the Tennessee taxpayer... and is still asking for more. After a $400 million upgrade (where the state supplemented union workers salaries for 1.5 years)... the plant is now getting another upgrade (at taxpayer expense and after stopping all auto lines after the 1.5 year shutdown)... they are working with 1/4th the people just building engines... hoping GM will move another car line to the plant.

Meanwhile Nissan is humming along. The Nissan work force has rejected union leadership many times over the years. The county which is home to the Nissan plant is still one of the fastest growing counties in the United States. Fueled largely by Nissan.

The county where the GM plant sits... not so much.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yep. That's something I forgot to mention in my earlier post. You can usually try and skate by doing just 40, but if you have ambition and want to get ahead, there are lots of ways to get yourself noticed, and putting in time to get the job done is one of them.

And then again, it may not get you ahead. At my last company, I put in a lot of hours. I used to spend time on the weekends experimenting with new technologies/techniques or reading about new products which would help my company. I took a lot of pride in my work and always did extra to help my company. What did it get me in the end? It got me good raises and great reviews. When the corporation consolidated departments and eliminated my department, I was given a position in another department or the option to transfer to another state. That's it. No promotions, nothing. Of my time at the company, there was only one management position that opened at my location (it was also open to people working in New York) and I did apply for it, but I lost out to someone else.

Companies have a finite amount of positions and many are unwilling to invent new titles/responsibilities just to "promote" someone. In most cases, it really is about being at the right place at the right time. Keep in mind I am speaking from the perspective of a long-time IT employee so it may be much different in other industries.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Between all the different things I do I put in about 60-70 a week with weekends....


f*ck the man holding me down......

wait I work for myself...

:thumbsup: I would LOVE to work for myself. Maybe if my current plans pan out, I will in the next couple of years.

 

[Vette73]

I don't know about that. I live between two car plants. One is a GM plant, one is a Nissan plant. The GM plant has, since it opened in the 1980's, sucked hundreds of millions of dollars away from the Tennessee taxpayer... and is still asking for more. After a $400 million upgrade (where the state supplemented union workers salaries for 1.5 years)... the plant is now getting another upgrade (at taxpayer expense and after stopping all auto lines after the 1.5 year shutdown)... they are working with 1/4th the people just building engines... hoping GM will move another car line to the plant.

Meanwhile Nissan is humming along. The Nissan work force has rejected union leadership many times over the years. The county which is home to the Nissan plant is still one of the fastest growing counties in the United States. Fueled largely by Nissan.

The county where the GM plant sits... not so much.

Funny how you point out the tax breaks GM gets from TN but forget that TN gave a pile of money and breaks to Nissan to come to TN as well.

"To entice Nissan to Tennessee, the state is providing a tax-incentive package..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/10/business/10cnd-nissan.html

You can see that goes all the way back to 2005. TN still gives kickbacks... I mean "incentives" to Nissan to this day.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I do and so does my wife.

Guess we are not bitchs that lay down like other chumps that work for free.

It really does boil down to choices. Look, I understand we all have big projects and can have a few weeks a year where we work long hours. At my company, I used to function as the IT manager for our national convention and one of our other large events and that often meant 12 to 14 hour days for 10 days straight. Sometimes, you have to do that. I've since transferred to a new position and don't do those events anymore but I will have big projects this summer and anticipate a few weeks with long hours.

But if you're working those kinds of hours EVERY week, you need to look elsewhere. Any company that would force employees to work those kinds of hours is NOT a company you want to work for in the long-term, and anyone who seriously says they "enjoy" working 100 hrs/week doing audits, for example, is full of it and is just trying to rationalize their hours.

I don't mean to degrade anyone, but does it really seem fair that someone who digs ditches or something of that nature gets paid for EVERY hour worked while an engineer doesn't? Think about that for a moment -- whose time is worth more in reality? This is exactly why I am seriously considering going the consulting route once a couple of my near-term plans are realized, as I want to be paid for the time I work. Period.

 

[soulcougher73]

I work 40 in the engineering field. Im a drafter though on hourly so i get OT if i work it. But most engineers here also work 40 that ive seen (on average) Sure there are times when OT is in higher demand but its not a regular thing from what ive seen. They are salary but still get an hourly rate when they work OT. I get time and half, they just get time.

 

[Vette73]

It really does boil down to choices. Look, I understand we all have big projects and can have a few weeks a year where we work long hours. At my company, I used to function as the IT manager for our national convention and one of our other large events and that often meant 12 to 14 hour days for 10 days straight. Sometimes, you have to do that. I've since transferred to a new position and don't do those events anymore but I will have big projects this summer and anticipate a few weeks with long hours.

But if you're working those kinds of hours EVERY week, you need to look elsewhere. Any company that would force employees to work those kinds of hours is NOT a company you want to work for in the long-term, and anyone who seriously says they "enjoy" working 100 hrs/week doing audits, for example, is full of it and is just trying to rationalize their hours.

I don't mean to degrade anyone, but does it really seem fair that someone who digs ditches or something of that nature gets paid for EVERY hour worked while an engineer doesn't? Think about that for a moment -- whose time is worth more in reality? This is exactly why I am seriously considering going the consulting route once a couple of my near-term plans are realized, as I want to be paid for the time I work. Period.

:thumbsup:

I've worked longer hours before but it was rare and I usually got paid for it or something else, that is Private and public work. In fact I worked less hours per week in my last private job than I have with the Fed Gov.

My wife works at IBM and before she went to her new group the last one she would wake up in the middle of the night as someone got done with something and she had to go do her part next. Mind you when she left that group the manager said "you did not HAVE to work more than 40hrs a week..." BS line. She also got the your promotion is coming just keep working hard... BS for years till she left. She still gets her awards and people have tried to pull her to other teams. But she knows that will mean long hours with no more pay.

That and as someone said. When you retire will all those 45, 50, 50+ hr work weaks really mean anything to your life. Or will it just be wasted time you will never get back.

Work to live, not live to work.

 

[bignateyk]

I dunno. I work 40, and have the option to work 30 if I want for 75% of my salary + full benefits still. I might start doing that in a year or two. Would be nice to work 3 10 hour days a week for full benefits + 65K salary.

 

[vi edit]

I dunno. I work 40, and have the option to work 30 if I want for 75% of my salary + full benefits still. I might start doing that in a year or two. Would be nice to work 3 10 hour days a week for full benefits + 65K salary.

I'd take that in a heartbeat if offered.

It's funny, a prior manager I had was running a team meeting with just our very small team(around 7 people). He said that the company was asking for feedback on ways to improve morale and one suggestion was 4 x 10 days. His response to management was "Why would I do that? I already get 10 hour days out of them as it is. I'd be losing a day of productivity!"

He told us that half in jest, but it's also somewhat true for a number of people on my team. They just work, and work, and work, and work. And you wonder why they look so stressed and worn out.

 

[Triumph]

I'm an engineer, and I work 40 hour weeks. But then I work in Europe...

I also have around 8 weeks of vacation each year

Can I have a job?

 

[bignateyk]

I'd take that in a heartbeat if offered.

It's funny, a prior manager I had was running a team meeting with just our very small team(around 7 people). He said that the company was asking for feedback on ways to improve morale and one suggestion was 4 x 10 days. His response to management was "Why would I do that? I already get 10 hour days out of them as it is. I'd be losing a day of productivity!"

He told us that half in jest, but it's also somewhat true for a number of people on my team. They just work, and work, and work, and work. And you wonder why they look so stressed and worn out.

Yeah.. right now we are saving up to buy a new house and save a fund for when we have a baby. Once we are ready to have a baby though I think my wife and I might both drop to 30 hour weeks. (We both work at the same university). This way we could avoid day-care for the first couple years and also get to spend more time at home.

 

[vi edit]

I'm an engineer, and I work 40 hour weeks. But then I work in Europe...

I also have around 8 weeks of vacation each year

Isn't 40 hours like 25% more than the average Euro works a week?

 

[bignateyk]

Can I have a job?

You can get that in the US.

I work 40 hour weeks, get 7 weeks vacation, 3 weeks sick, 200% 401K match.

I also have the option to work 30 hour weeks with 75% pay while still retaining full benefits.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah.. right now we are saving up to buy a new house and save a fund for when we have a baby. Once we are ready to have a baby though I think my wife and I might both drop to 30 hour weeks. (We both work at the same university). This way we could avoid day-care for the first couple years and also get to spend more time at home.

:thumbsup:

If that was an available option for my wife and I we'd do that too.

 

[Juddog]

It's typically once you get a salaried position that you're expected to work 50+ hours. I found that as soon as my position switched from hourly to salaried, I had a pay increase that was pretty big, but the amount of work I was expected to do shot up quite a bit. Back when overtime paid extra (instead of unpaid overtime like my current position), they used to not want me to work extra hours regardless of how much work had to be done, because they didn't want to pay that extra cost.

 

[Gibson486]

You can get that in the US.

I work 40 hour weeks, get 7 weeks vacation, 3 weeks sick, 200% 401K match.

I also have the option to work 30 hour weeks with 75% pay while still retaining full benefits.

Where do you work? I am guessing it is not in industry?

edit:

Oh, you work in a university. That explains it. University benefits are awesome. My gf works at Havard. She only has to work 35 hours a week.

 

[Texashiker]

When I was 19, 20, 21, 22 years old I worked a massive amount of overtime. In a way I regret it, and in another way it was a good way to get lots of training. There were times when I did not get a day off for 4 - 6 weeks, working 12 hour shifts and 80+ hour weeks. There were lots of times when my weekly pay stub said 80 hours, 81 hours, 82 hours, 80 hours,,,, week after week.

When my second son was born, I had not had a day off in about a month. He was born on a thursday - I took that thursday, friday, saturday and sunday off, and was back at work on monday.

From the time my oldest kids were born, to the time they were 2 - 4 years old, I can not recall any real family time that we spent together. My schedule consisted of working night shift, get home between 2:30 - 4:30am, go to bed, get go around noon or 1pm, get shower, eat, go to work. There were times when I "might" have had 2 hours of family time a day.

But on the flip side, working 50 - 80 hours every week gave me a lot of training.

From 1994 - 1999 I had a couple of good jobs where we worked very little overtime. Sometimes we worked a saturday, but most of the time it was 4 x 10 hour days 4 days a week, of 5 x 8 hours a day.

Between late 1999 - late 2000 I had a terrible job where I worked 6 days a week and upwards towards 12 - 14 hours a day. That whole year is a blank. I hated that job.

2000 - 2002 I had a job that I was required to work "some" overtime - like 1 saturday a month. From a single saturday a month, I went to being on call for an entire weekend. Which meant I was working about 60 - 70 hours 1 week a month.

2003 - 2004, changed job went back to 50 hours 1 week, and 70 hours the next week. Not a whole lot of time with 4 or less days off a month.

2004 - 2011, currently work 36 - 40 hours a week. The company could not afford to give the employees a raise, so they cut our work week by 4 hours.

My goal is to work less then 40 hours a week. 32 hours would be ideal, but I am not there yet.

 

[ShawnD1]

I work 40 because my job is awesome!

There is no overtime but we are allowed to work extra to take longer vacations.

 

[evident]

I don't know about that. I live between two car plants. One is a GM plant, one is a Nissan plant. The GM plant has, since it opened in the 1980's, sucked hundreds of millions of dollars away from the Tennessee taxpayer... and is still asking for more. After a $400 million upgrade (where the state supplemented union workers salaries for 1.5 years)... the plant is now getting another upgrade (at taxpayer expense and after stopping all auto lines after the 1.5 year shutdown)... they are working with 1/4th the people just building engines... hoping GM will move another car line to the plant.

Meanwhile Nissan is humming along. The Nissan work force has rejected union leadership many times over the years. The county which is home to the Nissan plant is still one of the fastest growing counties in the United States. Fueled largely by Nissan.

The county where the GM plant sits... not so much.

i think that can also be attributed to the shitty management policies at GM as well. my opinions on unions are mixed. my experiences w/ unions have been positive, and the only example of shitty unions i see are the big ones like the UAW.

 

[TwiceOver]

7-4 no more unless there's a real issue. Sometimes less but Salary so whatever. When 4pm rolls around I'm generally pushing on the door to leave the building.

 

[Gibson486]

There are pros and cons to unions....

The cons, however, can be huge, so they get more spot light.