What drugs really cost you...

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

Gouging? It's supply and demand. We pay more for lots of things. We pay less for other things. Economics isn't about fairness or one's sense of entitlement.

It fries my ass that people in other states can and do buy the houses that I can't afford.

Don't worry, the pharmaceutical companies are not exactly HAPPY about having to provide cheap drugs to people in sub-saharan Africa.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The one thing that really gets me...is that in the face of rising insurance costs forcing many Americans do without insurance, the drug companies advertise their perscription products...the doctor should be the only one 'advertising' these.

...And I wonder who ends up picking up the tab for these additional TV advertisements?

OMG, a company advertises its products? Oh nooooooooooo they must be the devil!



:roll:

He's making a good point that there's no need for drug adverts. If you've got a problem, see your doctor. Your doctor will know what drugs to give you if drugs are necessary. It's not like you see a commercial and go "HOLY HELL I'm gonna get Clymidia so I can go to the doctor and get those cool drugs I saw on TV!"

There is no need for car adverts. If you want a new car, go to the dealer and see what he has for sale.
There is no need for candy bar ads. Just go to the convenience store and look at the rack.
There is no need for movie promos. Just go to the theater and ask the pre-pubescent surly teen at the counter what new movie RAWKS!

You don't need a prescription (required doctor visit) to buy a car, or candy bars, or go to the movies.

You need a driver's license to operate a car. Maybe we should all go to the DMV to see what kind of car is right for us.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The one thing that really gets me...is that in the face of rising insurance costs forcing many Americans do without insurance, the drug companies advertise their perscription products...the doctor should be the only one 'advertising' these.

...And I wonder who ends up picking up the tab for these additional TV advertisements?

OMG, a company advertises its products? Oh nooooooooooo they must be the devil!



:roll:

He's making a good point that there's no need for drug adverts. If you've got a problem, see your doctor. Your doctor will know what drugs to give you if drugs are necessary. It's not like you see a commercial and go "HOLY HELL I'm gonna get Clymidia so I can go to the doctor and get those cool drugs I saw on TV!"

There is no need for car adverts. If you want a new car, go to the dealer and see what he has for sale.
There is no need for candy bar ads. Just go to the convenience store and look at the rack.
There is no need for movie promos. Just go to the theater and ask the pre-pubescent surly teen at the counter what new movie RAWKS!

You don't need a prescription (required doctor visit) to buy a car, or candy bars, or go to the movies.

You need a driver's license to operate a car. Maybe we should all go to the DMV to see what kind of car is right for us.

Nope. Driver's licenses come in classes that allow you to drive any vehicle in that class. Try again!

 

[z0mb13]

what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The one thing that really gets me...is that in the face of rising insurance costs forcing many Americans do without insurance, the drug companies advertise their perscription products...the doctor should be the only one 'advertising' these.

...And I wonder who ends up picking up the tab for these additional TV advertisements?

OMG, a company advertises its products? Oh nooooooooooo they must be the devil!



:roll:

He's making a good point that there's no need for drug adverts. If you've got a problem, see your doctor. Your doctor will know what drugs to give you if drugs are necessary. It's not like you see a commercial and go "HOLY HELL I'm gonna get Clymidia so I can go to the doctor and get those cool drugs I saw on TV!"

There is no need for car adverts. If you want a new car, go to the dealer and see what he has for sale.
There is no need for candy bar ads. Just go to the convenience store and look at the rack.
There is no need for movie promos. Just go to the theater and ask the pre-pubescent surly teen at the counter what new movie RAWKS!

You don't need a prescription (required doctor visit) to buy a car, or candy bars, or go to the movies.

You need a driver's license to operate a car. Maybe we should all go to the DMV to see what kind of car is right for us.

Nope. Driver's licenses come in classes that allow you to drive any vehicle in that class. Try again!

wow - your repsonse was even dumber than mine!

edit: try going to a cardiologist and getting some allergy medication...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The one thing that really gets me...is that in the face of rising insurance costs forcing many Americans do without insurance, the drug companies advertise their perscription products...the doctor should be the only one 'advertising' these.

...And I wonder who ends up picking up the tab for these additional TV advertisements?

OMG, a company advertises its products? Oh nooooooooooo they must be the devil!



:roll:

He's making a good point that there's no need for drug adverts. If you've got a problem, see your doctor. Your doctor will know what drugs to give you if drugs are necessary. It's not like you see a commercial and go "HOLY HELL I'm gonna get Clymidia so I can go to the doctor and get those cool drugs I saw on TV!"

There is no need for car adverts. If you want a new car, go to the dealer and see what he has for sale.
There is no need for candy bar ads. Just go to the convenience store and look at the rack.
There is no need for movie promos. Just go to the theater and ask the pre-pubescent surly teen at the counter what new movie RAWKS!

You have to go to the doctor anyway in order to get the perscription in the first place. It is the doctors job to match your medical history with the drug, to know which drug is right for you and which might cause complications. To tell you the side effects. You HAVE to go see the doctor for this. All of your examples are luxuries...if I'm having a heart attack, I'm not going to think "Well, that libitor ad sounded pretty good...maybe I should go get that" I'm going to go to the doctor and he's going to TELL ME what to do.

But I suppose all the money spent on that clariton ad...the one with all the clouds and happy people that says "Ask your doctor about clariton" with no explaination WHATSOEVER what the drug was suppose to treat or what it did was money well spent wasn't it? I'm sure everyone who actually went to the doctor and was perscibed clariton was real happy that it cost X dollars more so everyone else could go "WTF was that?" when the commercial came on.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The one thing that really gets me...is that in the face of rising insurance costs forcing many Americans do without insurance, the drug companies advertise their perscription products...the doctor should be the only one 'advertising' these.

...And I wonder who ends up picking up the tab for these additional TV advertisements?

OMG, a company advertises its products? Oh nooooooooooo they must be the devil!



:roll:

He's making a good point that there's no need for drug adverts. If you've got a problem, see your doctor. Your doctor will know what drugs to give you if drugs are necessary. It's not like you see a commercial and go "HOLY HELL I'm gonna get Clymidia so I can go to the doctor and get those cool drugs I saw on TV!"

There is no need for car adverts. If you want a new car, go to the dealer and see what he has for sale.
There is no need for candy bar ads. Just go to the convenience store and look at the rack.
There is no need for movie promos. Just go to the theater and ask the pre-pubescent surly teen at the counter what new movie RAWKS!

You don't need a prescription (required doctor visit) to buy a car, or candy bars, or go to the movies.

You need a driver's license to operate a car. Maybe we should all go to the DMV to see what kind of car is right for us.

Nope. Driver's licenses come in classes that allow you to drive any vehicle in that class. Try again!

wow - your repsonse was even dumber than mine!

edit: try going to a cardiologist and getting some allergy medication...

A cardiologist wouldn't waste his time when the nurse who sees you first realizes that you're looking for alergy medication.

Try again.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

haha - exactly!

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

not necessarily, but you do not go from the test tube to pregnant mothers... There are always animals involved along the way.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

What? You think they do their first studies in humans???

Also, don't forget advertising and marketing.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

Yep. That's the cost of discovery. Don't like it? Don't buy it. You are not entitled to the work product of another, nor are you entitled to set the price for it.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

What? You think they do their first studies in humans???

No, but I didn't think specifically dogs only.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

lol..

Maybe if the drug effects a certain system that is similar to humans' in dogs or something. We use all sorts of animals in the name of research. It shouldn't really be a surprise anymore, heh.

We're top of the food chain. We'll eat them, dissect them, keep them as pets, and use them for research. Shrug.

 

[Electric Amish]

No, but I didn't think specifically dogs only.

Well, that's what we use.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

Yep. That's the cost of discovery. Don't like it? Don't buy it. You are not entitled to the work product of another, nor are you entitled to set the price for it.

I know. I don't use drugs other than the occasional excedrine -unless it's spring/summer. Then I pop any alergy medication that I can afford.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

Let's put this in terms you're familiar with.

Let's say I want to buy something for my bike. I want a carbon fiber bike frame.

How much will that cost me? I can buy a bag of charcoal for $5, two bags should cover it right?

I'll be generous & hand you a $20 & tell you to keep the change.

When can we meet to arrange this deal?

Oh, part of that $20 I want you to build the bike for me too. I'll throw in another $20 for the rest of the parts.

Viper GTS

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
No, but I didn't think specifically dogs only.

Various animals are used. Not all are used for every drug.

The list includes:
mice
rats
rabbits
cats
dogs
pigs
monkeys

tests are also done on human tissue cultures

 

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

Yes! The drug companies need consumers to cover R&D costs whether they succeed or not. Afterall, as has been stated they have only one reason to exist, and it is NOT to provide subsidized cheap drugs to consumers. It is to make money!

People really need to open a damn beginner's economics book!

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: z0mb13
what the email is not showing is the cost of developing a new drug, and the HUGE risk factor associated with it.

in order for a drug to gain FDA approval it needs to go thorugh these phases:
preclinical, clinical (3 clinical phases), then it goes to market

so in any of these testing phases, a drug CAN fail, and the risk is quite high..
I think only 1 in 5000 drugs actually goes to market. and even if a drug goes to market, it might still tank (not profitable)

the US has an amazing research on drugs, and they have to pay for this research somehow..

often times, drug companies make their money from a single drug, and they use this extra money to fund research for other drugs..

So I have to pay for some dumbass's mistakes failing miserably 4999 times before he gets it right?

Yes! The drug companies need consumers to cover R&D costs whether they succeed or not. Afterall, as has been stated they have only one reason to exist, and it is NOT to provide subsidized cheap drugs to consumers. It is to make money!

People really need to open a damn beginner's economics book!

I've never taken a single econ class, although I'm told I should.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

Let's put this in terms you're familiar with.

Let's say I want to buy something for my bike. I want a carbon fiber bike frame.

How much will that cost me? I can buy a bag of charcoal for $5, two bags should cover it right?

I'll be generous & hand you a $20 & tell you to keep the change.

When can we meet to arrange this deal?

Oh, part of that $20 I want you to build the bike for me too. I'll throw in another $20 for the rest of the parts.

Viper GTS

Yeah, but that same carbon fiber frame isn't gonna cost you .50 in Mexico....

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

Let's put this in terms you're familiar with.

Let's say I want to buy something for my bike. I want a carbon fiber bike frame.

How much will that cost me? I can buy a bag of charcoal for $5, two bags should cover it right?

Viper GTS

Exactly.

Now for drugs, especially scheduled drugs you have to get licensed by the DEA, that costs money.
You have to have a controlled vault. That costs money.
You have to have the equipment to produce the pills. (one tablet press can easily cost over $1million)
You have to have the equipment to package the pills.
You have to have the equipment to test the pills. (HPLC = $80k each, LCMS and GCMS are even more)
You have to have the people to run all this equipment.
You have to have a building to house all this stuff.

It goes on and on...

Our company existed for over 15 years before making a profit, living off investor money.

 

Who cares about thoes drugs.

What about the mark up on GOOD drugs?