What drugs really cost you...

[GasX]

Originally posted by: samgau
How about this interpretation:

It cost $5 to manufacture and distribute the Drug
The pharmacy charges $40 for the Drug, since the insurance can pay that much
It costs $15 at Cosco but you only have $10 in your pocket,
so you hike your @$$ to Canada and buy it there for $7 cause there is some sort of fair pricing
then you come back in the US and the Gov sticks you in jail cause you're traficking
So whats better, you dead or you in jail cause you had the nerve to go elsewhere to get it huh?

Thats what it is going to come to if the pham industry has its way with the gov. and with Bush there it probably will...

Assuming your example is correct, then go picket the pharmacies and leave the manufacturers alone...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: iliopsoas
on average, it costs in the neighborhood of $500M to go from the process of drug discovery to final product. Most biotech companies don't succeed.

So the price of prescription drugs reflect these high initial capital expenditures.

Thanks - we hadn't established that in the first 96 posts...

ROFL :laugh:

:thumbsup::beer:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

Let's put this in terms you're familiar with.

Let's say I want to buy something for my bike. I want a carbon fiber bike frame.

How much will that cost me? I can buy a bag of charcoal for $5, two bags should cover it right?

I'll be generous & hand you a $20 & tell you to keep the change.

When can we meet to arrange this deal?

Oh, part of that $20 I want you to build the bike for me too. I'll throw in another $20 for the rest of the parts.

Viper GTS

How about this interpretation:

It cost $5 to manufacture and distribute the Drug
The pharmacy charges $40 for the Drug, since the insurance can pay that much
It costs $15 at Cosco but you only have $10 in your pocket,
so you hike your @$$ to Canada and buy it there for $7 cause there is some sort of fair pricing
then you come back in the US and the Gov sticks you in jail cause you're traficking
So whats better, you dead or you in jail cause you had the nerve to go elsewhere to get it huh?

Thats what it is going to come to if the pham industry has its way with the gov. and with Bush there it probably will...

Since I see two sides for this, and don't believe it's an either or situation

It costs 5 bucks to get the drug on the pharmacy shelf.

The pharmacy pays 40 dollars for that bottle of drug, and gets paid 41 dollars because that it all the insurance company will give them.

Someone goes into a drug store with 10 bucks and gets a different drug because he isnt going to get a 40 dollar drug from Costco or anyone else for 10 bucks.

He may opt to go to Canada and get medication for less since Canada is subsidizing the cost of meds and has the power to negoiate drug prices, which BTW pharmacies cannot collectively do since it is a violation of anti trust laws.

No one gets thrown in jail for buying meds in Canada.

 

[Vic]

How is it that no one noticed that none of those drugs listed are for a life-threatening disease? That none of them are "cures"?

I see anti-depressants, anti-anxieties, antibiotics, blood pressure controllers, allergy medications, heartburn pills, and cholesterol inhibitors. Except for the antibiotics, none of these are even remotely "lifesaving", none are cures, and none are really necessary, as a healthier diet and lifestyle could provide the same (or better) effect. But hey, take an expensive pill instead of fixing your life, and then bitch about the cost and try to get everyone else to pay for it for you...

Some of you people are very strange... and very wrong...

 

[dabuddha]

You know those prices aren't very accurate to begin with, don't you?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dabuddha
You know those prices aren't very accurate to begin with, don't you?

I'm sure it's been passed around quite a bit. I'm sure drug prices have changed since it's original release.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: samgau
How about this interpretation:

It cost $5 to manufacture and distribute the Drug
The pharmacy charges $40 for the Drug, since the insurance can pay that much
It costs $15 at Cosco but you only have $10 in your pocket,
so you hike your @$$ to Canada and buy it there for $7 cause there is some sort of fair pricing
then you come back in the US and the Gov sticks you in jail cause you're traficking
So whats better, you dead or you in jail cause you had the nerve to go elsewhere to get it huh?

Thats what it is going to come to if the pham industry has its way with the gov. and with Bush there it probably will...

Assuming your example is correct, then go picket the pharmacies and leave the manufacturers alone...

It isn't correct. Pharmacies do not tell insurance companies how much they will get paid, insurance companies tell the pharmacies how much they will get. Many insurance companies are reimbursing below actual acquisition. Pharmacies have become a loss leader taking what they can for the sake of traffic in the rest of the store. You will notice there are not many independent pharmacies left. This is not because of competition, but rather dictated by the below cost reimbursments of Big Blue etc.

 

[samgau]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

:roll:

No one is screwing you but yourself. "Corporate America" owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing. You are not entitled to it's goods, and it is not entitled to your money. As soon as you realize this, you'll stop acting like a victim.

You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

 

[samgau]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

define screwed...

let me guess, you think that profit is evil and that we should all be good little socialists and stick to the 5 year plan...

There is profit and profit.... why does the same drugs in canada cost 1/3 what they do here.... do you sincerely think the drugs are better here... tell that to the 70 yr old retireree on a fixed income who has to choose between drugs and food....

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
400 mil to get the FDA to approve the drug?? What, so drug companies buy approval? Is that how the FDA works!?

No, dumbass. The cost of the paperwork and process hoops the FDA requires a manufacturer to jump through to get approval.

Dog studies
Clinical trials
Efficacy trials
Phamacokinetics trials
Safety trials
Doctor and patient testimonials
etc, etc....

Dog studies? It's actually required to test on dogs??

It's obvious you have no freaking clue what you're talking about.

Yes, the drug candidates get tested on animals.

Here's how it works.

1. Researchers identify a compound that may have some therapeutic effect based on existing science and theories
2. The compound is tested in vitro (test tubes type of work)
3. Compound is tested in animals (rats, dogs, etc). If the compound shows some promise, then it'll proceed to human trials.
4. Phase I trials (tested on humans from this point onward)
5. Phase II trials
6. Phase III trials
7. New drug application to the FDA
8. FDA approval
9. After-market studies and analysis (not all side-effects and adverse reactions are detected in the previous trials. Some deadly reactions are only detected after widespread use)

It's very very very expensive to bring a drug to market. Most fail. Drug companies will have to try many times before they find a successful drug. It's risky and expensive.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: samgau
You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Oh yeah, I forgot. The best healthcare in the world is a right. All those doctors and nurses and paramedics and pharmacists and scientists went to school for years and years so that your lazy ass broke neighbor can get his boil lanced for free...

 

[samgau]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: samgau
You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Oh yeah, I forgot. The best healthcare in the world is a right. All those doctors and nurses and paramedics and pharmacists and scientists went to school for years and years so that your lazy ass broke neighbor can get his boil lanced for free...

So according to you the doctors/nurses/paramedics/scientists in other countries do NOT go to school, right...
Now about the healthcare industry, what about the 40+ million americans who cannot afford it.... come on say it with me... 40 million... thats your neighbor, the kid who goes to school with yours, and what happens when they get sick, they pass it on to you because they couldn't go to the hospital or the doc to get it checked...

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: samgau
You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Oh yeah, I forgot. The best healthcare in the world is a right. All those doctors and nurses and paramedics and pharmacists and scientists went to school for years and years so that your lazy ass broke neighbor can get his boil lanced for free...

So according to you the doctors/nurses/paramedics/scientists in other countries do NOT go to school, right...
Now about the healthcare industry, what about the 40+ million americans who cannot afford it.... come on say it with me... 40 million... thats your neighbor, the kid who goes to school with yours, and what happens when they get sick, they pass it on to you because they couldn't go to the hospital or the doc to get it checked...

40 million people can't afford a visit to the doctor? Do they have cell phones and cable tv and automobiles? Perhaps they prioritize poorly...

 

[samgau]

Come on... the average american probably could not afford the healthcare costs if their employer didn't cover most of it... let alone for an average family with more members than number of incomes... Now I have no pity for those to prefer to spend on luxuries than on healthcare...

 

[Zenmervolt]

The vast, vast majority of drugs fail. The companies put literally billions of dollars into R&D for drugs that never make it to the market. The reason that drugs are so expensive is because a very small percentage of drugs need to recoup the losses incurred by all the drugs that don't end up getting produced.

ZV

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The vast, vast majority of drugs fail. The companies put literally billions of dollars into R&D for drugs that never make it to the market. The reason that drugs are so expensive is because a very small percentage of drugs need to recoup the losses incurred by all the drugs that don't end up getting produced.

ZV

Thanks - we hadn't considered that yet

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Vic
How is it that no one noticed that none of those drugs listed are for a life-threatening disease? That none of them are "cures"?

I see anti-depressants, anti-anxieties, antibiotics, blood pressure controllers, allergy medications, heartburn pills, and cholesterol inhibitors. Except for the antibiotics, none of these are even remotely "lifesaving", none are cures, and none are really necessary, as a healthier diet and lifestyle could provide the same (or better) effect. But hey, take an expensive pill instead of fixing your life, and then bitch about the cost and try to get everyone else to pay for it for you...

Some of you people are very strange... and very wrong...

You get struck down with a case of depression or some type of anxiety, you'll see how fvckin life-saving these pills can be.

:|

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The vast, vast majority of drugs fail. The companies put literally billions of dollars into R&D for drugs that never make it to the market. The reason that drugs are so expensive is because a very small percentage of drugs need to recoup the losses incurred by all the drugs that don't end up getting produced.

ZV

Thanks - we hadn't considered that yet

ROFL

 

[LuNoTiCK]

What I'm interested in knowing is where can I get the drugs for cheap. What pharmacies probably online would be best to get them cheap?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

:roll:

No one is screwing you but yourself. "Corporate America" owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing. You are not entitled to it's goods, and it is not entitled to your money. As soon as you realize this, you'll stop acting like a victim.

You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Of course they don't. It's not their job to take care of you. That is YOUR job. If you fail and die, tough sh!t. They are a company who's sole reason for existing is to make money. Not to give you security. You are no more entitled to their work product than I am entitled to your work product. There will ALWAYS be someone more needy than you. Does that make them entitled to your work product? Of course not. You'd be screaming about oppression and thieves if someone took your work product without paying you, yet you expect drug companies to do just that.

Quit with the altruism bullsh!t. Altruism does not exist. Never has, and never will. Get over it and move on with your life.

A perfect Ayn Rand quote for you:

"Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone's altar nor for anyone's cause - life is not one huge hospital."

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Vic
How is it that no one noticed that none of those drugs listed are for a life-threatening disease? That none of them are "cures"?

I see anti-depressants, anti-anxieties, antibiotics, blood pressure controllers, allergy medications, heartburn pills, and cholesterol inhibitors. Except for the antibiotics, none of these are even remotely "lifesaving", none are cures, and none are really necessary, as a healthier diet and lifestyle could provide the same (or better) effect. But hey, take an expensive pill instead of fixing your life, and then bitch about the cost and try to get everyone else to pay for it for you...

Some of you people are very strange... and very wrong...

You obviously never have suffered from Chronic Depression.

Sysadmin

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Sysadmin

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

:roll:

No one is screwing you but yourself. "Corporate America" owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing. You are not entitled to it's goods, and it is not entitled to your money. As soon as you realize this, you'll stop acting like a victim.

Then why doesn't the damn government allow you to purchase drugs through Canada so we don't have to get raped with outrageous costs? If the government is not entitled to my money?!??!

Sysadmin

Because the nanny-state can't ensure the quality of those drugs. But that's another issue. The main issue here is you are not entitled to the work product of another... even if it means your death. Your life and lack of an ability to pay for preserving it should not make others slaves.

When people argue for freedom, ask yourself, are they asking for freedom for the wolves or the sheep. Lincoln would have found this all very interesting.

Does it matter? What makes a man a wolf or a sheep? His ability to succeed financially or lack thereof? Your question, and point, is irrelevant.

 

[samgau]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

:roll:

No one is screwing you but yourself. "Corporate America" owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing. You are not entitled to it's goods, and it is not entitled to your money. As soon as you realize this, you'll stop acting like a victim.

You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Of course they don't. It's not their job to take care of you. That is YOUR job. If you fail and die, tough sh!t. They are a company who's sole reason for existing is to make money. Not to give you security. You are no more entitled to their work product than I am entitled to your work product. There will ALWAYS be someone more needy than you. Does that make them entitled to your work product? Of course not. You'd be screaming about oppression and thieves if someone took your work product without paying you, yet you expect drug companies to do just that.

Quit with the altruism bullsh!t. Altruism does not exist. Never has, and never will. Get over it and move on with your life.

A perfect Ayn Rand quote for you:

"Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone's altar nor for anyone's cause - life is not one huge hospital."

There is a difference between blatent abuse of the system and fair use of it. Nobody is asking the drug companies to work for free, yet nobody is making sure that they aren't raping the public, which is what they are doing.

And if you believe altruism doesnt exist then feel sorry for you.... and as far as that little quote... pretty words... but only meaningful for those who've actually lived through all that. Have you?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: samgau

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Well as one who has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, and NO HELP in BUYING drugs, it fries my ass that people in other countries in basically the same situation CAN and DO get drugs that I can't afford.

So it's OK for the drug companies to gouge Americans since most have insurance that can pay?
And as for those who can't, fvck'em? Also, just because the insurance companies pay, doesn't mean the costs aren't deferred by higher insurance costs!:roll:

I understand your anger, but keep in mind you live in America. This is a country that gives you opportunties that don't exist anywhere else. Is there a catch? Of course, things are more expensive here...

There is a difference between the land of opportunity and getting screwed at every turn by corporate america....

:roll:

No one is screwing you but yourself. "Corporate America" owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing. You are not entitled to it's goods, and it is not entitled to your money. As soon as you realize this, you'll stop acting like a victim.

You're still paying for health insurance are you not... What happens to your neighbor who doesnt have health insurance, do you think he can get proper health care.... corporate america doesnt care about you or your neighbor... just your money....

Of course they don't. It's not their job to take care of you. That is YOUR job. If you fail and die, tough sh!t. They are a company who's sole reason for existing is to make money. Not to give you security. You are no more entitled to their work product than I am entitled to your work product. There will ALWAYS be someone more needy than you. Does that make them entitled to your work product? Of course not. You'd be screaming about oppression and thieves if someone took your work product without paying you, yet you expect drug companies to do just that.

Quit with the altruism bullsh!t. Altruism does not exist. Never has, and never will. Get over it and move on with your life.

A perfect Ayn Rand quote for you:

"Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone's altar nor for anyone's cause - life is not one huge hospital."

There is a difference between blatent abuse of the system and fair use of it. Nobody is asking the drug companies to work for free, yet nobody is making sure that they aren't raping the public, which is what they are doing.

And if you believe altruism doesnt exist then feel sorry for you.... and as far as that little quote... pretty words... but only meaningful for those who've actually lived through all that. Have you?

Why yes, I have lived in poverty. In fact, I've been homeless and a drug addict. But that is irrelevant.

You can only be abused if you choose to be abused. They no more OWE you a drug at a "fair" price than I get to set the price of your work product. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
1. that doesn't factor in the cost of the process to turn those raw materials into drugs.
2. that doesn't factor in the requirement to recoup the $400 million dollars it took to get the FDA to approve the drug.
3. $400 million

So.

explain to me why the same drug by the same company is cheaper in other countries?