What does the Bible say about Israel and War?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Thanks PSY, but I need that in English, not incomprehensible metaphor.

Impossible. All of Revelations is in metaphor and was (supposedly) done so on purpose, as it was written during a time when Christians were persecuted and lived in hiding. Anyway, you don't think God would just tell us the exact circumstances, time and date of the End of the World, do you?
As Rev 13:18 says, "Let him that hath understanding... "

 

[Moonbeam]

Nitemare, get a lesson in thinking.

Self preservation is good enough for me (I killed him, Your Honor, because I could see in his eye that he wanted to kill me. It was self preservation. Death by lethal injection, next)


and yes your Bush bashing is getting old. (have pity on poor nitemares nerves, he can't stand to hear the truth all the time) Gore can go join his old buddy Reno in Floriduh and count some more votes..who knows he might find some more votes that will give him the election. You know in the amount of time since the election he has probably experted the art of chad counting. (The recount was done, Gore won)

Gore's a loser, so is Reno. Get way over it Moonie. (Gore won)

If it wasn't for the liberalist Arab heiny kissing UN, we would not have all this bruhaha. When you start having to break out the magnifying glass and try to decipher the cryptics teachings of people 2000 years ago, you are clutching at straws... (I'm afraid those cryptic teachings, far from being irrelevant, are studied with magnifying glasses by just the people to whom I refer and is very much a living component of their thinking right now this minute. Get real.)

Bottom line is Saddam is a cryptic totalitarian dictator who is a waste of a perfectly good bullet (That means nothing with regards to the argument but certainly could indicate why you know nothing about the Bible)

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm not asking for time and dates. I was asking how the destruction of Israel by the Arabs would affect Biblical prophecy? Would it be a contradiction to what was foretold? Golly, wasn't that obvious?

 

[ToBeMe]

ToBeMe, your bipartisan post is irrelevant because, right or wrong, it has nothing to do with what motivates Bush.

No, beamer, you are most definately wrong because it not only shapes what the White House thinks, it also shapes what the country thinks and what other countries think. Bush knows he has the backing of both houses and this is why he can be so insistant with his demands. The approval of congress (or even knowledge that they will approve) will also determine how many other countries and the UN react to Iraq.............to ignore or dismiss these facts is utterly stupid as they are proven facts!

 

[thebestMAX]

Which bible or version thereof ????

 

[Stark]

In order to secure it's existence Israel has committed grave injustice against another people of the Book.

Mohammed originally called Jews and Christians people of the Book. He later changed his mind and said they had corrupted the message God (Allah) had given them. Neither Jews nor Christians accept the Koran as a divine revelation from God, so the injustice as you state it is only from a Muslim POV.

Modern Christian eschatological teaching is that many countries will soon attack Israel but they be miraculously (and divinely) saved from such attack. This will be surrounded by the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the rapture of the Church (where those with faith in Christ will be taken up into heaven), the rise of the anti-christ (a powerful world leader who unites the world for a time of peace) before all-Hell breaks out (literally). The order of these events depends on which teacher or church you listen to.

While it is true that many fundamentalist Christians support Israel because of the Bible, the US has more interest in ensuring the survival of the Nation apart from fulfilling ancient prophecies. First, it is the only real Democracy in the Middle East. Second, it is a nuclear power. Third, it is relatively tolerant of different religions. Finally, it is the only modernized, first-world country amidst many third world countries (despite wealth from oil). Generally, Israel is the country the most ?like us? in the entire Middle-East. Add in the holocaust and the need for a Jewish homeland and it seems clear why we are supporting them.

Now, as to why Bush is so hell-bent of attacking Iraq... I have no clue. It has little to nothing to do with anything in the Bible... unless Bush Jr. is actually the anti-christ leading us head-long into the apocalypse.

I personally think it's a matter of family pride.

 

[CantedValve]

Is the view good from the cheap seats? Where do you get this crap?

1. The economy isn't failing (as evidenced by the decreaseing unemployment and growth experienced all year long). Any "depression" in the economy was well set in before BUsh took office, and has ended long ago.
2. The only ones interested in protecting oil are the Saudi's. They have the most to loose from an oil supply in the hands of a free Iraq.
3. Wag the dog? Come on... you must be joking.
4. Revenge for what? Whatever happened to doing the RIGHT THING. You cannot for a second with a straight face claim Saddam is NOT building up WMD, gasing his own people, and consorting with terrorists. Oh, he has violated UN weapons resolutions for over 10 years too... but that probably means nothing right?


Were you this anti-US when Clinton wanted to invade in 1998? For or against? What has changed since 1998? If the case could be made in 1998, can the situation be any better now?

Bush is in control. He knows exactly what he is doing. Just because he hasn't consulted with you...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
ffm could I get the readers digest version?

The Presence, I didn't see you toe. Sorry I stepped on it. Your point, true or false, and I ain't interested in arguing it here, has no effect either way on the general suggestion.

ToBeMe, your bipartisan post is irrelevant because, right or wrong, it has nothing to do with what motivates Bush.

Thanks PSY, but I need that in English, not incomprehensible metaphor.

Basically, the antichrist makes a peace agreement with the middle east. The agreement is for seven years, but it gets broken 3.5 years into it and all hell breaks loose - literally. It's called the Tribulation.

nik

 

[CantedValve]

I'm not asking for time and dates. I was asking how the destruction of Israel by the Arabs would affect Biblical prophecy? Would it be a contradiction to what was foretold? Golly, wasn't that obvious?

Actually no... it isn't obvious what you are asking. You spent the whole post slamming Bush on Iraq... If you were asking that question, you would have posted it as you wrote it above. In fact, I thought you had mislabeled your post. You FINALLY get somewhere around the question at the bottom.

Could you not ask the question without bringing our President into it? Would have been a lot simpler and you might have gotten the answer to the question you say you were asking.

If you are really concerned what the Bible has to say, read it. Read it has a historical document if you do not want to read it as a spiritual document.

 

[Moonbeam]

Hehe, thebest, you devil, I'm not going there.

ToBe, What's your problem? It's not difficult. Yes yes you are right. Bipartisanship is important. It affects people's thinking. I want to punch you in the nose. Everybody in the room says do it, do it. It can affect my decision. But I'm talking about motive, Get the difference? What form of insanity am I suffering from that I want to pop you in the nose?

 

[Moonbeam]

Here it is again, Canted, obvious as can be:

"And that is my question. Are we going to attack Iraq because the Bush administration is full of fundamentalist Christians whose real allegiance is not to the US but to a higher power? It occurred to me that Israel will fail in the course of time under present trends. Is that contrary to Biblical prophesy and are we getting involved to make sure the Bible isn't wrong, or surely as some might think because it's God's will? I get the feeling the administration might not want to announce that fact if it were the case. What does the Bible predict about the future. I don't know much about it."

You should read the Syntopicon. It will help you to think.

 

[thebestMAX]

The Reverened Moonbeam said:
Hehe, thebest, you devil, I'm not going there.

 

[Stark]

Q: "And that is my question. Are we going to attack Iraq because the Bush administration is full of fundamentalist Christians whose real allegiance is not to the US but to a higher power?
A: No

Q: It occurred to me that Israel will fail in the course of time under present trends. Is that contrary to Biblical prophesy and are we getting involved to make sure the Bible isn't wrong, or surely as some might think because it's God's will?
A: Yes it is against teachings from the Bible. It also fails to take into account the fact that Israel is a very powerful nation with nukes.

Statement: I get the feeling the administration might not want to announce that fact if it were the case.
Observation: Why would the Bush administration make any announcement that any country will "fail in the course of time under present trends." That's like saying "under present trends, eventually everyone on earth will be Chinese or Indian. Europeans will be extinct soon."

Q: What does the Bible predict about the future. I don't know much about it."
A: See above

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nitemare, get a lesson in thinking.

Self preservation is good enough for me (I killed him, Your Honor, because I could see in his eye that he wanted to kill me. It was self preservation. Death by lethal injection, next)


and yes your Bush bashing is getting old. (have pity on poor nitemares nerves, he can't stand to hear the truth all the time) Gore can go join his old buddy Reno in Floriduh and count some more votes..who knows he might find some more votes that will give him the election. You know in the amount of time since the election he has probably experted the art of chad counting. (The recount was done, Gore won)

Gore's a loser, so is Reno. Get way over it Moonie. (Gore won)

Umm, no he didn't win. According to the constitution he indeed lost by loosing the electorial college. Sorry to hand you the facts though. Also he lost the recounts that was done in Florida. Also taking into account the popular votes, if they were recounted. The votes are still so close that computing errors may have even switched the majority to Bush even then. Thats why the electorial college was set in place, to balance out the inaccurate counting of millions of votes individually.

 

[Moonbeam]

Stark, what the Bush admin. would not want to make public is that the attack on Iraq is intended to assure the Biblical predictions by making sure Israel's enemies don't get strong enough to finish her, nukes or not.

I would like a bit more than your assurance that the Bible says I'm on target. What does The Book say?

Chadder, you are completely mistaken about the actual vote count. What you read in the press was a cover-up of the real fact that Gore got the total majority in the whole state. There were many counts and many ways to count. The one I'm taking about is the count of the sum of all legal ballots whose intent could be seen and counting all counties which showed Gore as the winner. That's why Bush at every legal turn tried to stop the ballot count. They knew the truth. Imagine a great American saying, No no no, please, please don't count the vote. Stop the vote count.

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hehe, thebest, you devil, I'm not going there.

ToBe, What's your problem? It's not difficult. Yes yes you are right. Bipartisanship is important. It affects people's thinking. I want to punch you in the nose. Everybody in the room says do it, do it. It can affect my decision. But I'm talking about motive, Get the difference? What form of insanity am I suffering from that I want to pop you in the nose?

No, what's yours???? Yours does seem to be difficult when you speak in riddles and cloud issues. You are fishing for something in this thread to make another point obviously.

As far as motive, the motive is the fact that Saddam is a threat. He clearly violates every agrement he enters into and has admitted developement, manufacturing, and use of Chemical, biological, and soon (according to recent attempts at purchasing) Nuclear. Even the inspectors stated he was no more than one year away from a nuclear device when they entered Iraq originally. He has also stated that he would not hesitate to use such weapons in order to fullfill his self described "destiny"......................

As for your final riddle.....................you are an odd duck.....................insane I'm not sure but fascinating and entertaining to say the least.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nitemare, get a lesson in thinking.

Self preservation is good enough for me (I killed him, Your Honor, because I could see in his eye that he wanted to kill me. It was self preservation. Death by lethal injection, next)


and yes your Bush bashing is getting old. (have pity on poor nitemares nerves, he can't stand to hear the truth all the time) Gore can go join his old buddy Reno in Floriduh and count some more votes..who knows he might find some more votes that will give him the election. You know in the amount of time since the election he has probably experted the art of chad counting. (The recount was done, Gore won)

Gore's a loser, so is Reno. Get way over it Moonie. (Gore won)

Umm, no he didn't win. According to the constitution he indeed lost by loosing the electorial college. Sorry to hand you the facts though. Also he lost the recounts that was done in Florida. Also taking into account the popular votes, if they were recounted. The votes are still so close that computing errors may have even switched the majority to Bush even then. Thats why the electorial college was set in place, to balance out the inaccurate counting of millions of votes individually.

No actually Allknowing Moonbeam is correct on this one, he did win one maybe two, after Bush had won all the recounts and about 3-4 independent recounts..Gores peoples finally managed to manufacture enough votes to give him the victory. The real question would be the total amount that was crated after election day.

If you are going to bash everyone that posts in this thread about their ignorance of the Holy Bible. I would suggest you look at it yourself. You are merely an ignorant hater that likes to cast the blame upon others. For your information I have read both the Bible and the Koran, as well as part of the Torah. What have you read?

 

[Moonbeam]

Nitemare Quote: If you are going to bash everyone that posts in this thread about their ignorance of the Holy Bible. I would suggest you look at it yourself.
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I thought I was looking at myself when I said, "Eight so far who don't know the Bible. Nine counting myself." See how self reflecting I am. And why, if I'm ignorant of the Bible would I bash it, or better yet, since I could be insane, show me where I did. You sir are tilting at windmills.
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Nitemare Quote2: You are merely an ignorant hater that likes to cast the blame upon others. For your information I have read both the Bible and the Koran, as well as part of the Torah. What have you read?
-----------------------------------------------

Talk about looking at yourself. I remember once screaming at a psychiatrist, I'M NOT DEFENSIVE!. When your moment of recognition comes know that a fool can become somebody like me, who here now wishes you peace.

ToBeMe, I'm fishing because I lack knowledge and am speculating not accusing. Your assertion that Iraq is a threat is under debate and your knowledge of the inner workings of Bush's mine is nothing short of clairvoyant.

 

[Stark]

Stark, what the Bush admin. would not want to make public is that the attack on Iraq is intended to assure the Biblical predictions by making sure Israel's enemies don't get strong enough to finish her, nukes or not.

I would like a bit more than your assurance that the Bible says I'm on target. What does The Book say?

Did I stutter? The Bush admin is NOT (NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT) attacking Iraq because of Israel, the Bible, or any other conspiracy theory you have rattling around in your brain!! The Bible says (or is interpreted to say) Israel will not be destroyed once it was re-established, but that is all. Our impending attack on Iraq has little to do with Israel... it will still be there if we kill Saddam or not. It's not like Saddam has troops massed on its boarders to march through Jordan and into Israel.

What evidence do you have that the Bible and/or Israel is the motivating force behind Bush's actions? ANY?

 

[Legendary]

Peoplewhodon'tknowanswertothisquestion++;

(are apostrophes allowed?)

 

[Jfur]

The eschatological visions in the Bible all deal with returning Israel to its pre-sin state, sort of a return to the garden of Eden. But eschatological literature is beleived (by those who don't take the Bible literally) as political writings that occur when someone is unhappy with the social order. In the NT, things get really, really, really bad and then the most vigilant Xians (who these are depends on what type pf Xian you are and how exclusive you think Heaven should be) are sported away to live with Jesus and laugh at the rest of us who did not believe them. Often when disasters happen, people say, "SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is a sign of the end times." I TRULY believe that we are following a self-fulfilling prophecy of destruction, and I believe that you are hitting the bulleye with your last question.

 

[Moonbeam]

The question is, drum roll, what happens to the accuracy of Biblical prediction if Israel ceases to exist? Does it mean there is no God because the Bible got one wrong? Are peope of all faiths and none going to die so a bunch of fundamentalist loonies let anything prove them wrong. Perhaps these implications, which are so obvious to me, aren't. ( Can you here me now. Are we all using Verizon. )

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The question is, drum roll, what happens to the accuracy of Biblical prediction if Israel ceases to exist? Does it mean there is no God because the Bible got one wrong? Are peope of all faiths and none going to die so a bunch of fundamentalist loonies let anything prove them wrong. Perhaps these implications, which are so obvious to me, aren't. ( Can you here me now. Are we all using Verizon. )

Exactly as predicted above...........there had to be an underlying reason ole' beamer was fishing for this..........and......there was!

 

[Moonbeam]

What evidence do you have that the Bible and/or Israel is the motivating force behind Bush's actions? ANY?
--------------------------------------

All layed out in the first post and why it was so long. And I DON'T DON'T DON'T DON'T care whether you think I'm right or not. I'm looking for what the Bible says so I can make a better judgment on what I have here derived out of my huge unconscious holistic processing power, combined with my deep paranoia, and the fact that Bush is exibiting an insane, suicidal and counterproductive need for speed and with all the signs that he doesn't care what he is doing to the country. Hunters use hounds. There is more than one kind of nose. And don't worry, I just want to know for myself. You don't have to agree.

Don't tell me who won the election, don't tell me I'm bashing Christianity. Don't tell me you don't care. Don't tell me Bush is thinking something else. Tell me what the Bible says so I don't have to duplicate the effort. Of course you cn tell me what you want, but it will be clear evidence to me of a cludgy thought process.

Hey, what am I gonna do when I find out, change the world?

 

[Moonbeam]

ToBeMe discovers the obvious and calls it epiphany. I fished for my car keys in my front pocket and look at that, car keys! Those tricky pants, they thought they could fool me.