What does it mean to be a "man"? Are there no "real men" left?

[ahenkel]

to be a man you must have honor, honor and a penis.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I feel like a big child. I'm a single 28 year old. I have 2-door car. I have a motorcycle. I like computers and video games. I find "that's what she said" jokes amusing.

I guess I'm not a man. Oh well, I'm gonna go play Forza Motorsport 3...

I have a motorcycle, 29yo, like videogames and computers, have a two door car. Only difference is I'm married. Just got done playing fallout 3.

 

[bommy261]

I think you missed my point entirely. Almost everything I listed was not for the purpose of saying, "a real man owns this," but I was stating behavior that comes from the inside.

"A real man does not own a childish car." Has nothing to do with the car, the car is a reflection of the person. A childish and flashy car will often display a truism about the man driving it.

Alot of men think that the car they drive actually matters that is why there is a certain fact to your statement. But alas material possessions are not going to make you a man

Nor does reading poetry, i lol'd when i read that actually.. i can't believe people still think that reciting poetry is manly because they did it 100 years or so ago.. I think a girl would laugh at you if u recited shakespeare to them and you were serious about it.

Protecting your family, enjoying the times spent with friends, trying new things, living life and bringing your girlfriend/wife with you through the whole journey is what makes you a man.

 

[Jeff7181]

I have a motorcycle, 29yo, like videogames and computers, have a two door car. Only difference is I'm married. Just got done playing fallout 3.

Do you like "that's what she said jokes?" We should be friends!

 

[jeanclaude]

This thread has demonstrated ad nauseam(but in a very interesting way) is that masculinity much less what defined ‘real’ masculinity is such a cultural construction that it is highly unlikely that any two random ATOT members will ever really agree on what constitutes central versus peripherally defining features. And that is a clearly a good thing.

Categorical membership in something as abstract as the notion of masculinity is inherently fuzzy. And changing. Personally, I don’t think that any one set of features, traits, qualifications etc that someone lists are any better than anyone else’s. People clearly have different priorities based on SES, race, orientation etc.

Please tell me how an illiterate campesino who toils in a field all day to put food on his family’s table is any less of a real man than the solider in Iraq or Afghanistan or the factory worker who labors on the line to provide for his family or the school teacher / mechanic / IT person, banker, exec, etc.? MHO all are equally real men.

Bad clothes, bad hair, vanity, infidelity, lack of technical skills, general douchiness, whatever. Any combination of these are enough to render one no longer a ‘real’ man? If that is the case then at some point everyone on this list (minus the women) will become disqualified at some point. A ‘real man’ is an idealistic media sustained fantasy – like the rabbit at the greyhound track. Something men will always chase but never really catch. Some dogs just get closer to the rabbit than others but no dog ever actually captures it. Does that make the dogs at the back of the pack any less of a 'real' dog? The lead dogs do get the bitches and the glory however… And who doesn't want to be a lead dog?

 

[Kirby]

real men don't bitch as much as the OP

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm sick and tired of hearing about "being a man."

I want to post this to open a serious discussion about what is means to be a "real man."

I'll post what I think.

Many of you on these forums often harp on about having a "man card," but many of you imply many of the things you claim a "man" should enjoy or like are really things that myself and many others would consider childish.

Most of us throw the "man card" thing around as a joke. I really don't care if you enjoy sitting around and watching "Glee," enjoy "Twilight," or other things that are "unmanly."

For example, I see grown, upper middle class men with probable decent jobs walking around in football jerseys and gym shorts as their weekend apparel. Is this how a real "man" would dress?

Yep. In our society, love of sports is one of the defining traits of a man, IMO. Most men do enjoy sports and enjoying following certain teams and this is how they display their devotion. It isn't just an American thing either -- some fans in Europe, South America, etc. are even MORE fanatical about their "football" than we are here.

I disagree with that definition of a "man."

I think the modern man has evolved into this sort of "man child." Let me break it down into several points.

1. Dress: The modern man has evolved little in the way they dress from the time they were teenagers or kids. A trip to any suburban mall or restaurant on the weekend will indicate this.

Doesn't a "real man" dress like one? I bet many here are dressing similar or other fashion that is more for a 12 year old. How many times have you seen the "athletic deparment shirt" with shorts and a backwards hat on nearly every husky looking 28 year old? Do these people never grow up?

I agree with you that wearing a backward hat at 28 or older looks a bit dorky, but I think you're missing the point. Most men don't care about fashion. At work, I wear polos and khakis with casual shoes. On the weekends, jeans and a polo or T-shirt with sneakers.

2. Cars: The modern man's car is vain. This trend started in the 1960s with muscle cars. Loud cars with lots of chrome with little engineering quality or technology, but with large engines and high acceleration times. The modern man doesn't car about looking classy or staying under the radar. Instead of enjoying the satisfaction of personally knowing the importance of your car, the modern man's desire is to draw as much attention as possible to their life sized HotWheels project.

The evolution of the modern pick up truck is a perfect example. Compare truck sales or compact trucks to full sized trucks today. The modern pickup truck is so tall and imposing, one would wonder how you could even load into the back of it given many of them have a nearly 4 foot ground clearance from the tail gate! A generation ago, trucks were built for work, and they were respectable. The modern day truck is an extension of the childhood fantasy of owning a "monster truck." It's not what is used to be, a tool for work.

I can't comment on cars very much. I do love sports cars and have always wanted a Corvette since I was a kid, but in the end, I am a very practical person and drive what is 1) paid off and 2) practical. My car is a 2001 and when I finally trade it in, I will look for something with good gas mileage and some hauling capacity (a small SUV or maybe a truck).

3. Houses: The modern man has no sense of style or design. Modern houses are cookie cutter houses in cookie cutter neighborhoods often throw together with plywood, asphalt shingles, and "fantasy like" landscaping, often making the house look like something out of a design book, with no character or personal touches.

If you drive through older well off neighborhoods, you see custom designed houses of many different styles. Cape Cod, New England, Tudor, and other styles. The modern house is vain, often with cheaply made aesthetic features used to mimic grand styles, like wood pillars (to resemble stone ones). Interior, it's no different. Cheaply built furniture probably made in China and large flat screen TVs everywhere. Very few modern houses have proper offices or libraries and when they do it's usually just a "computer room" posing as an office. A office or library is a place where business gets done and intellectual pursuits are achieved.

Again, just like fashion, things like interior design, color coordination, style, etc. are things men care very little about. Most people also don't need a room dedicated to an office or library and in fact, most probably can't afford it due to having kids and not enough space.

I have a custom-built home and my wife is the one that decorates it. If she asks me my opinion on something, I will typically say "whatever you want is fine" unless it is such a horrific idea that it screams "Don't do it!" even to me. Otherwise, we do strive to buy nicer furniture and materials for the house.

4 Travel: The modern man is a "vacation coward." It wasn't until the last 50 years did "package vacations" arrive to the market. Before then, "men" traveled like men. And I will say, real men don't need travel agents. Rarely does it come across that a modern man is traveling to somewhere besides your common tourist trap or vacation resort.

I have never used a travel agent. Typically, I am the one in our relationship to book trips based on discussing goals, etc. with my wife. We spent 2+ weeks in Europe in November and December last year, and I was responsible for travel and hotel arrangements and she researched the sites she wanted to see.

My wife did want to take a vacation to a resort this year, and I did put my foot down -- what is the point of going to some isolated resort and spending all of your time there?

I will define very briefly what a "real man" should be.

I think a real man appreciates a woman for more than a piece of meat, but is attracted to their person and their style, not just the size of their chest.

I could say the same about women -- many women don't seem to appreciate men for the right reasons. Different thread, though.

Real men read books and educate themselves, not just "Maxim" or some other childish nonsense. Information and intellect are the keys to power and wealth. No one ever achieved anything in their life reading some boob magazine. Real men read poetry and classic literature. This is how it was done generations ago by real men.

Bwahahaha. Ok, SERIOUSLY, poetry and classic literature are the key to wealth? Time to get out more! If you enjoy reading that stuff, great. But come on, time to come back to the real world.

Reading and educating yourself is great and can help you attain wealth, but the key is to learn something practical.

Real men dress the part, with style. Proper shoes, not pair of Nikes they got on sale at Cosco. Proper shirt, collared or sweaters, made with quality. Proper suits, made by a tailor or top designer, not something you got at Men's Warehouse.

This is not practical for the majority of people, for a variety of reasons -- not to mention cost. People tend to wear what's comfortable when not at work. I only wear suits on interviews or at weddings. I hate wearing them otherwise.

I respect everyone's opinions, but I had to get this off my chest. I'm sick of tired of seeing grown ass men act, dress, behave, and treat women like a 14 year old would.

Where I work, the men I work with act like beaten-down dogs in reference to their wives. THAT is pathetic.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

yeah, I think that sums it up. Things like this are defined by the majority of the culture. Apparently, you are in the minority. Cool place to be... sometimes.

That sums it up. The OP likes poetry? Great, read it. Just don't expect men to fall all over themselves, slap you on the back, and say "atta boy!" when you are reading the latest poetry book.

I am a very educated person and I don't like reading poetry. I just don't like it. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

To buy a proper suit? That makes you a metrosexual? No to dress like you've "never been nowhere," is the hallmark is a child, hence my "man-child" argument. A "boy" doesn't know how to pick out a proper suit. Men's Warehouse is a popular place for prom tuxes, this only proves my point.

Speaking of things like cars "reflecting the attitude of the owner," this quote is a reflection on you, and not a positive one. People buy suits they can afford and most intelligent people are going to spend thousands of dollars on suits that they will only wear a couple of times a year.

People who are brand obsessed or materialistic (which your quote seems to show) are childish.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i disagree.

a good friend of mine's dad couldn't change a tire, his oil or do any electrical or plumbing in his house. What he did though is bust his ass 8-10 hours a day to provide food and shelter for his family. He was also a good father. spending time with his kids and teaching them right from wrong. going to dance recitals and sporting events.

he was married for 40+ years before he died.

i would define that as a man.

Yes, that sounds like a real man. My dad was like that -- he busted his ass for decades providing for us, putting us through school, and he could also do just about anything around the house -- electrical, plumbing, carpentry, etc. He didn't own fancy clothes or a "custom tailored suit," he drove beat-up cars to work, and he didn't do much for himself. He certainly didn't read poetry or classic literature (seriously, OP, WTF). But he provided for his family with honor and dignity and he was far more "manly" than anything in the OP's rant.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I dress how I dress.

I do what I do.

I am who I am.

Whatever that makes me in the grand scheme is fine by me.

 

[meltdown75]

lol "real men"

-_- <^>

 

[Jeeebus]

I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta be fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And he's gotta be larger than life

That about sums it up

 

[SandEagle]

a real man does not link to poems

 

[tk149]

A real man doesn't care how a teenager on an internet forum defines "a real man." Especially one that thinks having tailored suits is a prerequisite.

 

[PingSpike]

Being a "man" is something the woman invented to play on a man's natural-given ego in order to get them to do what they want.

LOL...as said the truth is the only time I ever see the "be a man" thing dragged out is when some one (usually a woman) is trying to manipulate a man into doing something that is against his best interests.

 

[radioouman]

A real man is someone who works together as team with his wife. And yes, he marries her. He doesn't live with his life-long girlfriend. He is committed.

A real man is someone who works. He works hard. He works to support his family. He works to provide a nice shelter over his family. Oh, and he has a family. None of this double income/no kids lifestyle crap.

A real man sacrifices for the good of his family. The convertible doesn't make a good car for car seats and hauling a stroller? Sell it and get something that works with the family.

A real man has decent clothes and cleans up well when he needs too. None of this scruffy beard, uncombed hair, loose suit crap. On the other hand, there is no reason for him to run around in $200 shoes either.

A real man provides security for his wife and is a model for his kids. He helps to save up money to ensure that the family can handle the unexpected. He is devoted to his wife and doesn't pursue other female coworkers/friends/etc.

A real man works on his house/cars/yard/anything that breaks, but is smart enough to know when he is in over his head and to call a professional. He doesn't have to be able to rebuild an engine in his garage, but he needs to be handy enough to change the oil.

A real man needs to know when to compromise in all aspects of his life. Don't work 60 hours a week for some extra pay and sacrifice your family life. Don't act like you know where you are going if you don't, yet won't ask for directions. Don't get so bull headed and go waste money on your fishing/hobbies/whatever.

And finally, a real man still should have the desire to learn something new everyday. Learn to cook, learn new skills for the job, learn how to play with your kids....

 

[Blackjack200]

Fuck this thread. My dad built the second story of the house we grew up in. He put three kids through college despite never graduating himself. If he's not wearing tailored suits frequently enough for your taste, it's because at the age of sixty he plays soccer twice a week (didn't start playing until he was 35) and softball on Sundays.

But you know what the best part about him is? If you're an honest and sincere guy, even if you can't change a windsheild wiper he'll have a beer with you and call you a friend. And he'd certainly never deny your manhood.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I smoke, I cuss, I chase women, and I fight when provoked.

I enjoy my y chromosome something fierce.

 

[DrPizza]

i disagree.

a good friend of mine's dad couldn't change a tire, his oil or do any electrical or plumbing in his house. What he did though is bust his ass 8-10 hours a day to provide food and shelter for his family. He was also a good father. spending time with his kids and teaching them right from wrong. going to dance recitals and sporting events.

he was married for 40+ years before he died.

i would define that as a man.

And, if he didn't have to pay people to do those things for him, he could have worked a little less time & taught his kids some useful skills. Instead, he spent more hours at work & his kids grew up with less knowledge. There once was a time when the vast majority of fathers passed that knowledge down to their sons & spent that additional time with their sons giving them skills that they could be proud of. Now, they have to pick up the phone and call a plumber because their sink leaks.

 

[JMapleton]

If he's not wearing tailored suits frequently enough for your taste

I've never met a group of people who misread and twisted people's words more than on ATOT. I never said you had to be white collar to be a "real man." Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough. My tailored suit comment was meant for those who did wear suits. If your job does not require a suit, why would you need more than one or two suits in the first place? If a fellow does not have a need to wear a suit on a regular basis, good for them. No need for such a suit, doesn't make you less of a man.

But what I stated was my opinion and if you disagree, a "real man" would do it in a civilized way. Not as an adolescent would, "fuck this."

 

[JMapleton]

People who are brand obsessed or materialistic (which your quote seems to show) are childish.

That is true, but there is a debatable line.

A real man has a sense of style and an appreciate for high quality goods. Most people these days 99% of their clothing is made in China.

 

[IAteYourMother]

In the days of my youth I was told what it means to be a man.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

This thread is full of e-peen.

 

[JMapleton]

Bwahahaha. Ok, SERIOUSLY, poetry and classic literature are the key to wealth? Time to get out more! If you enjoy reading that stuff, great. But come on, time to come back to the real world.

I don't know what's so funny. I specifically said, "Information and intellect are the keys to power and wealth." And you make up this phrase of me saying poetry and classic literature are the keys to wealth.

Yes, information and intellect are the keys to wealth, and yes I could even say poetry is one too, given how great poetry, like the one I posted, is the inner reflection of the human mind which puts into words, intentions and motivations that one cannot often articulate, and when these reflections and intentions are articulated and brought from our subconscious to our conscious, we can often be motivated to do great things.