What do you think about flat tax?

[Martin]

I'd like to hear some opinions. It seems like a good idea to, IF governments can will still have enough money. There are a lot of proponents of this and it seems to be working well in Russia where it's actually increased gov. budget.

 

[thraashman]

there are several problems with this. the first and biggest is simple. Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. If a person who makes 10 million a year is taxed 45%, they can still afford to live very well, but if a poor person who makes only $30000 a year is taxed 45%, they can't live. A flat tax would force poorer people to pay too large of a tax percentage for them to be able to live. Also a large flat sales tax would cause there to be a large black market. Personally I think flat sales tax is an incredibly stupid idea.

 

[shiner]

<< Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. >>


You need help.

 

[Viper GTS]

Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to.

<COUGH>bullsh!t</COUGH>

Viper GTS

 

[b0mbrman]

Hmm...interesting topic. I wanna see how it plays out first before commenting...

One thing to remember is that tax revenue would have to remain constant...

 

[charrison]

thraashman,

You are right, they will still live well, but they might not live well enough to give you a job cleaning the barnacles off their boat.


Flat tax/national sales tax would be a huge improvement over what we have now.

All members of society must pay equally in the cost of goverment. Currently the upper 50% pay 96% of the tax bill with the lower 50% paying 4%.

We currently have the majority poor voting how the govt moneys get spent. Soon the poor will vote everything away from the rich..and then there will be no rich to steal from.

 

[Sluggo]

<< Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. >>



Quite possibly the stupidest thing I have heard all day.

The highest tax brackets dont start at 10 million dollars, they start about $50,000 per year. If you are making more than $60,000 per year, YOU are one of the despised "rich people."

 

[etech]

I like the idea of a flat tax only I would add one exemption. X amount of dollars of income would not be taxed.

Assume X is $20,000 and the flat tax is 10%.

Income of $25,000, you pay 10% of $5,000.
Income of $250,000, you pay 10% of $230,000.

Simple and efficient.

 

[glen]

<< Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. >>


Why?
They create all the wealth.
They create all the jobs.
They create all the new technologies.

 

[911paramedic]

My father has made a good deal of money in the past and was fortunate enough to retire at the age of 45'ish. He has done a few other business deals since then. One deal facilitated the sale of one business to another for over 45 million. He was supposed to get 5% for the communication and talks between the two. He stressed HARD for a while over this (no blaming him, big cash). The deal went through after long talks, then the seller decided to try and screw my dad out of the cash. He was going to bring a lawsuit to get the monies owed but they finally settled on an undisclosed amount (I know but can't say ).
After all that crap he was almost ready to live in another country with the money because the tax was going to eat so much. He is living in CA and ok now, he gave the 10% to his friend as promised, for introducing him to the sellers, then got raped for the rest.

Taxes are necessary but there should be some standards. A flat tax rate is not the answer, but a percentage per person followed by a limit would be good.

Example: Total USA spending (divided by) number of people in US = liability per person
Not enough money for liability, use the current liability percentage. Enough money, pay your due and you are done.

Just my two cents, I am drunk and pissed because I did not buy AMD stock last friday like I planned to.

 

[b0mbrman]

<< I like the idea of a flat tax only I would add one exemption. X amount of dollars of income would not be taxed.

Assume X is $20,000 and the flat tax is 10%.

Income of $25,000, you pay 10% of $5,000.
Income of $250,000, you pay 10% of $230,000.

Simple and efficient. >>


That's the world's simplest graduated system

 

[spyordie007]

<< Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. >>


How could you say such a stupid thing?
You communist bastard, get out of my country!

 

[911paramedic]

As long as I am drunk and spoke about my AMD trading, here are my AMD trades for last year:

10/18/2001 Buy 400.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $9.70000 -$3909.95
10/26/2001 Sell 400.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $10.43000 $4141.91
10/30/2001 Buy 500.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $9.63000 -$4844.95
11/01/2001 Sell 500.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $10.42000 $5179.87
11/07/2001 Buy 500.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $14.07000 -$7064.95
12/13/2001 Sell 400.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $16.85000 $6715.81
12/13/2001 Sell 100.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $16.85000 $1678.95
12/13/2001 Buy 700.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $17.30000 -$12139.95
12/17/2001 Sell 700.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $17.60000 $12289.63
01/30/2002 Buy 700.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $15.22000 -$10683.95
03/08/2002 Sell 700.0000 AMD ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES $16.25000 $11344.87

Made a couple bucks on them. Go AMD!!! Earnings supposed to be tonight.

SURE WISH I BOUGHT MORE AND HELD ON AT 9.7, BUT I HATE LOSSES, EVEN THE ONES I THINK MAY HAPPEN

 

[b0mbrman]

<<

<< Rich people get taxed a higher percentage, but they deserve to. >>

Why?
They create all the wealth.
They create all the jobs.
They create all the new technologies. >>


But if they're so rich, they must have oppressed *someone* along the way.

Why do we all hate Microsoft so much?

 

[thraashman]

even idiots can see (which means most of you are dumber than your basic idiot) that a flat sales tax would hurt people who make smaller amounts (and for those of you who think that they make less because they do less, think of teachers who make little but are one of the most important groups of people in this nation). People who are near the poverty line would fall beneath it and not be able to live normally. And the flat sales tax rates taht are usually presented are closer to 25%, not 10%. Then there's situations like internet purchasing, it would be taxed now. You'd have people near the borders crossing them to make large purchases, which makes there be less American revenue, as I already stated a large black market would arise. I've looked at this concept and realize that it is by no means a good idea.

And yes the rich do deserve to pay a higher percentage, this is a capitaliztic society, and as such if you are able to take advantage of being allowed to operate in this great capitalistic society, you should have to give something back in some way. That's also why donations are tax deductable, you're being rewarded for being generous. And if you think people can evade taxes now, the rich have the resources to easily evade a flat sales tax. in other words, pull your head outta your ass people.

 

[StageLeft]

Without reading the rest of this thread cause I'm off to bed it seems to me it wouldn't work.To keep government income the same the flat tax would end up massively increasing the taxes for the average joe such that their quality of life would suffer significantly. Our society is run on the backs of a few at the top. Their tax rate would come down a lot but to keep net income for gov't the same people like you and me would pay gross amounts of taxes to make up the diff. Fair? Sure, but it would suck

 

[StageLeft]

<< And yes the rich do deserve to pay a higher percentage, this is a capitaliztic society, and as such if you are able to take advantage of being allowed to operate in this great capitalistic society, you should have to give something back in some way. That's also why donations are tax deductable, you're being rewarded for being generous. And if you think people can evade taxes now, the rich have the resources to easily evade a flat sales tax. in other words, pull your head outta your ass people. >>

That really doesn't make sense. Look, I agree with you that a flat tax wouldn't work - and I don't think Russia's economy is much to model on *chuckle* - but rich people DO give something back to society. It's called paying for the pool guy, getting the golf leaf put on their car, hiring 50 people at the plant, flying first class, etc. Their money gets spent to help society.

The rich, morally speaking, should not have to pay a higher percentage because it is unfair. If you're lazy and you make $30k/year and I'm not and I make $500k/year in some ways I should pay the same taxes exactly! That is ultimately and purely fair. We each pay $5k/year. Making it a bit less fair we each pay same percentage so you pay 20% and I pay 20%. Less fair even still is I pay a higher percentage. Now I'm REALLY getting reamed hard for my efforts and successes. Am I still better off than you? Yes, and that is why rich people strive.

I appreciate the taxes they pay and I'm above the average income as well so I pay more than the average joe after everything is taken into account. Although it's unfair it has to stay this way otherwise the poor now would be broke.

 

[Tripleshot]

Tythe 10% to the government (one nation, under God, and all that good stuff..makes sense,huh?) And at least you would now where you stand on each payday and on April 15th.

Etech's plan has been fielded before. It makes perfect sense to have a safety net to prevent as much poverty and provide as much oppurtunity as we can possibly afford. Setting a reasonable threshold of which no income tax can be levied is (IMHO) a damn good idea.

 

[spyordie007]

Taxing people a higher percentage for earning more money discourages capitalism, it discourages people from trying to make more money.
And I think there's a big mix-up here so I thought I would clarify. The people who get taxed the most (percentage wise) are not the rich, it is the upper middle class, the rich on the other hand dont actually make that much money in the form of wages and therefore do not get taxed as much as the upper middle class. The reason that they provide a large amout of money for the goverment is not money comming out of their paychecks, it's tax money that gets generated by the business that they do. While we are on the subject of Microsoft Bill Gates does pay a large amout of tax money, but the tax money that he pays (personally) is based upon the salary that he takes. The real tax dollars that he generates is not money out of his salary, it's money that his company generates.

 

[StageLeft]

<< The idea behind it was to draw more Russians out of the "shadow economy" and make them honest taxpayers. And the results have been amazing. Revenue from personal income tax went up by almost 47 percent last year, and tax revenue overall rose 50 percent, according to government figures. The results from 2002 are promising as well. "We expect the number of people filling out income tax forms to increase substantially," >>

so basically russia's tax revenue went up cause less people are lying to them

 

[911paramedic]

<<even idiots can see (which means most of you are dumber than your basic idiot) that a flat sales tax would hurt people who make smaller amounts (and for those of you who think that they make less because they do less, think of teachers who make little but are one of the most important groups of people in this nation). People who are near the poverty line would fall beneath it and not be able to live normally. And the flat sales tax rates taht are usually presented are closer to 25%, not 10%. Then there's situations like internet purchasing, it would be taxed now. You'd have people near the borders crossing them to make large purchases, which makes there be less American revenue, as I already stated a large black market would arise. I've looked at this concept and realize that it is by no means a good idea. >>

I so agree with you. I am a paramedic with 5+ years experience at saving lives, that gets paid less than the entry level UPS driver. It is a sad thing that I get paid less for delivering a PERSON to an ER after doing life saving procedures than a bag boy at your local grocery store. (or a package from a UPS person, what value is that package worth now??)

I agree that we all owe, but losing a family estate due to inheritance tax is just fvcked, plain and simple. Taxes were paid many times before, if you add it all up it will be around 75% for inherited property or assets, WTF is up with that??? You own it and pay taxes on it before you die it should be clean and tax free to give it to a relative. PERIOD

 

[BornStar]

<< My father has made a good deal of money in the past and was fortunate enough to retire at the age of 45'ish. He has done a few other business deals since then. One deal facilitated the sale of one business to another for over 45 million. He was supposed to get 5% for the communication and talks between the two. He stressed HARD for a while over this (no blaming him, big cash). The deal went through after long talks, then the seller decided to try and screw my dad out of the cash. He was going to bring a lawsuit to get the monies owed but they finally settled on an undisclosed amount (I know but can't say ).
After all that crap he was almost ready to live in another country with the money because the tax was going to eat so much. He is living in CA and ok now, he gave the 10% to his friend as promised, for introducing him to the sellers, then got raped for the rest.

Taxes are necessary but there should be some standards. A flat tax rate is not the answer, but a percentage per person followed by a limit would be good.

Example: Total USA spending (divided by) number of people in US = liability per person
Not enough money for liability, use the current liability percentage. Enough money, pay your due and you are done.

Just my two cents, I am drunk and pissed because I did not buy AMD stock last friday like I planned to. >>



Quite simply, this wouldn't work.

Most of the revenue from taxes comes from the people at the top. I have no idea what the total averages out to per person, but I get the feeling that most people would have to pay way more money than they make. I'm not going to make up percentages, but we're talking people up into the upper regions of the middle class losing money on this deal. I'm in favor of a flat tax, but it just won't work unless that government stops spending so much money. And this can be done.

 

[Sluggo]

<< you should have to give something back in some way. >>



I dont consider it as "giving back", I consider it punishment for doing above average. You did better than Bob down the street so we want a larger chunk of your money.

So what if I worked longer harder hours than Bob down the street, I still have to pay more. So what if I risked my money to make more money, I have to pay more. So what if I worked 7 days a week compared to Bobs 5 days a week, no matter, I have to pay more.

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>>And if you think people can evade taxes now, the rich have the resources to easily evade a flat sales tax.<<<<

Pull your head out. You have the same access to loopholes as the fat cats. I know, I am into financial planning for a very large firm who does for the average 30k/yr as much as what the corporate CEO 8 figure guy can get in relationship to earned income. You would be surprised at the many ways to build wealth.

Taxes are only neccesary to fund the services we have come accustomed to, like good highways, transportation integerity by sea,aitr or land, water quality protection,air quality protection, resource protection,and the defense of the nation. Of course, a whole host of other "administrative" fees are attached, but you should mostly squeal about the pork barrel spending and lobbiest garnered handouts that chump politicains pander too on a routine basis.

Ain't America grand?

 

[StageLeft]

<< I am a paramedic with 5+ years experience at saving lives, that gets paid less than the entry level UPS driver. It is a sad thing that I get paid less for delivering a PERSON to an ER after doing life saving procedures than a bag boy at your local grocery store. >>

That is quite ludicrous, but I bet you like your job more than the average UPS driver who probably has to drink every night to keep sane. So basically you're getting paid in dollars and satisfaction of a job well done. That doesn't help buy a tv but it means your employer can get away with paying you less :frown:

BTW what does a UPS driver make or fedex and stuff?