What do you object to about Christianity?

[coloumb]

I object everything about all religions because it's an annoying feature of Civ 4.

 

[Nik]

nikki, no amount of interpretation can change the verse in Romans into something it is not. Twist yourself into apologetic pretzels if you wish.

Stop.

I didn't read any farther. There are servants in the bible and slaves. So what? There always has been throughout history and there always will be, regardless of whether the bible exists or not (hopefully every copy in the world bursts into flames simultaneously and disintegrates into exactly what it's worth: nothing). You cannot twist the bible to endorse slave ownership no matter how hard you try, without taking shit out of context and being generally low-brow about it.

Hell, there's even a story in the bible about a guy who submits himself to slavery to earn the slave owner's daughter's hand in marriage. At the end of his 7 years, the owner says he wants 7 more, and the slave basically says okay.

You can remove the word slave and plug in any modern word you want, but it won't ever mean that the bible endorses your modern understanding of slavery.

The OP isn't interested in legit conversation anyway; all he wants to do is bait the hook to serve his religious nutjob feel-good-about-himself garbage. I've seen it an infinite number of times in people, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

All the OP's interested in is apologetic pretzels so that's what I'll play to.

If you really want to have a non-bullshit argument, start a new thread or send me a PM and I'd be happy to talk with you about your point of view.

 

[totalnoob]

dammit I got trolled by you nik..lol. I haven't been following your posts and thought you were being serious.

 

[Nik]

dammit I got trolled by you nik..lol. I haven't been following your posts and thought you were being serious.

Using a passive aggressive method to call me a troll doesn't make your insinuation any less retarded. You're not funny, either. I'm not trolling.

 

[Perknose]

While I respect the drive of your post, I don't see how you can claim to know these hypothetical supernatural rules.

You wish to argue faith, which it is impossible to do. I don't claim to know anything, but I have my belief.

I am not asking you to agree with me, but I am asking you to understand that faith and logic exist in mutually exclusive spheres of the human experience, and that attacking faith with logic, no matter how masturbatively satisfying it may be to the attacker, is like shooting fish in a barrel.

The logic of the fish in the barrel says that all that there is and can ever be is inside this barrel. It cannot be disproven by any other fish. Faith says there is something outside the barrel, which we mortal fish cannot directly apprehend.

As a logic fish, you will snort bubbles and think, NO, but remember the words of the bard, arguable a far wiser and deeper man than most of us here:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 5

Please take note: I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. I am simply saying that I have my beliefs, and I am saying I tend towards a metaphysical belief in some amorphous sense of the indivisible divinity of ALL, much like the Buddhists believe.

No Joe God for me, no one organized religion over any other, and a sad understanding that the bureaucracies each religion have erected over the centuries are akin to the cruel metaphysical nightmare an eternal DMV line.

I am saying that ALL that your logic can encompass is not necessarily all that is, and you cannot confidently state that it does, by a country parsec!

Let me tickle your intellect this way. You THINK you have a solid understanding of this physical world in which you and I live. FOOL! Look at how freaking strange modern physics is to we descendants of apes. It cannot even be accurately apprehended using the word blocks of our language as handed down over the centuries to us!

String theory needs, what, 10-11 dimensions to work, and it or something like it may be the true physical reality of our world. Not to mention anti-matter, quantum mechanics (two places at once!), et al.

When you know all that you DON'T know, even about basic physical "reality" you may be less assured in dismissing other's beliefs about what may or may not be.

Again, none of this is any good argument that my beliefs are the truest picture of our universe, not at all. All of this is merely to shake you loose of your primitive belief that your PUNY and necessarily circumscribed logic trumps all, and to open up your mind a bit.

 

[NinjaTech]

I object everything about all religions because it's an annoying feature of Civ 4.

Hmmmm ...interesting user name.

 

[totalnoob]

Using a passive aggressive method to call me a troll doesn't make your insinuation any less retarded. You're not funny, either. I'm not trolling.

Oh great..so you really are a believer in these bullshit doctrines? Then kindly answer my question.

 

[Nik]

Oh great..so you really are a believer in these bullshit doctrines? Then kindly answer my question.

I must have missed the question you ask me. What did you ask?

Also, where exactly did I say that I'm a Christian? Have you even read my posts in this thread?

Before you reply, go read all of my posts in this thread.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

I object everything about all religions because it's an annoying feature of Civ 4.

Ah yes, but if you use it properly it can create great tension amongst your enemies. For example, I was playing against Isabella (Spain) and Montezuma (Aztecs), and naturally Spain founded Buddhism. I eventually founded Confucianism and the Aztecs still didn't have a religion, so I didn't adopt Confucianism but sent my missionary to the Aztec capitol. Then I adopted Buddhism and became an ally of Isabella. Sure enough, Monte adopted Confucianism and became Isabella's number one enemy, and she and I teamed up to wipe the Aztecs out.

Moral - Religion is a great tool for war! ()

 

[PottedMeat]

I object everything about all religions because it's an annoying feature of Civ 4.

I miss being able to churn out fanatics from my fundamentalist nation. Also sending out spies to poison water supplies and nuke cities while giving others the blame.

 

[totalnoob]

I must have missed the question you ask me. What did you ask?

The bible is very limited in scope compared to the modern world.. There is no way it could address everything governments could do that we perceive as unjust or immoral. I used slavery as a single example of something that was never repudiated by a commandment from God..yet we now recognize as a barbaric practice and a stain on human history. There are countless other things never mentioned in the bible that we have a similar attitude towards.. Nazi eugenics for example.. It's not mentioned anywhere in scripture (obviously), so the nazis weren't going against God's law with their racist policies.

So..(in the context of the Romans verse) were those who fought to undermine Hitler in the early 1930's "sinning" against God himself? Remember, the Nazis won a democratic election and were completely legitimate in the eyes of the world.. How exactly can believers justify opposing what they see as unjust/immoral practices of their governments? If their government is put in place by god and is not violating any of God's direct commandments, it would seem people must submit in all situations..regardless of how ridiculous, oppressive, or misguided the laws may seem.

 

[NinjaTech]

The bible is very limited in scope compared to the modern world.. There is no way it could address everything governments could do that we perceive as unjust or immoral. I used slavery as a single example of something that was never repudiated by a commandment from God..yet we now recognize as a barbaric practice and a stain on human history. There are countless other things never mentioned in the bible that we have a similar attitude towards.. Nazi eugenics for example.. It's not mentioned anywhere in scripture (obviously), so the nazis weren't going against God's law with their racist policies.

So..(in the context of the Romans verse) were those who fought to undermine Hitler in the early 1930's "sinning" against God himself? Remember, the Nazis won a democratic election and were completely legitimate in the eyes of the world.. How exactly can believers justify opposing what they see as unjust/immoral practices of their governments? If their government is put in place by god and is not violating any of God's direct commandments, it would seem people must submit in all situations..regardless of how ridiculous, oppressive, or misguided the laws may seem.

You really are as brilliant as a paper bag full of bricks. Your analogy about the Nazi's following God's will is one of your best analogies yet. I would ask you if you were dropped on your head as a kid but I think the problem is much more serious than simple brain damage.

 

[Nik]

The bible is very limited in scope compared to the modern world.. There is no way it could address everything governments could do that we perceive as unjust or immoral. I used slavery as a single example of something that was never repudiated by a commandment from God..yet we now recognize as a barbaric practice and a stain on human history. There are countless other things never mentioned in the bible that we have a similar attitude towards.. Nazi eugenics for example.. It's not mentioned anywhere in scripture (obviously), so the nazis weren't going against God's law with their racist policies.

So..(in the context of the Romans verse) were those who fought to undermine Hitler in the early 1930's "sinning" against God himself? Remember, the Nazis won a democratic election and were completely legitimate in the eyes of the world.. How exactly can believers justify opposing what they see as unjust/immoral practices of their governments? If their government is put in place by god and is not violating any of God's direct commandments, it would seem people must submit in all situations..regardless of how ridiculous, oppressive, or misguided the laws may seem.

You're an idiot. This doesn't even warrant effort in a reply.

You really need to step away from biblical conversation until you have better than a kindergartener's understanding of the general gist of the bible.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Because?

Because Darwinism doesn't prescribe behavior the way religion does.

 

[JackBurton]

The rational minds of the disciples that kept them from believing what their own eyes beheld. Perfectly reasonable to me.

Anything is reasonable when you are brainwashed.

I had my car stolen from my driveway once. My eyes saw the empty driveway but mind couldn't process that it was stolen. I called my dad to see if he had borrowed and thought about where I might have left it. It took me a while to grasp the obvious.

I see you completely ignored my analogy. Too logical for you? Yours is a bad analogy. It doesn't matter whether you chose to believe your car was stolen or not. The fact is, when you looked at the driveway you KNEW, without a shadow of a doubt, that your car was gone. Why it was gone, doesn't matter. Your "shock" didn't cause you to see something that wasn't.

The alleged contradictions in the bible had all been dealt with in scholary works. I'm not going to rhash all that here. If you're interested you can find it.

lol, no they haven't.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

You wish to argue faith, which it is impossible to do. I don't claim to know anything, but I have my belief.

[rant snip]

You were condemning this Christian fellow based on his beliefs and actions, and offered a view of what you think the faithful should exemplify based on what you claim God is and does. I could just as easily say, "IF God exists, he is one mean motherfucker who hates you and everyone else, and there's nothing you can do to escape the eternal hell that awaits you." Yours may be the feel-good version, but the point is there's no evidence for any of it, so it's arrogant and stupid to claim to know what happens in the afterlife or what the mindset of God is. I wouldn't do that even if I were a believer.

As for the rest of your post, I never claimed to understand the world in all of its intricacy or to have the keys to all knowledge. In fact, I've said that an empirical approach allows rational people to more readily admit what they don't know and appreciate a greater sense of mystery to the universe. I'm as open as they come. It's the people of faith who claim to have answers they do not. I also never claimed "logic trumps all," and I don't really know what that means, but logic certainly helps put spiritual belief into a stark and deservingly harsh perspective.

Overall, I'm not sure where the diatribe came from, but I suspect you are just overcompensating when challenged on a minor point.

 

[totalnoob]

You're an idiot. This doesn't even warrant effort in a reply.

You really need to step away from biblical conversation until you have better than a kindergartener's understanding of the general gist of the bible.

Thank you for the confirmation that you have NO coherent reply to this question. You have NO biblical basis for opposing immoral things such as slavery or nazi eugenics. The reason you can't justify opposing governments who engage in immoral/anti-human practices is because the bible often condones these practices..because it orders us to obey all earthly authorities, and because and there is never a justification offered for opposing government policies when they don't violate the commandments.

Your deflection/ad-hominem is a crystal clear sign that your logic has failed. Score one for "the bible is an amoral and useless piece of shit" side. You fail. You lose, and everyone here has seen it.

 

[sandorski]

Because?

http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-.../dp/1403965021

From Darwin to Hitler elucidates the revolutionary impact Darwinism had on ethics and morality. Weikart demonstrates that many leading Darwinian biologists and social thinkers in Germany believed that Darwinism overturned traditional Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment ethics, especially the view that human life is sacred. Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism, yet simultaneously exalted evolutionary "fitness" (especially intelligence and health) as the highest arbiter of morality. Darwinism played a key role in the rise not only of eugenics, but also euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination. This thinking had its biggest impact on Germany, since Hitler built his view of ethics on Darwinian principles, not on nihilism as popularly believed.

So there's a book, so what?

 

[Nik]

Thank you for the confirmation that you have NO coherent reply to this question. You have NO biblical basis for opposing immoral things such as slavery or nazi eugenics. The reason you can't justify opposing governments who engage in immoral/anti-human practices is because the bible often condones these practices..because it orders us to obey all earthly authorities, and because and there is never a justification offered for opposing government policies when they don't violate the commandments.

Your deflection/ad-hominem is a crystal clear sign that your logic has failed. Score one for "the bible is an amoral and useless piece of shit" side. You fail. You lose, and everyone here has seen it.

You didn't even go read my posts, did you. That's okay; everyone else has so they already know where I stand. I'll let you rant and rave as if you think you know what you're talking about. It's entertaining.

What you think the bible says and what it actually says are two different things. I'm opposed to the bible, as you'd know if you were interested in anything more than putting words in my mouth so you can argue against them.

Lots of folks blindly follow what the bible says just because it says bible on the front and that doesn't fly with me. Lots of people twist the bible to support their own version of religion, what they want it to mean. However, you twisting what the bible says to fit your anti-agenda doesn't fly either.

If you're going to argue for or against the bible, at least know what it says and stop taking shit out of context. I'll give you the proper time of day if you stop acting like a child

 

[Perknose]

Overall, I'm not sure where the diatribe came from, but I suspect you are just overcompensating when challenged on a minor point.

Oh, the irony, the exquisite 5 cent's worth of Coin Operated irony! :awe:

 

[zinfamous]

Because?

http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-.../dp/1403965021

From Darwin to Hitler elucidates the revolutionary impact Darwinism had on ethics and morality. Weikart demonstrates that many leading Darwinian biologists and social thinkers in Germany believed that Darwinism overturned traditional Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment ethics, especially the view that human life is sacred. Many of these thinkers supported moral relativism, yet simultaneously exalted evolutionary "fitness" (especially intelligence and health) as the highest arbiter of morality. Darwinism played a key role in the rise not only of eugenics, but also euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination. This thinking had its biggest impact on Germany, since Hitler built his view of ethics on Darwinian principles, not on nihilism as popularly believed.

No, the Weimer republic and the post-war European depression had a much greater effect on Germany than this Darwinian boogeyman. Nothing brought Hitler to power more than economic strife. The ave voter didn't give a shit about jesus or darwin. They just wanted to eat.

you're such a fucking a tool, phineas. Almost as bad as the asshats that you quote, abusing history and facts to amuse their own perverted mission of social and intellectual terrorism.

 

[Nik]

Zinfamous for elite

 

[sandorski]

No, the Weimer republic and the post-war European depression had a much greater effect on Germany than this Darwinian boogeyman. Nothing brought Hitler to power more than economic strife. The ave voter didn't give a shit about jesus or darwin. They just wanted to eat.

you're such a fucking a tool, phineas. Almost as bad as the asshats that you quote, abusing history and facts to amuse their own perverted mission of social and intellectual terrorism.

I have also heard Homosexuality blamed for the Nazis. In another book, the Occult has been blamed for the Nazis.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Oh, the irony, the exquisite 5 cent's worth of Coin Operated irony! :awe:

Just observing your modus operandi. Do carry on.

 

[Perknose]

Just observing your modus operandi. Do carry on.

I want my nickel back, Coin Operated. Or at least three cents change.