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What do you consider fat?

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Originally posted by: Itchrelief
Originally posted by: loki8481
BMI always seemed weird to me. I mean, couldn't you be big but loaded with muscle and be considered obese?
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If you've got so much muscle you are in the obese category without being fat, you're pretty damned ripped.

Now, I would say that it would be pretty easy for someone to be in the overweight category purely from extra muscle.

But to go from normal to obese purely on muscle alone seems unlikely to me. I would think that someone can be slightly overweight but their muscle pushes them into obese-land. But the combination of low body-fat% and an obese-range BMI is probably reserved for the elite level of bodybuilders.

edit: say, for example you have a 5'8" person. 24.9 BMI (just at the edge of normal) is 164 lbs. To get to obese, he would have to be 197lbs for a BMI of 30. Assume he added pure muscle to get there. That's 33lbs of muscle. Not impossible, but it's also not a trivial amount of beefcake. Joe Blow isn't going to get that to happen just by deciding to pop into the gym for 3 weeks.
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Not remotely true. That completely fails to account for body type and muscle density.

For instance, at 5'10" with a bioelectric impedance reading of 14% I weighed 205 pounds. That's a BMI of 29+, but I had a 28" waist and was in very good shape. However, I wasn't 'pretty damned ripped', just big in the legs, chest and shoulders. I didn't look like a body builder (and had next to no cut), just a big guy.

Samoans and other ethnic types are even more affected by their different physiology.
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Itchrelief
Originally posted by: loki8481
BMI always seemed weird to me. I mean, couldn't you be big but loaded with muscle and be considered obese?
Click to expand...

If you've got so much muscle you are in the obese category without being fat, you're pretty damned ripped.

Now, I would say that it would be pretty easy for someone to be in the overweight category purely from extra muscle.

But to go from normal to obese purely on muscle alone seems unlikely to me. I would think that someone can be slightly overweight but their muscle pushes them into obese-land. But the combination of low body-fat% and an obese-range BMI is probably reserved for the elite level of bodybuilders.

edit: say, for example you have a 5'8" person. 24.9 BMI (just at the edge of normal) is 164 lbs. To get to obese, he would have to be 197lbs for a BMI of 30. Assume he added pure muscle to get there. That's 33lbs of muscle. Not impossible, but it's also not a trivial amount of beefcake. Joe Blow isn't going to get that to happen just by deciding to pop into the gym for 3 weeks.
Click to expand...

Not remotely true. That completely fails to account for body type and muscle density.

For instance, at 5'10" with a bioelectric impedance reading of 14% I weighed 205 pounds. That's a BMI of 29+, but I had a 28" waist and was in very good shape. However, I wasn't 'pretty damned ripped', just big in the legs, chest and shoulders. I didn't look like a body builder (and had next to no cut), just a big guy.

Samoans and other ethnic types are even more affected by their different physiology.
Click to expand...

Bioelectric impedance can be horribly inaccurate, but your point is still valid. There are many muscular builds (many power lifters) who have large BMIs but just don't have the cut to look "ripped." Still, they're more muscle than fat given their weight.
 
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Finalnight
BMI greater than 26
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I'm sure Lou and Arnold were morbidly obese during the height of their career :roll:

BMI is bullshit. Body fat percentage is the way to go.
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Yeah, but BMI is only bullshit for probably less than 2% of the population, don't see many arnolds wandering around out here. And I was only referring to females, I really could care less whether a dude is fat or not, has no effect on my life. If a chick is that muscular, probably not interested.
 
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Girls cross the line from normal to fat with the appearance of one of these.
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I don't know, I wouldn't consider any of those girls fat really. It just looks like they made poor choices in jeans (i.e. too tight). /shrug

KT
 
Originally posted by: Itchrelief

But to go from normal to obese purely on muscle alone seems unlikely to me. I would think that someone can be slightly overweight but their muscle pushes them into obese-land. But the combination of low body-fat% and an obese-range BMI is probably reserved for the elite level of bodybuilders.
Click to expand...


No, that wouldn't be the elite level of bodybuilders. That wouldn't even be the competitive level of bodybuilders.

The elite would be considered morbidly obese. Even non-ranking amateurs would be considered obese.
 
Originally posted by: Finalnight

Yeah, but BMI is only bullshit for probably less than 2% of the population, don't see many arnolds wandering around out here.
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You're on crack. Plain and simple, you're on crack or have mastered the art of talking out of your ass.

Only 2% of the population? BMI is bullshit for me, and they would kick me out of a bodybuilding competition for being too scrawny.

I would venture to say that there are plenty of guys on here who lift weights recreationally and they already have enough muscle to put them into the overweight/obese category.



 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Finalnight

Yeah, but BMI is only bullshit for probably less than 2% of the population, don't see many arnolds wandering around out here.
Click to expand...


You're on crack. Plain and simple, you're on crack or have mastered the art of talking out of your ass.

Only 2% of the population? BMI is bullshit for me, and they would kick me out of a bodybuilding competition for being too scrawny.

I would venture to say that there are plenty of guys on here who lift weights recreationally and they already have enough muscle to put them into the overweight/obese category.
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I would venture to say that these guys do not constitute a significant fraction of the population.

BMI has its problems, but it's a very fast and easy way to get a height-corrected measure of fitness using very simple and commonly available measurements. Until bathroom scales start coming with body fat meters that are easy to use and read out in 2 seconds, BMI will continue to be a useful baseline.

BMI is like penicillin...it's outdated, doesn't work in all cases, and is worse than useless for some people, but it's still the cheapest, easiest, and most commonly available solution for most people in most cases. If you're allergic, don't take penicillin. If you work out a lot, don't use BMI. It's a very simple rule to follow and much more logical than calling it useless because it doesn't work in your case.
 
*sigh*

It gets boring, being The Voice Of Reason and Reality around here.

95% of this forum's OT posters are 25 and under; and most probably still virgins.
Out of that 95% that are under 25, 20% or so think they are "Party Studs"; they get stinky shitfaced and stick it to anything with breasts...and think they are studs for doing so.

(HINT_) The next day, with the Beer Goggles off, guess what? SHE'S FAT. Know what else? She was "F-in Fine As Hell!!!" last night, right?

Guys, it's all pink in the dark and chubby chicks need lovin' too. You're no prize yourself. Stop judging and live a little. Have fun and do what feels right; you might just enjoy it.
 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Finalnight

Yeah, but BMI is only bullshit for probably less than 2% of the population, don't see many arnolds wandering around out here.
Click to expand...

You're on crack. Plain and simple, you're on crack or have mastered the art of talking out of your ass.
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Pot. Kettle. Black.

EDIT: Never mind, I just browsed your last month of posts and saw that the vast majority are attack/negative posts laced with anger. Dialogue with you would be saddening at best.
 
Originally posted by: MichaelD

Guys, it's all pink in the dark and chubby chicks need lovin' too. You're no prize yourself. Stop judging and live a little. Have fun and do what feels right; you might just enjoy it.
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if you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife :beer:
 
Originally posted by: Knight7
you know you are fat if you finish eating lunch and wonder what you going to eat for dinner.
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Wrong. I do that and only weigh 135 and am just under 6 foot tall 😛
 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: loki8481
BMI always seemed weird to me. I mean, couldn't you be big but loaded with muscle and be considered obese?
Click to expand...

My BMI is on the verge of overweight, so yes. BMI is a terrible system.
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I think the BMI averages that I've seen thrown out, with a simplistic height:weight description is not a true reflection of BMI. I've only noticed these charts recently, and remember that some time ago, to truly measure one's BMI accurately was rather difficult being that it involved submersion in a large suspension tank--something not easily accessible to all.

I've always thought that concept of BMI was very useful; but if we're just talking about this height:weight ratio as BMI then I'd have to agree that it's BS. Hell, I'm pushing obese on that scale, and anyone that knows me would laugh themselves to sleep over that notion.
 
BMI is a tool, and like all tools, it has it's problems.

We use it in health care for quite a few different calculations, and when used with a bit of common sense, it's quite handy.

I work on the surgical side of the house, so it's used to calculate a lot of anesthetic doses, obviously, taking into account muscle mass VS fat.

It's also used extensively for screening of patients that are candidates for gastric bypass surgery, for those patients, mistaking fat for muscle mass isn't an issue.
 
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: loki8481
BMI always seemed weird to me. I mean, couldn't you be big but loaded with muscle and be considered obese?
Click to expand...

My BMI is on the verge of overweight, so yes. BMI is a terrible system.
Click to expand...

I think the BMI averages that I've seen thrown out, with a simplistic height:weight description is not a true reflection of BMI. I've only noticed these charts recently, and remember that some time ago, to truly measure one's BMI accurately was rather difficult being that it involved submersion in a large suspension tank--something not easily accessible to all.

I've always thought that concept of BMI was very useful; but if we're just talking about this height:weight ratio as BMI then I'd have to agree that it's BS. Hell, I'm pushing obese on that scale, and anyone that knows me would laugh themselves to sleep over that notion.
Click to expand...

BMI is specifically BMI; it's just a ratio of height to weight (wiki).

You're talking about displacement, which is a VERY accurate measure of actual body fat, but it has nothing to do with BMI.
 
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