Of course, no one knows. And those who've died haven't reported back (spare me the talk of spirits bound to our earthly plane, I've never met one nor heard of credible evidence to support them). My guess is that if given time our minds will create a sort of heaven or hell at the moment of death. It could be very simliar to a dream and your conscience and life experiences will determine its content. Normal dreams that only take a half a minute oftentimes seem like they're much longer. You may live your heaven or hell during that time, depending on your beliefs or lack of them. But after that...well no more neural activity so it's a mute point. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Anyway, it's better to focus on life don't you think?
apoppin... you just like your eisgesis. All those passages relate to the physical body, not the spiritual body. If what you say is true, the entire message of the Bible contradicts itself continuously 
I've seen a man dying report "I see Jesus", I've read of men dying contiunally repeating "and God is with us"
I've seen a man dying report "I see Jesus", I've read of men dying contiunally repeating "and God is with us"
Hehe, here we go again.
zonker... you just like your eisgesis. All those passages relate to both the physical body and the spiritual body... until the resurrection (just read thru our old 'hell' discussion for supporting Scripture). If what you say is true, the entire message of the Bible contradicts itself continuously I have nothing else to add, as it's pointless to debate this all over again.
Have a nice day.
zonker... you just like your eisgesis. All those passages relate to both the physical body and the spiritual body... until the resurrection (just read thru our old 'hell' discussion for supporting Scripture). If what you say is true, the entire message of the Bible contradicts itself continuously
I have nothing else to add, as it's pointless to debate this all over again.Have a nice day.
I'm going to heaven where I will hang with Jesus Christ and walk streets of gold and have a "perfect" body.
Bacteria eats your rotting flesh. You decompose and feed the worms. No more, no less. And if you go into the great beyond thinking that anything more than that will happen, you are saaaaaaadly mistaken.
Live for today!
Live for today!
I sugest you all read Aaron 67:32~64, George 267:216~2463 and Fred 26:1~3.141592653. That will explain everything.
<< Nobody knows for sure. >>
Are you sure? How come you can be sure but no one else can, if you dont know it would be better to say so than to make a blanket contradicting statement.
<< the entire message of the Bible contradicts itself continuously >>
I am sick of everyone saying that the Bible contradicts itself, could someone maybe show this or be quiet, no one wants to listen to a person who can open their mouths but doesn't have anything to say.
<< your spirit goes to be with Jesus (MT 28:20) >>
I suggest you read you Bible in context, it is ridiculous to take any piece of literature out of context. Maybe you should read John 3:10-21 and Romans 3:21-31 then you will see that not everyone's spirit goes to be Jesus. Zonker, maybe you should try reading what you post before you post it.
Worms Crawl in, Worms Crawl out, Worms play pinnocle on your snout. Death is going to be interesting, that's all I can say, since no one knows exactly what will happen.
DonaldDuck82:
Don't judge zonker by a post directed specifically at appoppin. His initial post is stated to be from a christian perspective. I think he means, "Here is what I believe happens to a Christian." The following posts reflect an ongoing debate between those two and others that covers several threads. zonker's comments were specific, not general.
zonker and appoppin both believe the Bible is inspired. Neither believe it contradicts itself. Neither believe that all people will spend eternity with Jesus.
Don't judge zonker by a post directed specifically at appoppin. His initial post is stated to be from a christian perspective. I think he means, "Here is what I believe happens to a Christian." The following posts reflect an ongoing debate between those two and others that covers several threads. zonker's comments were specific, not general.
zonker and appoppin both believe the Bible is inspired. Neither believe it contradicts itself. Neither believe that all people will spend eternity with Jesus.
<< Nobody knows for sure. >>
<<Are you sure? How come you can be sure but no one else can, if you dont know it would be better to say so than to make a blanket contradicting statement.>>
I am sure that no other living person knows for sure. Stressing the word "know", and to a lesser extent "for sure". My statement is not contradicting. I simply said that nobody knows what happens to "them" when they die. Knowing that others don't know is not a contradiction.
<<Are you sure? How come you can be sure but no one else can, if you dont know it would be better to say so than to make a blanket contradicting statement.>>
I am sure that no other living person knows for sure. Stressing the word "know", and to a lesser extent "for sure". My statement is not contradicting. I simply said that nobody knows what happens to "them" when they die. Knowing that others don't know is not a contradiction.
I once had a dream I died and went to heaven. All kinds of people were there and they were all happy I had made it, but for some reason it felt wrong and I moved on. Next I came to a place that congratulated me for seeing thru the previous place, but it too felt wrong and I moved on. From then on I just cruised around the universe and felt very very free. I am sure reading stranger in a strange land as a lad had some influence on that dream, but...
BTW, when I am awake I think we just die and that is that.
misspelling
BTW, when I am awake I think we just die and that is that.
misspelling
If you have received the proper sacraments, then you will spend the rest of eternity with Jesus.
Bodies tend to become fly blowen, they alse rot & go mouldy, etc.
Unless of course you're headed for the oven.
Unless of course you're headed for the oven.
In anticipation of my own death, I have willed my body to science fiction: a more palpable form of fantasy.
Everybody will die, that is one thing that we are absolutely certain of. What exactly is death, and what happens in the time after death? From a biological point of view, death is a process, not an event. This is because the different tissues and organs in a living body dies at different rates. We can divide death into somatic death and cellular death. Somatic death is when the individual is not longer a unit of society, because he is irreversibly unconscious, and unaware of himself and the world.
Cellular death is when the cells quits respiration and metabolism. When all cells are dead, the body is dead. But all cells do not die simultaneously, except perhaps in a nuclear explosion. Even in a victim of a car bomb, where the body becomes fragmented, individual cells will continue to live for a few minutes or longer. Different celltypes can live for different times after cardiac arrest. Nervous cells in the brain are particulary vulnerable to oxygen deprivation and will die within 3-7 minutes after complete oxygen deprivation.
In many countries brain stem death is considered legal death, even if the body is kept alive with artificial means. This opens up for organ transplants of heart, liver and lungs, where the donor has to be dead.
What we will discuss in this text, is what happens after cardiac arrest in a body wich is lying dead outdoors (or indoors).
One of the first things that happens after death is that the temperature in the body starts to drop. Before the temperature in the body core drops, a temperature gradient must be established from the outside to the core. After this gradient has become established the body temperature will drop with a theoretically predictably rate. This fact can be used to estimate time of death. Even if one succeeds in predicting when the temperature of the body core was 37 degrees Celsius, one has to remember that the time it takes to form the temperature gradient will vary from individual to individual, and will vary from almost no time, to over two hours.
After the onset of putrefaction (about two days after death) the body temperature will increase again, due to the metabolic activity of the bacteria and other decomposing organisms.
Rigor mortis
Rigor mortis is a well known phenomenon, and is due to a complex chemical reaction in the body. In the living body muscles can function both aerobic and anaerobic. In the dead body muscle cells can only function anaerobically. When muscle cells work anaerobically the end product is lactic acid. In the living body, lactic acid can be converted back, by means of excessive oxygen uptake after an anaerobic exercise. In the dead body this can not happen, and the breakdown of glycogen in the muscles leads irreversebly to high levels of lactic acid in the muscles. This leads to a complex reaction where actin and myosin fuses to form a gel. This gel is responsible for the stiffness felt in the body. This stiffness will not be over before decomposition begins.
As rigor mortis is due to a chemical reaction, the reaction time is due to temperature and the initial concentrations of lactic acid. High metabolic activity in the time just before death, for example when running, leads to higher levels of lactic acid, and shorter time for the rigor mortis to develop. Higher environmental temperature also leads to a shorter reaction time.
In temperate regions the following rules of thumb can be used in estimating death, but must be used with caution:
Temperature of body Stiffness of body Time since death
Warm Not stiff Not dead more than three hours
Warm Stiff Dead between 3 to 8 hours
Cold Stiff Dead between 8 to 36 hours
Cold Not stiff Dead in more than 36 hours
Rigor mortis should never be the only basis for estimating time of death.
After death, a lot of internal organisms in the intestine will become very active. Escherishia coli and others will start multiplying, and the decomposition begins. First the intestine and the blood will be attacked, and when gas formation and other things leads to rupture of the intestine other organs will be attacked.
Organs starts decomposing at different times after death, and may also be used in estimating time of death.
The decomposition of a body can be divided into several stages, even if the duration of each stage will vary a lot:
Stage Description
Initial Decay The cadaver appears fresh externally but is decomposing internally due to the activities of bacteria, protozoa and nematodes present in the animal before death
Putrefaction The cadaver is swollen by gas produces internally, accompanied by odour of decaying flesh
Black putrefaction Flesh of creamy consistence with exposed parts black. Body collapses as gases escapes. Odour of decay very strong
Butyric fermentation Cadaver drying out. Some flesh remains at first, and cheesy odour develops. Ventral surface mouldy from fermentation
Dry decay Cadaver almost dry; slow rate of decay
Cellular death is when the cells quits respiration and metabolism. When all cells are dead, the body is dead. But all cells do not die simultaneously, except perhaps in a nuclear explosion. Even in a victim of a car bomb, where the body becomes fragmented, individual cells will continue to live for a few minutes or longer. Different celltypes can live for different times after cardiac arrest. Nervous cells in the brain are particulary vulnerable to oxygen deprivation and will die within 3-7 minutes after complete oxygen deprivation.
In many countries brain stem death is considered legal death, even if the body is kept alive with artificial means. This opens up for organ transplants of heart, liver and lungs, where the donor has to be dead.
What we will discuss in this text, is what happens after cardiac arrest in a body wich is lying dead outdoors (or indoors).
One of the first things that happens after death is that the temperature in the body starts to drop. Before the temperature in the body core drops, a temperature gradient must be established from the outside to the core. After this gradient has become established the body temperature will drop with a theoretically predictably rate. This fact can be used to estimate time of death. Even if one succeeds in predicting when the temperature of the body core was 37 degrees Celsius, one has to remember that the time it takes to form the temperature gradient will vary from individual to individual, and will vary from almost no time, to over two hours.
After the onset of putrefaction (about two days after death) the body temperature will increase again, due to the metabolic activity of the bacteria and other decomposing organisms.
Rigor mortis
Rigor mortis is a well known phenomenon, and is due to a complex chemical reaction in the body. In the living body muscles can function both aerobic and anaerobic. In the dead body muscle cells can only function anaerobically. When muscle cells work anaerobically the end product is lactic acid. In the living body, lactic acid can be converted back, by means of excessive oxygen uptake after an anaerobic exercise. In the dead body this can not happen, and the breakdown of glycogen in the muscles leads irreversebly to high levels of lactic acid in the muscles. This leads to a complex reaction where actin and myosin fuses to form a gel. This gel is responsible for the stiffness felt in the body. This stiffness will not be over before decomposition begins.
As rigor mortis is due to a chemical reaction, the reaction time is due to temperature and the initial concentrations of lactic acid. High metabolic activity in the time just before death, for example when running, leads to higher levels of lactic acid, and shorter time for the rigor mortis to develop. Higher environmental temperature also leads to a shorter reaction time.
In temperate regions the following rules of thumb can be used in estimating death, but must be used with caution:
Temperature of body Stiffness of body Time since death
Warm Not stiff Not dead more than three hours
Warm Stiff Dead between 3 to 8 hours
Cold Stiff Dead between 8 to 36 hours
Cold Not stiff Dead in more than 36 hours
Rigor mortis should never be the only basis for estimating time of death.
After death, a lot of internal organisms in the intestine will become very active. Escherishia coli and others will start multiplying, and the decomposition begins. First the intestine and the blood will be attacked, and when gas formation and other things leads to rupture of the intestine other organs will be attacked.
Organs starts decomposing at different times after death, and may also be used in estimating time of death.
The decomposition of a body can be divided into several stages, even if the duration of each stage will vary a lot:
Stage Description
Initial Decay The cadaver appears fresh externally but is decomposing internally due to the activities of bacteria, protozoa and nematodes present in the animal before death
Putrefaction The cadaver is swollen by gas produces internally, accompanied by odour of decaying flesh
Black putrefaction Flesh of creamy consistence with exposed parts black. Body collapses as gases escapes. Odour of decay very strong
Butyric fermentation Cadaver drying out. Some flesh remains at first, and cheesy odour develops. Ventral surface mouldy from fermentation
Dry decay Cadaver almost dry; slow rate of decay
Probably Christians go to Allah, Muslims go to Jesus, etc., and everyone gets chastised for believing in the wrong the god. Afterwards Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, etc get together and laugh at all of us.
Seriously though, I think your state of mind continues as is, so if you're not happy now, you won't be happy then.
Seriously though, I think your state of mind continues as is, so if you're not happy now, you won't be happy then.
no comment on that link eh? I have another really good one that I'll post tonight that doesn't question the existance of god, but rather the validity of the bible...interesting
"These lists are meant to identify possible problems in the Bible, especially problems which are inherent in a literalist or fundamentalist interpretation"
convex.. so which are you, a literalist or a fundamentalist?... I think that you are making out as some other type of ist
convex.. so which are you, a literalist or a fundamentalist?... I think that you are making out as some other type of ist
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