What controls Turbo Core in Xeons?

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ksanslev

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2018
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Hello i have a ES E5 2650 v3 on a asrock extreme 3 that i can't change the multiplier on do you guys know how to make it do that ?
 
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foureight84

Member
Nov 5, 2017
57
8
41
ksanslev said:
Hello i have a ES E5 2650 v3 on a asrock extreme 3 that i can't change the multiplier on do you guys know how to make it do that ?
Click to expand...
You can't change multipliers on that chip. It's locked. The only thing you can do is take your bios, remove microcode from that bios for haswell chips, and use one of the efi drivers in this thread to unlock full turbo speed for all cores. you will also need to remove microcode from windows and use vmware's microcode installer and install one of the earlier haswell microcode version 1F or 39. For overclocking you can only do BCLK overclocking which will be limited by the motherboard's capabilities. I've seen people go as high as 10% overclocking but I haven't been able to get past 6% oc.
 
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foureight84

Member
Nov 5, 2017
57
8
41
LightningZ71 said:
BCLK overclocking can sometimes cause problems with PCI devices and USB controllers that are intermittent and hard to diagnose. You might be seeing that. If you're running windows, take a stroll through the event logs and look for system items for unexpected errors.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tip. I did look at window's event logs and noticed DCOM errors which I followed this guide to stop it from happening. http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-3128597/windows-error-10016.html seems that I haven't experience mouse lag yet. I will keep looking though as I know you're right about bclk overclocking messing with PCI and USB controllers. I used to have issues with my USB 3 ports where I couldn't transfer any files from or to my thumb drive.
 
K

ksanslev

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2018
4
0
11
foureight84 said:
You can't change multipliers on that chip. It's locked. The only thing you can do is take your bios, remove microcode from that bios for haswell chips, and use one of the efi drivers in this thread to unlock full turbo speed for all cores. you will also need to remove microcode from windows and use vmware's microcode installer and install one of the earlier haswell microcode version 1F or 39. For overclocking you can only do BCLK overclocking which will be limited by the motherboard's capabilities. I've seen people go as high as 10% overclocking but I haven't been able to get past 6% oc.
Click to expand...
witch EFI driver should i use ? and how do i remove Microcode for haswell btw im a noob at this stuff
 
I

imimixa

Junior Member
Jan 23, 2018
18
2
41
foureight84 said:
You can't change multipliers on that chip. It's locked. The only thing you can do is take your bios, remove microcode from that bios for haswell chips, and use one of the efi drivers in this thread to unlock full turbo speed for all cores. you will also need to remove microcode from windows and use vmware's microcode installer and install one of the earlier haswell microcode version 1F or 39. For overclocking you can only do BCLK overclocking which will be limited by the motherboard's capabilities. I've seen people go as high as 10% overclocking but I haven't been able to get past 6% oc.
Click to expand...

And why exactly 1F, 39, 27 how do they differ from 3C, 3D
 
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AgentFrost

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2018
2
0
46
Hello, everybody,

I need your help!

I've been running a stable system with a Xeon E5-2686v3 for over a year now.
Stepping: C8 // QDF: QG7V (QS).
Board: ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1

Unfortunately my motherboard broke down 2 weeks ago and I got a replacement from ASUS immediately.
-> This board was delivered with BIOS v3803.

The PC boots now with microcode "3D" and the Xeon doesn't reach the 3.5 Ghz turbo-ration anymore.
-> Only max 2.3 Ghz (single and multi-core turbo).

--> Can any of you help out with a 3803 BIOS without microcode?

I made the BIOS settings as they were before changing the board.
I strongly suspect that this "linitation" is related to the new BIOS version and the MC.

===================
Additionally the question, is it still "Up2Date" to overclock the Xeon only via BIOS settings (Max Turbo 35x - All-Cores and Higher Limits)? Or has it proven to be better/more stable to load any efi drivers?

Thank you very much for your help!
 
R

raun0

Junior Member
Apr 2, 2018
15
2
41
My computer keeps crashing randomly expecial in idle or light use! Is that more microcode or power saving issue? It is not depending on voltage offset.
I have feeling it is depending intel microcode 3c / 3d that is loaded on os level.
 
kjboughton

kjboughton

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
330
118
116
raun0 said:
My computer keeps crashing randomly expecial in idle or light use! Is that more microcode or power saving issue? It is not depending on voltage offset.
I have feeling it is depending intel microcode 3c / 3d that is loaded on os level.
Click to expand...

ENABLE C3
DISABLE C6
 
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raun0

Junior Member
Apr 2, 2018
15
2
41
kjboughton said:
ENABLE C3
DISABLE C6
Click to expand...

Thanks for helping!

I Have now these settings:

CPU C State >>> Enable
Enhanced C1 State >>> Enable
CPU C3 Report >>> Enable
CPU C6 Report >>> Disable
Package C State limit >>> C2 State [ Auto / C0/C1 state / C2 state / C6(non Retention) state / C6(Retention) state ]

It is working now :)

Does anybody even now know what is Haswell-E SFR Adjust?
 
kjboughton

kjboughton

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
330
118
116
raun0 said:
Thanks for helping!

I Have now these settings:

CPU C State >>> Enable
Enhanced C1 State >>> Enable
CPU C3 Report >>> Enable
CPU C6 Report >>> Disable
Package C State limit >>> C2 State [ Auto / C0/C1 state / C2 state / C6(non Retention) state / C6(Retention) state ]

It is working now :)

Does anybody even now know what is Haswell-E SFR Adjust?
Click to expand...

Change Package C State limit to C0/C1 state otherwise perfect
 
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raun0

Junior Member
Apr 2, 2018
15
2
41
What is the main reason bottlenecking current flow in these turbos? It is mobos software or hardware limit or CPU hardware limit? I can reach 18x3300Mhz quite easily but that is feeling lika a hard limit for my system.
 
Z

Zladimir

Member
Apr 14, 2011
34
3
71
raun0 said:
Thanks for helping!

I Have now these settings:

CPU C State >>> Enable
Enhanced C1 State >>> Enable
CPU C3 Report >>> Enable
CPU C6 Report >>> Disable
Package C State limit >>> C2 State [ Auto / C0/C1 state / C2 state / C6(non Retention) state / C6(Retention) state ]

It is working now :)

Does anybody even now know what is Haswell-E SFR Adjust?
Click to expand...

Both C3 and C6 (and their package state limits) are broken. Both should be disabled and can lead to a lockup. You can read about it in the Intel Whitepapers.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...cification-updates/xeon-e5-v3-spec-update.pdf

See HSE20, HSE 25 and HSE49 (without C3 no re-entering of C1E).
All three I can observe if I have any C state activated except C1E. As you can see in the revision history, there never came a fix (like with almost all their CPUs).

raun0 said:
What is the main reason bottlenecking current flow in these turbos? It is mobos software or hardware limit or CPU hardware limit? I can reach 18x3300Mhz quite easily but that is feeling lika a hard limit for my system.
Click to expand...

EDP, electrical design point (CPU hardlimit). There are many suggestions for a workaround (mostly by me in previous posts), but no one managed to succeed one so far. I guess mostly it is just too time consuming and unpredictable in the harm to the hardware. An EDP exist for a reason, you know ?

Mostly at the state I am interested in a sandsifter log of an actual Xeon E5 v3. No one published one so far, yet.
 
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raun0

Junior Member
Apr 2, 2018
15
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Zladimir said:
EDP, electrical design point (CPU hardlimit). There are many suggestions for a workaround (mostly by me in previous posts), but no one managed to succeed one so far. I guess mostly it is just too time consuming and unpredictable in the harm to the hardware. An EDP exist for a reason, you know ?

Mostly at the state I am interested in a sandsifter log of an actual Xeon E5 v3. No one published one so far, yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answer. I ran last night sandsifter for you. Here is the file, it is most efficient compress that I have ever done, 238 Mb > 2,3 Mb :D

Tell me if you need the log file with different settings.
 
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ksanslev

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2018
4
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11
Hello i have a problem
then i try to Load v3.efi in to shell it says Wrong cpu but i have a E5 2650 v3 but is this because its an es model
 
K

korzychxp

Junior Member
Oct 26, 2018
6
0
1
I read this topic

And people on Xeons can mod their bioses to change multipliers to maximum on 4 cores.

My problem is that i have QDE4 engineering sample and it is 4770K.

But my motherboard Gigabyte B85 D3H v1.0/1.1 is blocking to overclock it and i can only force max turbo. I can't even change voltage.

Default clock is 2800Mhz and i can force it to 3200Mhz on all cores.

Can anyone help? Maybe we can change microcodes or something.

I tried flashing older bioses but with no profit.
 
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kjboughton

kjboughton

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
330
118
116
Zladimir said:
Both C3 and C6 (and their package state limits) are broken. Both should be disabled and can lead to a lockup. You can read about it in the Intel Whitepapers.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...cification-updates/xeon-e5-v3-spec-update.pdf

See HSE20, HSE 25 and HSE49 (without C3 no re-entering of C1E).
All three I can observe if I have any C state activated except C1E. As you can see in the revision history, there never came a fix (like with almost all their CPUs).
Click to expand...

Let me add my experience.

Having enabled C6 state can and does result in BSOD at idle and/or light loading, regardless of manner of operation.
Typically, I do not care to enable C3; however...

There is a most definitely an OR reference for C3 and C6 states hard-coded into the Power Control Unit (PCU) logic that if neither is enabled limits how cores with turbo boost as a function of loading. If you enabled and disable C3 and run a number of workloads while monitoring with a per-core frequency monitor like HWiNFO64 you will see the difference and it is recognizable and quantifiable.

Furthermore, if you then set the Package C state limit to C2 or lower (I recommend C0/C1 as most of the savings is at C1) I find there is no problem having C3 enabled and I get the best of both world... the higher turbo boosts (higher performance) without the deleterious effects of C3/C6 enabled.

Finally, for this to be entirely successful, I should mention that I must set the Windows Power Plan to High Performance. Balanced Performance perhaps allows C3 at the core level (which cannot be stopped with the in-BIOS Package limit) and BSOD can result. Ergo, keep Power Plan on High Performance and tweek that profile as necessary. Yes, slightly higher power usage but then it's performance we're after, not efficiency.

Zladimir said:
EDP, electrical design point (CPU hardlimit). There are many suggestions for a workaround (mostly by me in previous posts), but no one managed to succeed one so far. I guess mostly it is just too time consuming and unpredictable in the harm to the hardware. An EDP exist for a reason, you know ?
Click to expand...

Nearest I can tell EDP is a hardwired (fused) limit set at time of binning must like how multipliers are set. There's most likely a set of registered banks that are addressed at time of product identification that cannot be changed once set. PCU logic references these registers and imposes final limits. My attempts to defeat have been utterly defeated.

EDIT: Add reference to Windows power plan settings
 
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