What Caused the Rise and Fall of California?

[shortylickens]

The opinions here are pretty interesting, but I already read the book "whats the matter with California?" a year or so ago and I agree with many things said in it.
After I read that I stopped crapping on CA and their way of life and stuff. It was no longer necessary for me to hate.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Honestly, I think that a 'fall' for California would still leave it in better overall shape than most US states.

Living in NY I'm pretty sure we're going to eclipse CA in terms of trouble, and we pay more in total taxes. Wait, that's not enough. We're going to get hit with a billion more.

Yeah, people here are going to be moving to CA for the tax benefits.

 

[glenn1]

Living in NY I'm pretty sure we're going to eclipse CA in terms of trouble, and we pay more in total taxes. Wait, that's not enough. We're going to get hit with a billion more.

Yeah, people here are going to be moving to CA for the tax benefits.

So let me guess - you want taxes raised, but only on the rich? That seems to be the default Democratic/progressive formulation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So let me guess - you want taxes raised, but only on the rich? That seems to be the default Democratic/progressive formulation.

Where did you come up with that gem?

 

[Thump553]

Proposition 13, without a doubt. California has been on a slide downwards ever since this has passed. Allowing one third of the legislature to control your budget is now a proven prescription for disaster. It enables a tyranny of a minority and California has failed ever since to do necessary spending to keep up it's infrastructure.

Sure CA has some unique problems-the cost of undocumented aliens is one for sure, but every region and every state has it's own set of problems. CA residents endlessly complain about taxes, but the fact of the matter is lots of other areas of the country have higher tax levels-with much lower salary and property value scales.

 

[Red Dawn]

The opinions here are pretty interesting, but I already read the book "whats the matter with California?" a year or so ago and I agree with many things said in it.
After I read that I stopped crapping on CA and their way of life and stuff. It was no longer necessary for me to be envious.

Yep it seems that the good life comes with it's costs.

 

[wwswimming]

what are you TALKING about ?!

CALIFORNIA WILL RISE AGAIN !


... a few centimeters. during the next big earthquake. which it doesn't have the money to recover from.

can you imagine if a quake knocked out BART and one of the major bridges ?

 

[Craig234]

what are you TALKING about ?!

CALIFORNIA WILL RISE AGAIN !


... a few centimeters. during the next big earthquake. which it doesn't have the money to recover from.

can you imagine if a quake knocked out BART and one of the major bridges ?

A major quake is coming to the bay area. BART has completed earthquake retrofitting as have the bridges.

But the damage will one of the largest catastrophes in history it's estimated.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Would California be better off separating into two or three states?

 

[Steeplerot]

Signed a ballot initiative to get the CA constitution fixed the other day. It's a start.

 

[Red Dawn]

Would California be better off separating into two or three states?

Three, NorCal, SoCal and fucking LA.

 

[exar333]

Irresponsible leaders. Agree or disagree with Pelosi's viewpoints, but it appears she should work on fixing her own state's woes and not spread them to the whole country.

 

[Jaskalas]

Irresponsible leaders. Agree or disagree with Pelosi's viewpoints, but it appears she should work on fixing her own state's woes and not spread them to the whole country.

Does that "fix" include driving the remaining wealth out of the state?

 

[herkulease]

Sacramento. no one was complain about Prop 13 during the boom. Sacramento was handing away money like crazy instead of fixes roads. They put up charts and graphs with ridiculous projections expecting the boom to last well into the 2000s.

Our problem is just like Congress. They don't have a personal concept money. its not their money. If we need more we'll tax people for it. Its the answer.

Real people can't magically make money appear. we don't spend like crazy. Cutting back on things doesn't not mean instead of a 5% increase you only increase 3%. OMG 2% cut in spending.

If we get a bonus we don't budget our spending so that its always gonna be there. Might buy a tv, fridge etc. But its one time things not go and buy a mansion that requires you to have the bonus every year to pay for the mortgage and property taxes.

Our Congressional delegation is also rather pathetic. Senators Boxer and Feinstein have been in office for nearly 20 years. Unless they retire they'll be there for more.

about half of our house reps have been there since 93, the other half or so since 2000.

Where the hell is our bacon? Hell where's our "cornhusker kickback" type stuff.

I don't expect it to come true but hell shows us you trying something.

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

Our problem is just like Congress. They don't have a personal concept money. its not their money.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

 

[bfdd]

Three, NorCal, SoCal and fucking LA.

Fuck that, Norcal, Socal, Inland Empire. LA is Socal bitch don't you forget.

 

[Zebo]

Proposition 13, without a doubt. California has been on a slide downwards ever since this has passed. Allowing one third of the legislature to control your budget is now a proven prescription for disaster. It enables a tyranny of a minority and California has failed ever since to do necessary spending to keep up it's infrastructure.

Sure CA has some unique problems-the cost of undocumented aliens is one for sure, but every region and every state has it's own set of problems. CA residents endlessly complain about taxes, but the fact of the matter is lots of other areas of the country have higher tax levels-with much lower salary and property value scales.

California has the highest state, sales, use, excise (gas), sin, and utilities taxes in the Nation. The only thing they have lower is *some* property taxes - and only if you were lucky enough to own long term or bought in a slump. They are taxed too much already. Also, guess what, most of these taxes fall disproportionately on the poor and working class since $8 in tax to fill up your tank hurts a family making $40K a hell of a lot more than one making $200K. Hell the top state income tax rate kicks in at a measly 50K!

Where does it stop? California needs to address spending. Specifically state retires making hundreds of thousands a year. The prison system. The educational system.

 

[Zebo]

I pay 2% - 2.25% in IL. I also am paying on the 2008 valuation.

I don't feel taxed out of my home.

You would if it shot up 200% in a few short years. This happens all the time in Ca. 91' was low, then skyrocketed till about 2000, then rose again until current crisis. It's like a roller coaster in Ca and people were getting put out of their homes prior to prop13.

Now I recognize some of it should change. Not quite fair someone like my parents who bought in 1966 pay $400 a year and next door neighbor pays $8000. Not quite fair many old corporations who trusted their property back in 1976 still pay those rates since trusts never die despite turning properties over and over. But it needs sensible stops to not shove people out during the next boom.

 

[Vic]

Sacramento. no one was complain about Prop 13 during the boom. Sacramento was handing away money like crazy instead of fixes roads. They put up charts and graphs with ridiculous projections expecting the boom to last well into the 2000s.

Our problem is just like Congress. They don't have a personal concept money. its not their money. If we need more we'll tax people for it. Its the answer.

Real people can't magically make money appear. we don't spend like crazy. Cutting back on things doesn't not mean instead of a 5% increase you only increase 3%. OMG 2% cut in spending.

If we get a bonus we don't budget our spending so that its always gonna be there. Might buy a tv, fridge etc. But its one time things not go and buy a mansion that requires you to have the bonus every year to pay for the mortgage and property taxes.

Our Congressional delegation is also rather pathetic. Senators Boxer and Feinstein have been in office for nearly 20 years. Unless they retire they'll be there for more.

about half of our house reps have been there since 93, the other half or so since 2000.

Where the hell is our bacon? Hell where's our "cornhusker kickback" type stuff.

I don't expect it to come true but hell shows us you trying something.

California spends more on its roads than any other state in the country, even accounting for population, size, miles of road, and the state's current budget crisis. In fact, Caltrans' budget is almost as much as the USDOT's.

The "where the hell is our bacon" attitude is my winner for what's wrong with California. Because what you posted in your 4th paragraph is EXACTLY what happened in California. A couple of good years and everyone's buying mansions and rental properties. Like any hyperdemocracy, the Californian government mirrors its people.

 

[herkulease]

California spends more on its roads than any other state in the country, even accounting for population, size, miles of road, and the state's current budget crisis. In fact, Caltrans' budget is almost as much as the USDOT's.

Uhh where did you get that from? Caltrans budget is about 13 billion dollars.

US DOT is 70 billion dollars.

 

[Steeplerot]

Fuck that, Norcal, Socal, Inland Empire. LA is Socal bitch don't you forget.

I propose NoCal back to its original name Yerba Buena (Good Herb), Central Valley -Methlandia and Los Angeles renamed just plain old "Fucking LA". ^_^

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Should one of the new states be renamed "Hashville" or "Grassland"?

 

[shortylickens]

Yep it seems that the good life comes with it's costs.

I wont argue with your point but how does that relate to what I said?

 

[Craig234]

It is something to note that while Republicans are worst in power, they can be very damaging when allowed to be obstructionists as well, with vetos of 40 in the Senate of 1/3 in California.

I suppose if they didn't have the ability to veto as a small minority, their unwillingness to be a responsible miniority party would lead them to burn down the capitols or shoot Dems.

As great leader said, extremism in the defense of the rich is no vice. Or something like that.

 

[lothar]

You fail to see it because you are a follower of a misguided ideology that the best thing we could do is to cripple the government's agreement to agreeon almost anything and all but shut down elected government.

This is not a good solution, it's a disaster. You don't know how to deal with the real problems, like the corruption of the system by the money of the rich, so you offer another solution, blow the place up.

Like many libertarians, you have a misguided idea of how great it would be to not have almost any government, because your fantasy has seduced you while you ignore the real result more than a drunken horny divorcee ignores the reasons he got divorced in the first place when he calls his ex in the middle of the night to get laid and remarry.

You went on to praise the stagnation in recent history - without noticing that in many ways the government's has been a historic disaster where the only the agreed on was to serve the rich, who have done very well while the house burns down for lack of any agreement how to put out the fire. The last 30 years have seen very little constructive programs able to get passed compared to the many in history that have made the nation stronger. As things fall apart and the uncontrolled people like Wall Street run amok stealing the silverware, you say 'great'.

How has the US government managed to survive the past century with the 67 vote filibuster requirement in the US Senate?
Are you saying they haven't done anything?

I read somewhere that the filibuster requirement was reduced to 67 votes in the 1910's and again to 60 votes in the 1970's.
Does that mean before the 1900's ANY single senator could have done a filibuster and suceeded since there was no vote to overcome it?
How has the US managed to survive the past 200+ years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster#United_States