What can we do as the public ...

[IdioticBuffoon]

With the threat of a war with Iran looming over us, what can we, as the public do to prevent something like this from happening?

We all saw the mass protests in almost every metropolis on earth in opposition to the Iraq war before it started. What was accomplished? Nothing ... in terms of its palpable effects on the ground. The war started, there was and continues to be tremendous loss of life. We are all swithering in our homes about what happended but what the people in power wanted to carry out ... it came to pass, regardless.

What does it take for public protests to make a difference? Obviously it can't change the minds of the politicians and those in power who want the war or the military conflict to take place. Who spend the months and weeks before the war meticulously planning for it. Obviously, public protests, no matter how large and widespread they are, do not affect their inclinations one bit.

Then what's left for the public to do? Do the public protests have to get dramatic, violent, hostile to have a tangible effect desired by the public?

What CAN we do when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

 

[johnnobts]

simple, you can write the iranian government and ask them to stop nuclear development, and give UN access to its facilities.... better yet, you can MOVE to iran and let your voice be heard by voting in their SUPER-FAIR elections.

Everybody complains about U.S. elections being corrupt and innacurate, surely Iran's elections are more reliable...

 

[sandorski]

Don't put idiots and Yesmen/women of idiots into positions of power.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Don't put idiots and Yesmen/women of idiots into positions of power.

WOW! You just described the Bush administration.

 

[Stunt]

Vote for the right people in mid-term elections

I doubt Iran will be handled by the US as they are overstretched as is, Bush and the Iraq war is hugely unpopular and the current fiscal state of the US will not handle such a mission.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon
With the threat of a war with Iran looming over us, what can we, as the public do to prevent something like this from happening?

We all saw the mass protests in almost every metropolis on earth in opposition to the Iraq war before it started. What was accomplished? Nothing ... in terms of its palpable effects on the ground. The war started, there was and continues to be tremendous loss of life. We are all swithering in our homes about what happended but what the people in power wanted to carry out ... it came to pass, regardless.

What does it take for public protests to make a difference? Obviously it can't change the minds of the politicians and those in power who want the war or the military conflict to take place. Who spend the months and weeks before the war meticulously planning for it. Obviously, public protests, no matter how large and widespread they are, do not affect their inclinations one bit.

Then what's left for the public to do? Do the public protests have to get dramatic, violent, hostile to have a tangible effect desired by the public?

What CAN we do when faced when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

Topic Title: What can we do as the public ...
Topic Summary: ... to prevent the government from following a certain course of action?

Americans Republican Sheep will continue to nothing and that is good.

Sooner U.S. falls the better.

 

[Lemon law]

Any masses demonstration can be effective---we saw 500,000 come onto the streets of LA over immigration recently---it was similar street demonstrations that helped end VietNam---bur these are rare things---I wrote countless letters in opposition to the Bolton Nomination---ands saw my Hodie Doodie lookalike Senator Lugar still make a fool out of himself on national telivision as he pandered to Bush.

But mail to your congress people and funding the opposition is often all he average person can do.---and thats something to be ignored when Lobbying money is at being passed around. Congress no longer does the peoples businesss--they work and are paid by lobbyists.

Leaving the best alternative to throw the rascals out come November---and get a new crop of rascal wannabees--who will have to go through a learning curve before they learn to be true rascals.

But in a true national movement--something this country has not really seen--a normal garment or just a fabric color can be a symbol---an example world be organge vs. green in Ireland--the best the US can come up with is political buttons and bumper stickers----but when they predominate and are everywhere---politicians take notice.

But when people become sheep and don't speak up--thats when politicians invent the silent majority---that always supports the politician in question.

 

[arsbanned]

VOTE against every Republican running.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Protest is a BIG part of it. Our protests lately (except for immigration) have been lackluster at best. We NEED turnout in order to make a scene.

Letter writing and petitions are another option, and don't overlook local actions. A number of communities are now passing local legislation (specifically focused on getting troops out of Iraq for the most part) intended to show displeasure with the administration. While they have no actual enforcement potential, enough counties doing so will send a clear message.

The next step up is still undecided, but personally I'm leaning towards a massive non-taxation drive. If enough people refuse to pay taxes to support an unrepresentative government, it can't last long before action would be taken (and the country is certainly not in a position to go after millions of non-payers). I would say that any further saber rattling towards Iran and a campaign should be launched to get people to claim massive exemptions on their paychecks, and then refuse to pay their yearly income tax along with a letter explaining why. It's about the only non-violent protest I can think of for a next step.

If all that fails, then it's time for revolution. It's ugly, but that's the only answer.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon
What CAN we do when faced when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

Simple.

Stop paying war taxes. War goes away.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Vote for the right people in mid-term elections

I doubt Iran will be handled by the US as they are overstretched as is, Bush and the Iraq war is hugely unpopular and the current fiscal state of the US will not handle such a mission.

Vote for the right people. Gee how many times have I heard that one before. :roll:


Voting is the problem, not the solution! If no one voted, how would these fraud artists get the idea they can boss other people around?

 

[1prophet]

Some of the posters mentioned the immigration protests, they were so dramatic because people felt something that finally hit home and politicians took notice. Last time people protested nonstop and held their governments feet to the fire was during the Vietnam War when men could be drafted against their will.

Today most have become apathetic for the most part since we don't perceive a direct effect of the governments actions except when it comes to our paycheck.

That is why Charles Rangel introduced a bill to reinstated the draft before the war in Iraq, because he understood that when one has to share the pain of their actions they think longer and harder before they act.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/">"I truly believe that those who make the decision and those who support the United States going into war would feel more readily the pain that's involved, the sacrifice that's involved, if they thought that the fighting force would include the affluent and those who historically have avoided this great responsibility," Rangel said.

"Those who love this country have a patriotic obligation to defend this country," Rangel said. "For those who say the poor fight better, I say give the rich a chance."

</a>

 

[Wheezer]

so by re-instating the draft, you really belive in your heart of hearts that the "rich" will no doubt HAVE to send thier sons and daughters to war?

Didn't happen in WW2
Didn't happen in Korea
Didn't happen in Vietnam

So how exatly is a draft this time around going to change things? it won't

As long as people have money the sons and daughters are safe from a draft.

The fact is a draft will change nothing.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
so by re-instating the draft, you really belive in your heart of hearts that the "rich" will no doubt HAVE to send thier sons and daughters to war?

Didn't happen in WW2
Didn't happen in Korea
Didn't happen in Vietnam

So how exatly is a draft this time around going to change things? it won't

As long as people have money the sons and daughters are safe from a draft.

The fact is a draft will change nothing.

Well, a draft WOULD very likely increase to an incredible degree the protesting that was going on...maybe back to 1960's levels. Maybe get some recruiter and meps stations firebombed, etc.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
so by re-instating the draft, you really belive in your heart of hearts that the "rich" will no doubt HAVE to send thier sons and daughters to war?

Didn't happen in WW2
Didn't happen in Korea
Didn't happen in Vietnam

So how exatly is a draft this time around going to change things? it won't

As long as people have money the sons and daughters are safe from a draft.

The fact is a draft will change nothing.

You need to look beyond the few rich that avoid serving and think of the millions that are not interested in what happens overseas now, having to sit up and take notice and participate in the government since its actions can directly affect them. It would make many politicians think twice if not more before going to war.

 

[Lemon law]

Its a sad fact that the war option is always popular------at first---until the butcher bills start to come due--then the wat protester in a given country are always accused of being unpatroitic---it so happened in VietNam--one of our countries longest wars.

And VietNam would have been over quicker if Nixon had not bribed the families of the middle class by ending the draft.

But this Iraq war is the brainchild of a pile of neo-cons who have never been in the military--never even come close to the horror of seeing a buddy of theirs, right next to them, get blown away and go from living to dead in the space of a second.

But we the people let our liar in chief lead us to war---now we must step up to the plate and stop it because GWB is far too stupid to see the what everyone else sees.----at a chartable best the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Now we must fix Iraq before we leave--or the consequences will be even greater.

Let those without sin cast the first stone----now countless are dead with more to come.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Don't put idiots and Yesmen/women of idiots into positions of power.

How do you propose to do that? Where I am, it was around 80% for Bush in '04. I did not contribute to that, but it also means I basically have no power as a voter--I know very well those around me, in large numbers, will go for the candidate that appears to be more conservative and security-oriented. So my being there helps it be a vote, but not for the person I prefer.

Now, why exactly, should I even bother voting?

I think the tax thing could just work, however. Note that taking to the streets will be laughed at. Look at the immigration issue. People here are being voerworked, and our economy requires it. Refuse to work, even for a short period of time, and The Man? must take notice.

 

[CessnaFlyer]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Don't put idiots and Yesmen/women of idiots into positions of power.

We learned that lesson with Clinton!

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon
What CAN we do when faced when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

Simple.

Stop paying war taxes. War goes away.

Sure, if everyone quits their job there will be no war taxes paid. Good luck with that.

 

[conjur]

Every man and woman child would have to march upon Washington and even then these maniacal ideologues will end up doing whatever their failed ideology directs them to do (along with the "voice of God" :roll: )

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon
What CAN we do when faced when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

Simple.

Stop paying war taxes. War goes away.

Sure, if everyone quits their job there will be no war taxes paid. Good luck with that.

And why not? a lot of democratic countries have general strikes when something is wrong.

Cops and essential healthcare people stay working, everyone else shuts it down, the government would roll over like a kicked dog in a day or two. I betcha. Anyone know of a general strike that did not work?

It does not take much motivation to get people to just stay home, I don't know what is up with americans not doing it more often.

Imminent Domain, remember that? Almost everyone agrees that was lame, and we let it happen, what is sad is that someone could set up another reich here and americans would sit on their asses on and b1tch about who won the aryan idol show this week.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: IdioticBuffoon
What CAN we do when faced when such unilateral and exclusionary steps are taken by the government?

Simple.

Stop paying war taxes. War goes away.

Sure, if everyone quits their job there will be no war taxes paid. Good luck with that.

And why not? a lot of democratic countries have general strikes when something is wrong.

Cops and essential healthcare people stay working, everyone else shuts it down, the government would roll over like a kicked dog in a day or two. I betcha. Anyone know of a general strike that did not work?

It does not take much motivation to get people to just stay home, I don't know what is up with americans not doing it more often.

Imminent Domain, remember that? Almost everyone agrees that was lame, and we let it happen, what is sad is that someone could set up another reich here and americans would sit on their asses on and b1tch about who won the aryan idol show this week.

You really don't even need to go that far. Change your payroll exemptions so that you lose very little to automatic deductions, then refuse to file/pay come tax time. That way you keep your job and income (in fact it goes up substantially) while the government gets very little (ss/med/fica). If only a thousand people do it they'll likely be subpoenad, but if a million people do it they'll probably achieve change.

 

[Genx87]

Vote

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Vote

Voting does crap, lets say by some nightmare for bushbots everywhere hillary got elected in 08, through our great votingsystem we would in effect have a dual monarchy for the last 24 years... Yeah, some choice. Hey, then theres jeb...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87
Vote

Voting does crap, lets say by some nightmare for bushbots everywhere we would in effect have a dual monarchy for 24 years? Yeah, some choice.

Voting is your way to sending a msg.