What can I say but...Berkeley?

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< every new great idea is critisized by close-minded people in the beginning, I applaud her bravery. >>

So by that statement you agree with her.

Then why don't you explain what should have been done about the terrorist attack?

And don't say Cry to the EU since the Taliban never answered to anyone.

Fausto · Mar 19, 2002

<< Thats right. I and other base it off events that happen at Berkeley, from this latest standing ovation for a socialist, to the a conservative paper being raided and papers destroyed, to a school funded sexuality program that took the class off campus into strip clubs.

So yesm, I base it off the paper and televison because they report what happens there. Your arguement makes no sense. >>

No, it makes perfect sense. All you know or care to know about UCB is what you've been reading in the papers of late. And most of what they report is designed to be sensational enough to hold an audience, so you won't see much about what kind of research they Physics department is doing these days as it's just too boring for most Americans. You can't be bothered to learn anything else about the school and it's academics because you just don't care; you might have to take them off your tidy little "Liberal Stuff That's BAD" shelf if you did and that would unnecessarily complicate your life, right? I never contended that Berk was anything other than a very liberal institution, but again, it's not the entire campus running around in loincloths waving red flags and immolating themselves in protest of the treatment of spotted owls. You seem to forget that they are one of the better Universities in terms of academics in the US; or does 7 Nobel Laureates, 122 members of the National Academy of Sciences, 18 MacArthur Fellows, 77 Fulbright Scholars and 3 Pulitzer Prize winners not quite live up to your lofty standards?

<< Actually I think you are the more pathetic one trying to screw the truth. Berkeley is one of the most liberal colleges in America, PERIOD. This latest incident doesn't change that fact and your pathetic attempt at demeaning people who bring the facts to the table makes you look angry and ignorant. >>

What "truth" am I trying to warp exactly? You and I agree that Berkeley is a very liberal institution. The pathetic thing is that this fact apparently dominates your thoughts during your waking hours. Don't you think there might be some bigger fish to fry out there for someone as outspoken about politics as yourself? Or is it just easier and safer for you to stand on your little ATOT soapbox, point your virtual finger and scream "LIBERAL!!!BAD!!" at easy targets like UCB? I say again, if you feel so strongly about all this, why don't you get off your ass and become an active part of the political process?

And for the record, you are pretty much the definition of "angry and ignorant" my friend.

Fausto

novon · Mar 19, 2002

Texmaster, we've already had this discussion, it really doesn't matter what I think because from your point of view the only option is violence and revenge. Only you can try to see the situation from a new perspective.

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<<

<< And for the love of god, don't paint me as a liberal. I happen to form my own views on subjects INDEPENDENT of political parties. On some issues, I see things liberally and on some conservatively. >>

Right on, I've expressed my views on maybe a few main subjects on these boards and I'm automatically labeled "liberal." I hate labels. >>

Spare us Novon. You ARE a Liberal. I have never seen you once take a conservative point of view.

novon · Mar 19, 2002

amen to Fausto1

novon · Mar 19, 2002

Texmaster, your very notion that your are either liberal or conservative, with us or against us, american or "them" is what is holding your compassion prisoner.

Hubris · Mar 19, 2002

>>Leave her alone?? She is the one making speeches and doing the voicing of her opinion.<<

And you guys are the ones in here crucifying her for voicing said opinion.

>>She got reelected because of the sheer number of liberals in Berkeley. I would open up a combination Berkinstock store and fondu restaurant there but I could not be with that many liberals a day and remain sane.<<

SO??? That's the whole FVCKING point! She WAS representing her voters when she voted against the proposition. Agree, disagree, she was doing her JOB.

>>Just because you hear an inner voice doesn't mean you have to listen to it and take what it says as the gospel...There is something called a sacrifice for a greater good.<<

Your idea of the greater good and her idea of the greater good differ. So?

>>If what I hear as an inner voice is harmful biting and downright treasonous am I going to voice the opinion<<

<>

Again...seeing the 99.9% as "true Americans" is your perogative. And I think it would be a greater betrayal of the trust put into her if she voted merely to go along with the crowd, even though she thought it was wrong. Since when did lemming mentality become an asset?

>>It's called common courtesy to those that were victimized by 9-11 either directly or indirectly...Swallow your pride and think about those 300 firemen who died while risking their lives to save others. Think about those civilians on the plane in Pennsylvania who refused to listen to their inner voice which was afraid, then rose up and struck a blow for America in one its darkest hours.<<

Will killing the terrorists (some of whom died as well) bring their families back? I'm not saying the war on terrorism is wrong; I think it's right. But dear god, the families will still have to wake up without their loved ones. Never did she say she didn't think justice was right, she merely didn't think this was the way to go about it. And with some of the war powers that were granted, I would tend to agree. But her vote does not directly harm anyone, and is seen as another point of view, which is exactly what this country was founded upon.

Stop trying to rape the Constitution while you wave your flag.

>>Bottom line is "Support America not your selfish inner voice." <<

Lemming, lemming, lemming

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< Texmaster, we've already had this discussion, it really doesn't matter what I think because from your point of view the only option is violence and revenge. >>

You're damn right. And until you can provide a real alternative to get through to these primitive people, that is the only way. Crying about it not being the answer without a viable alternative is meaningless.

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< Texmaster, your very notion that your are either liberal or conservative, with us or against us, american or "them" is what is holding your compassion prisoner. >>

This is war. We are not talking about a political policy you want in place.

Don't dodge the question just because you don't have a real alternative solution.

UltraQuiet · Mar 19, 2002

<< No, that's not what I meant. My point was merely that roasting her over the fire for doing something that is the contitutionally protected right of people in this country is foolish. Are you saying that if you received DEATH THREATS for voicing your opinion, you'd be fine with it? Well then, you're a better person than me. Disagree with her politics, that's fine, but don't bitch about the fact that she voiced her opinion. That's what this country is all about >>

Thanks for clarifying. I don't agree with anything she said. Receiving death threats is BS and no I wouldn't be fine with it. Personally I would prefer that she voiced her complaints in private, not in public. We have troops on the ground and a unified goverment/chain of command is essential. JMO

Notice I used the word prefer in the post. I'm not insisting on it or lambasting her for doing it or questioning her right to do it. I am simply saying I would prefer she did it differently. If our enemies get the impression we are not unified they wil use that against us (VietNam). The people that ultimately suffer are the troops on the ground.

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< Will killing the terrorists (some of whom died as well) bring their families back? I'm not saying the war on terrorism is wrong; I think it's right. >>

Dont don't try to pull that Moronic question about Vengence since he never even used the word.

<< But dear god, the families will still have to wake up without their loved ones. Never did she say she didn't think justice was right, she merely didn't think this was the way to go about it. >>

Yet she can't provide a real viable alternative. Can't you see why people would be angry at someone who claims a solution is wrong without providing a real alternative?

<< And with some of the war powers that were granted, I would tend to agree. >>

Fine, then provide all of us here with a REAL viable alternative than the action already taken. Your position is a JOKE if you cannot come up with one.

<< But her vote does not directly harm anyone, and is seen as another point of view, which is exactly what this country was founded upon.
Stop trying to rape the Constitution while you wave your flag. >>

It is EXTREMELY harmful if you side with an opinion without proviiding a solution to a situation as dangerous as this one is.

And I find it ironic you call people who critisize her "raping the constitution" when you turn around and do the exact same thing to their opinions on her.

Hubris · Mar 19, 2002

<< Will killing the terrorists (some of whom died as well) bring their families back? I'm not saying the war on terrorism is wrong; I think it's right. >>

Dont don't try to pull that Moronic question about Vengence since he never even used the word.[/i] >>

One doesn't need to use a word for it to be implied. And vengeance is wrong, in my opinion. However, in this case, it can and will prevent further loss of life.

<< And with some of the war powers that were granted, I would tend to agree. >>

Fine, then provide all of us here with a REAL viable alternative than the action already taken. Your position is a JOKE if you cannot come up with one.[/i] >>

Maybe I should more accurately say that the ABUSE of some of the powers given scares me. But that's true of everything, so I withdraw my blanket statement.

<<It is EXTREMELY harmful if you side with an opinion without proviiding a solution to a situation as dangerous as this one is.>>

I agree, which is why I don't agree with what she said. Hear that? I DO NOT AGREE WITH HER. I merely support her right to say it.

>>And I find it ironic you call people who critisize her "raping the constitution" when you turn around and do the exact same thing to their opinions on her.<<

Listen to me closely; I'm not calling people who criticize her raping the Constitution. I'm calling the fact that Nitemare seems to think she should go along with the majority simply because they ARE the majority raping the Constitution. Not his opinion, but the idea itself. I don't care what you or anyone else SAYS, but your IDEAS, if implemented, would be raping the Const.

burnedout · Mar 19, 2002

Right on, I've expressed my views on maybe a few main subjects on these boards and I'm automatically labeled "liberal." I hate labels.

Novon = ATOT's reknown apologist.

There exists within a sovereign nation an aspect known as justice. The stupid@ss bleeding heart liberals are the one's placing false labels on justice and calling it revenge.

flavio · Mar 19, 2002

<< Thats right. I and other base it off events that happen at Berkeley, from this latest standing ovation for a socialist, to the a conservative paper being raided and papers destroyed, to a school funded sexuality program that took the class off campus into strip clubs. >>

I and I will base my view that Tex is a narrow-minded generalizing fool who would probably blame liberals if one of his shoes comes untied from statements like this.

The paper was a racist issue and the school wasn't even aware of what the curriculum in the sexuality program was because it was put together by a handful of students. It was promptly cancelled when they got the information. I wonder how hard it will be for me to find some Texas news to slant?

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< One doesn't need to use a word for it to be implied. And vengeance is wrong, in my opinion. However, in this case, it can and will prevent further loss of life. >>

<< And with some of the war powers that were granted, I would tend to agree. >>

Once again, he never even implied it. You Assumed that what he meant. And assumption is the mother of all foul-ups. Is punishment of criminals vengence as well?

<< Maybe I should more accurately say that the ABUSE of some of the powers given scares me. But that's true of everything, so I withdraw my blanket statement. >>

Ok.

<< I agree, which is why I don't agree with what she said. Hear that? I DO NOT AGREE WITH HER. I merely support her right to say it. >>

Good. But but also said you supported it. Only now how you clarified that its her freedom to say it that you support.

<< Listen to me closely; I'm not calling people who criticize her raping the Constitution. I'm calling the fact that Nitemare seems to think she should go along with the majority simply because they ARE the majority raping the Constitution. Not his opinion, but the idea itself. I don't care what you or anyone else SAYS, but your IDEAS, if implemented, would be raping the Const. >>

What ideas that I or Nightmare would implement are you talking about? That doesn't make an ounce of sense.

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<< Thats right. I and other base it off events that happen at Berkeley, from this latest standing ovation for a socialist, to the a conservative paper being raided and papers destroyed, to a school funded sexuality program that took the class off campus into strip clubs. >>

<< I and I will base my view that Tex is a narrow-minded generalizing fool who would probably blame liberals if one of his shoes comes untied from statements like this. >>

Show me one place where I said ALL students at Berkeley are Liberals.

Back up your Mornic and ignorant statement.

<< The paper was a racist issue and the school wasn't even aware of what the curriculum in the sexuality program was because it was put together by a handful of students. >>

Wrong. Nothing in that article was about race but about what a group of kids stood for and their response was to try and squash the first ammendment rights of a deferring opinion by destroying newspapers. You need to read more.

And as far as the sexuality class Wrong again. It was a supported class with college credit. The school was well aware of the program. They just made the idiotic mistake to allow students to run it unsupervised.

<< It was promptly cancelled when they got the information. >>

And it was reopened last Month.

You really need to read more.

<< I wonder how hard it will be for me to find some Texas news to slant? >>

First you have to read. And judging from your knowledge base on the Berkeley incidents, you don't read often enough.

Vic · Mar 19, 2002

<

David Slocum
Patriot[/b] >>

David Slocum posts on the Hardforum as [nCn]Preacher. You should look him up, the two of you might get along.

As for this whole thread here, what is your issue? Out of almost 500 votes, one person dissented. One. Does that threaten you? Does that concern you? Is that contrary to your ideals of American freedom?
While I may not personally agree with the opinions of Ms. Lee, I find it hard not to admire her conviction and harder still not to laugh at how she upsets psuedo-conservatives like yourself, Texmaster. I hear your cry, "This is America, damnit! Dissent is not allowed! Why are you different? Why are you this way? If you don't get in line, we'll lock you away!" If you only knew just how this reveals you for the Nazi that you really are....

Nitemare · Mar 19, 2002

<< >>If what I hear as an inner voice is harmful biting and downright treasonous am I going to voice the opinion<<

<>

Again...seeing the 99.9% as "true Americans" is your perogative. And I think it would be a greater betrayal of the trust put into her if she voted merely to go along with the crowd, even though she thought it was wrong. Since when did lemming mentality become an asset? >>

Rules change when innocent American blood is spilt on American soil by heathen radicals who wouldn't know Allah unless Bin Laden pointed him out to them. If a neighbor lost a child to a vicious murder do you go and knock on her door and try to tell her to just let it go and not seek vengeance and justice?

<< >>It's called common courtesy to those that were victimized by 9-11 either directly or indirectly...Swallow your pride and think about those 300 firemen who died while risking their lives to save others. Think about those civilians on the plane in Pennsylvania who refused to listen to their inner voice which was afraid, then rose up and struck a blow for America in one its darkest hours.<<

Will killing the terrorists (some of whom died as well) bring their families back? I'm not saying the war on terrorism is wrong; I think it's right. But dear god, the families will still have to wake up without their loved ones. Never did she say she didn't think justice was right, she merely didn't think this was the way to go about it. And with some of the war powers that were granted, I would tend to agree. But her vote does not directly harm anyone, and is seen as another point of view, which is exactly what this country was founded upon.

Stop trying to rape the Constitution while you wave your flag.

>>Bottom line is "Support America not your selfish inner voice." <<

Lemming, lemming, lemming >>

Waking up knowing that your loved one was the victim of murder is bad...Waking up knowing that your loved one was the victim of murder and someone is advocating that the killer walk is even worse.

Her vote did harm as a unanimous vote would have been wonderful...her lone dissenting vote would be like having a brand new Ferrari with all the bells and whistles, fueled and ready to go...except when you put the key in the car and turn..it breaks off, thus ruining the moment.

It is her American right to vote..I'm simply criticizing the way she voted and then standing up afterwards.."Look at me. Look at me. I stood up to the man"

I'd rather be a lemming than a liberal any day!

flavio · Mar 19, 2002

<< Wrong. Nothing in that article was about race but about what a group of kids stood for and their response was to try and squash the first ammendment rights of a deferring opinion by destroying newspapers. You need to read more. >>

The Hispanic kids were against the white kids, maybe you didn't read well enough. blah blah blah. and the school did not support the conduct in the class but may actually support a class on sexuality. Whether the class was opened again or not only has meaning if the same conduct will go on.

Texmaster · Mar 19, 2002

<<

<

David Slocum
Patriot[/b] >>

David Slocum posts on the Hardforum as [nCn]Preacher. You should look him up, the two of you might get along.

As for this whole thread here, what is your issue? Out of almost 500 votes, one person dissented. One. Does that threaten you? Does that concern you? Is that contrary to your ideals of American freedom?
While I may not personally agree with the opinions of Ms. Lee, I find it hard not to admire her conviction and harder still not to laugh at how she upsets psuedo-conservatives like yourself, Texmaster. I hear your cry, "This is America, damnit! Dissent is not allowed! Why are you different? Why are you this way? If you don't get in line, we'll lock you away!" If you only knew just how this reveals you for the Nazi that you really are.... >>

Accusing someone of being a Nazi is a VERY serious charge. I'm sure growing up in MTV and VH1 land you probably don't know what the Nazis were all about so I'll forgive the accusation.

I care if someone dessents during wartime you bet. Especially if they don't have an alternative to the problem they are comaplaining about.

Quit while your behind, your ignorance on the subject and the accusation you made is laughable.

Mar 19, 2002

<< While I may not personally agree with the opinions of Ms. Lee, I find it hard not to admire her conviction and harder still not to laugh at how she upsets psuedo-conservatives like yourself, Texmaster. I hear your cry, "This is America, damnit! Dissent is not allowed! Why are you different? Why are you this way? If you don't get in line, we'll lock you away!" If you only knew just how this reveals you for the Nazi that you really are.... >>

Yeah right, she just does it to push buttons and prove she is the uber-liberal. She is nothing but the left-wing version of Bill O'Reilly. It's the same mind state that causes people to join the KKK.

CKDragon · Mar 19, 2002

<< I'm simply criticizing the way she voted and then standing up afterwards.."Look at me. Look at me. I stood up to the man" >>

If I received death threats for doing my job (which in her case happens to be representing her voters, which she did), you better believe I'm going to get some press out there explaining my position more thoroughly.

CK

Vic · Mar 19, 2002

<< Accusing someone of being a Nazi is a VERY serious charge. I'm sure growing up in MTV and VH1 land you probably don't know what the Nazis were all about so I'll forgive the accusation.

I care if someone dessents during wartime you bet. Especially if they don't have an alternative to the problem they are comaplaining about.

Quit while your behind, your ignorance on the subject and the accusation you made is laughable. >>

LOL! I'm very familiar with what a Nazi is (or more appropriately, was). As I'm very sure that you yourself aren't old enough to have lived through WWII, I pretty sure that you have no personal knowledge either.
But let's leave that alone and get to your argument, shall we?
The funny thing about professional flamers/ranters like yourself on internet message boards is that you think that just being intimidating is enough to win. The facts that your post had an actual content of something close to ZERO and that your insults were based on little to no fact whatsoever is meaningless to you. You simply fling insults in the dark, hoping that one will stick, and act intimidating, believing that if that person never posts in this thread again that you have somehow won. Your reason for thinking so if most likely based on the fact that most people DON'T respond back to your posts and you (thinking exactly like the noisy barking dog in someone's backyard, an analogy which, I think, is best for the way you post here) think that you have won when in fact all you have done is disgusted someone.
Ok, back to your meaningless insults:
<<I'm sure growing up in MTV and VH1 land you probably don't know what the Nazis were all about so I'll forgive the accusation.>> How my quoting a Dave Matthews song caused you to put all that together, I don't know, but (just for the record), I was in high school when MTV began airing back in '81.
<>
We are not at war. Constitutionally, this is a "time of public crisis." However, even during time of war, most intelligent people agree that peaceful dissent (learn to fscking spell, you moron) is required in order for the public debate to proceed smoothly and for the public cause. We are not slaves here in the US, much as you would like otherwise.
<<Quit while your behind, your ignorance on the subject and the accusation you made is laughable.>>
You are correct, I admit to being slightly ignorant about this particular subject. Maybe that's because there's nothing interesting in it. A Congressional Representative, from a state and district far away from mine, chose to be the sole dissenting vote on the issue of whether or not to give GW wartime-like powers. Yawn...
As for my accusation, it is dead fscking on. I know your type. You hate everyone who disagrees with you. You would change the world in your image, by force if you could. So yeah, you're a Nazi. Wake up and smell the gas chambers.

Corn · Mar 19, 2002

<< Why are you different? Why are you this way? If you don't get in line, we'll lock you away!" If you only knew just how this reveals you for the Nazi that you really are.... >>

While Tex occasionally gives the rest of us "conservatives" a bad rap by association, I think that calling him a "Nazi" is a little over the top. No one has said "If you don't get in line, we'll lock you away!" like you've said. Instead of understanding the reasons for the criticism againt Ms. Lee's grandstanding, you've only focused upon upon the fact that she's being criticized.

I enjoy listening to the pacifists preach "give peace a chance".

Unfortunately for them, we tried that after the bombing of the US barracks in Saudi, 2 American embassy bombings, and the attack upon the USS Cole. We gave peace a chance after those acts of war waged against our (and other) citizens. What kind of reward did we get for "giving peace a chance"? Over 3000 civilians dead........

Some people have a difficult time accepting the truth that some people don't want peace, that there really isn't any "honorable" intent within the violence, pain, death, and suffering they impose upon innocents--and that no amount of coddling to their "demands" will satisfy their thirst for destruction.

Sometimes you have to fight for what's right (or just more right that what you are fighting against). I understand that some people are afraid of the consequences of agression, today we call them sheep, 60 years ago, we called them "the French". 60 years ago someone came to their rescue, problem is that today we don't have the luxury of anyone other than ourselves to protect us.

Fausto · Mar 19, 2002

Damn, PSYWVic.....you gotta warn me before you let one of those loose. I'm gonna be cleaning coffee off my monitor for the next 20 min.

Fausto

What can I say but...Berkeley?

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