What caliber handgun do you guys recomend for home use?

[Hammer]

<< PS- Oh, one more thing... Can anyone say flachettes? >>



I don't think the H&K G11 is available for home use yet. I'm personally waiting for the H&K's PDW. Here's a quote from the H&K site:



<< While still in early development stage, the Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) is the newest innovation from HK. This lightweight (2.86 lbs. w/20 rounds) defense weapon is small, portable, and defeats all known standard issue military body armor meeting CRISAT specifications (1.6 mm titanium, 20 layers Kevlar). HK designed the PDW as an alternative to handguns, submachine guns, some carbines and rifles. The PDW round is a conventional brass-cased caliber 4.6 x 30mm rifle cartridge designed for optimum efficiency with low weight and felt recoil to increase hit probability. >>

 

[Tonec]

Before you buy a revolver/shotgun, I would recommend that you go to a range and try out the Glock series. Its a semiauto but 60% of national law enforcement uses them and has top notch reliability. Since you are concerned with stopping power/wall penetration, a good compromise is the Glock 22/23/27 in the .40S&W caliber. The #1 rated self defense ammo for this year was the Federal HydraShok 155g JHP. This round has relatively low recoil/flash and is a jacketed hollow point, which will cut down on the lead discharge at the range and buildup in certain barrels. This is the FBI standard issue which is important because you will need to justify the ammo used in court if you shoot someone.

Also, keep in mind that most of the members here are younger and have probably never fired a gun. There are quite a few knowledgeable responses in this thread but overall you would be better off asking a question like this at a dedicated gun forum. Whatever gun you choose, get professional training and plenty of range time with your gun/ammo.

edit-one thing that most people forget when buying a gun is that you will have to fire it indoors in a dark environment. Even with 31db ear muffs on, standing next to a hot loaded .45 hurts. Now imagine firing one with no hearing protection. Your body will compensate somewhat in emergencies but the flash will blind you and there is a definite risk of hearing loss after multiple rounds.

 

[glenn1]

<< The #1 rated self defense ammo for this year was the Federal HydraShok 155g JHP. This is the FBI standard issue which is important because you will need to justify the ammo used in court if you shoot someone. >>



One good way to do that is find out what weapon/ammunition combination the local police authorities are using, and choose the same. Fortunately for me, the Delaware State Police use my preferred choice, the Sig 229 (they use .357 Sig instead of .40 S&W, but that's a relatively minor point).

 

[Daniel]

Speaking of shotguns, has anyone thought of maybe a 20 gauge instead if you are really worried about the damage beyond the walls. From what I remember I thought even a .410 at close range has more stopping power than a 44 magnum? Personally I've shot a few 20s but mostly 12 gauges my whole life but I'm thinking across one room a 20 would be more than enough and have less chance of hurting someone else in the process?

As for the pistol ideas about shooting a leg or something, there is a reason why they teach people "center of mass", it is the easiest to hit, and you are more likely to hit there under extreme stress. If you think you can take a few courses and practice a bit and hit a guy running at you in a dimly lit room in the leg with a .45 you are bonkers.

 

[BooneRebel]

A couple of quick thoughts for those of you that have posted the questions:

I recommended hollow-points as opposed to FMJ not for their stopping power, but for the lesser chance of over-penetration. Yes, they can still get fouled by heavy clothing, at which point they're "reduced" to the impact of a regular round-nose bullet.

I still don't think that a .380 is going to offer enough take-down compared to the larger rounds, but given the stated goal here of choosing a caliber for use in an apartment, the Browning 9MM and Colt 1911 .45 are overkill, too much firepower and too complicated to operate. A .38 Special will give -almost- the same ballistics as a 9MM or .357 round, just not as potent. Plus, the recoil is quite a bit more manageable. Once you've increased your confidence and abilities through practice & lots of target shooting, you may want to consider stepping 'up' to a semi-auto. But not right away.

For someone with little experience with firearms (as is the case here), I'd lean towards one of the double-action 6 shot revolvers in either .38 Special or .357 Mag using .38 Special rounds. Something like a Ruger SP101, Colt Detective Special, or one of the many S&W versions. Once loaded, you just aim & pull the trigger - no safeties, slides to manipulate, etc. In the event of a bad round all you have to do is pull the trigger again.

If I only had one firearm to depend on I'd choose a shotgun, but there's way too much emphasis here on the idea that accuracy isn't important, or just "point in the general direction and shoot" mentality. At 20 feet, the spread on a 00 buckshot load is only going to be about 3-4 inches. Before you assume that you're going to clear the hallway with one shot, take a few targets out to the range and test yourself first.

edited for clarification

 

[DanFungus]

<< << I'm sorry but I find the phrase "handgun for home use" extremely funny. >>



LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing >>


same here!!!

 

[AndrewR]

[Cartman doing the "where's your regional champions certificate"] Was your cartridge specifically made to knock down a drugged up charging man? [/Cartman doing the "where's your regional champions certificate"] I'd volunteer to take as many as you could make while standing immediately after taking a 45 ACP to the sternum.

Seeing as how the FBI uses the cartridge as its standard, I think that's probably taken into consideration. Also, after I saw what this round can do to a 5 inch thick law book, I'm fairly impressed with its penetration and exit wound. Lastly, you can check out the penetration in the FBI study results here -- scroll down about halfway.

3) Hollow points are not that wonderful. At All. If your crook is wearing something substantial to protect him, say, a thick leather jacket with something sewn into it (I've heard about linoleum of all things) don't consider it unlikely that the bullet could fragment upon hitting the jacket and not penetrate at all.

You might want to see the chart results of that study on the HydraShok. As is mentioned in the lead-in the report, the HydraShok has also been improved since the version used by the FBI for its test.

Granted, I'm not saying that 9mm is superior to .45, but the notion that 9mm is weak in all forms is false.

 

[im2smrt4u]

<< hmm
isn't it illegal to kill someone for breaking into your house? >>



Well, if your really worried about that, buy yourself a shotgun and get some beanbag rounds or something!

On the other hand, you better not miss!

 

[littlezipp]

Wow, I did not think we had some many gun lovers here. Well anyway, I would stick to a good .38 special. They are a solid gun to shoot, and are very accurate. Semi-autos are fun but less accurate. Stick with a good brand too such as Smith & Wesson, or a cheaper Taurus. Just stay away from a .45 if you do not want if going through walls... It will. I think that your shotgun idea might need a little rethinking too. Though the pellets won't go far, I believe that weapon to be overkill!

 

[Novgrod]

I will once again reccomend a 12ga for home protection. There is nothing more lethal/accurate inside 10 yds. I'm sure no room in your apt is 30 feet long. Very few people can fire aimed rounds when paniced without extensive training no matter what all the dirty harry wannabes on this board tell you. A shotgun takes away that part of it. Just point it in the general direction, pull the trigger, pump it, repeat..

First off, I'm not sure how much testing of the 12 ga you've done at limited ranges. I can tell you with certainty that, with the right round, it's positively deadly within 30 yeards. That being said, it's not like the blast has a huge radius at ten feet or even ten yards. Try over 50% of the pellets within six inches with an improved or modified choke at ten feet, and that's being generous. Even if you have a skeet choke it won't be much better off. They're still effective up to about 30 yards, as you mentioned, but their efficiency falls off only partially because of the spread; much of it is the awful ballistics and relatively slow FPS of a 12 ga round.

Poiint being, it's not like a 12 ga is going to give you some insane radius of pellets in the ordinary house setting. Its main advantage is the ease in firing a shoulder-mounted gun, which IMHO isn't significant enough to outweigh the handgun. With some practice, you'll be just as able to put a handgun round within that shotgun radius. As for flechettes, well, do what you will but the idea--I don't like it.

Oh, and I've had a number of pumps jam repeatedly. Good quality pumps at that--an ithaca and a winchester come to mind.

 

[Mookow]

<< [Cartman doing the "where's your regional champions certificate"] Was your cartridge specifically made to knock down a drugged up charging man? [/Cartman doing the "where's your regional champions certificate"] I'd volunteer to take as many as you could make while standing immediately after taking a 45 ACP to the sternum.

Seeing as how the FBI uses the cartridge as its standard, I think that's probably taken into consideration. Also, after I saw what this round can do to a 5 inch thick law book, I'm fairly impressed with its penetration and exit wound. Lastly, you can check out the penetration in the FBI study results here -- scroll down about halfway.

3) Hollow points are not that wonderful. At All. If your crook is wearing something substantial to protect him, say, a thick leather jacket with something sewn into it (I've heard about linoleum of all things) don't consider it unlikely that the bullet could fragment upon hitting the jacket and not penetrate at all.

You might want to see the chart results of that study on the HydraShok. As is mentioned in the lead-in the report, the HydraShok has also been improved since the version used by the FBI for its test.

Granted, I'm not saying that 9mm is superior to .45, but the notion that 9mm is weak in all forms is false. >>



I didnt say all 9mm's are weak. I just said that a 45 is designed to knock someone down, whereas a 9mm is not.

 

[jjones]

The 12 guage Mossberg pump is an excellent suggestion for home defense; however, if I were only to purchase one gun and I didn't intend to hunt with it but wanted it for recreational use as well, I would go for the .357 S&W revolver. Great for home defense and recreational use at the range. If recreational use is not a factor then i would go for the 12 guage.

 

[jemcam]

<< First off, I'm not sure how much testing of the 12 ga you've done at limited ranges. I can tell you with certainty that, with the right round, it's positively deadly within 30 yeards. That being said, it's not like the blast has a huge radius at ten feet or even ten yards. Try over 50% of the pellets within six inches with an improved or modified choke at ten feet, and that's being generous. Even if you have a skeet choke it won't be much better off. They're still effective up to about 30 yards, as you mentioned, but their efficiency falls off only partially because of the spread; much of it is the awful ballistics and relatively slow FPS of a 12 ga round. >>



Corrections Officers are trained to shoot at the concrete floor about 10 or 15 feet in front of the offender. This makes the fragments spread out even more after the ricochet, allowing you less of a chance of missing and a greater number of casualties in one shot.

 

[GooberPHX420]

<< My revolver is a .38 special. It should be about what you need for home protection.

Just make sure you use hollow point ammo.

Jim >>



Wouldnt hollow point make like 6 inch hole in the dude he shoots?

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< With some practice, you'll be just as able to put a handgun round within that shotgun radius. As for flechettes, well, do what you will but the idea--I don't like it. >>


I never said anything about flechettes, so we'll leave that go. As far as the rest of it--Yes, with practice almost anyone would be able to shoot inside the pellet pattern at short range, at paper targets. But can you do it in a panic? The answer is probably no. That takes a tremendous amount of training, something the regular, I'm buying a handgun for protection gunowner doesn't get or have access to. The shotgun, IMO and experience, is a more suitable weapon for this individual, if he is truly concerned about protecting himself and his family inside his home. I can't find the article but I read that even law enforcement has like a 1/7 hit/miss ratio when they have to discharge their firearms (this did not include SWAT/HRT type teams). I have nothing against handguns, I love to shoot them. I have expert medals with the .45, 9mm, .38, M14 and M16. However if I was again having to keep a weapon loaded in the house for self protection ( I don't right now because I live on the base) it would be, as it has in the past, a shotgun loaded with 00.

 

[KokomoGST]

I heard that there was some ammo that used fluid & it's hydrostatic force at close range for maximum impact at short range with minor risk of injury at greater distance. Was supposed to fit into .357 and used by law-enforcement in close-quarters and more stopping power than a .44 Mag in close.

 

[Novgrod]

The shotgun, IMO and experience, is a more suitable weapon for this individual, if he is truly concerned about protecting himself and his family inside his home. I can't find the article but I read that even law enforcement has like a 1/7 hit/miss ratio when they have to discharge their firearms (this did not include SWAT/HRT type teams). I have nothing against handguns, I love to shoot them. I have expert medals with the .45, 9mm, .38, M14 and M16. However if I was again having to keep a weapon loaded in the house for self protection ( I don't right now because I live on the base) it would be, as it has in the past, a shotgun loaded with 00.

Perfectly valid take IMHO. I would prefer a handgun were I him, but I think either would be a valid choice.

One note, though: 01 is better than 00. You get much more lead and the FPS doesn't fall off much at all.

I can't find the book--it's by Peter Hathaway Capstick--in which he explains his test that shows that the amount of lead you're cost by the air between 00 pellets and 01 is really very detrimental. Heck, within 10 yards 8 shot will do a fine job though

I would be very curious to see the hit/miss ratio with a shotgun, though. I'm much better with it just because of skeet shooting/waterfowling, but I'd be interested to see how well people do with it generally.




As for hollow points blowing a six inch hole: I didn't know that hollow points were now explosive The idea is that they'll transfer all the kinetic energy of the round into destruction of flesh in the individual at whom it is aimed by mushrooming rapidly. The problem is that if you hit a bone, it's not unlikely that the bullet will lose all its good ballistic properties as it moves into a couple pieces. When I used to hunt deer, I'd insist on solids on the theory that a neat little hole in the pump room will do enough damage all the time. It didn't matter, of course, and something like a soft point would have been perfectly wonderful. Same, I think, goes for handgun rounds.

One man's opinion

 

[BooneRebel]

Well, how about it, Extraneouschimpanzees? Heard enough to make a decision? This has been fun...

 

[dwil]

With a 12 gague, you only really have to load a shell.
That sound will stop ANY intruder.

as far as my home.... .32 walther PPK / .22 plinker

 

[Savatage]

For your apartment situation, I'd go with a shotgun. I do like the mossburg line here. Then:

Pistols:

1.) Glock 9mm

2.) Smith&Wesson

 

[Cattlegod]

<<<ok, from now all, all AT OTers, when you have a legal question, please forward it to Cattlegod because he is obviously an expert on the law.

It depends on the situation Cattle God. Let me just say, its always nice to have a spare big knife or other weapon laying around that you can plant on the person you shoot. >>

ok, from now all, all AT Oters, when you have an english question, please forward it to PRICK because he is obviously an expert on english.

there was a question mark there prick, i stated it because i didn't know.

 

[BooneRebel]

<< when you have an english question >>



Shouldn't it be "English", capitalized because it's a proper noun?

 

[Mookow]

<< I can't find the article but I read that even law enforcement has like a 1/7 hit/miss ratio when they have to discharge their firearms (this did not include SWAT/HRT type teams). >>



In a match between your average gun enthusiast and your average police officer, my money would be on the enthusiast. Most police officers I know go to the range for quals only. Its sad, but true. When the officers do use their guns, they are not firing at still targets in good light with no real pressure (ie the quals). So, I would believe the hit miss ratio of 1:7 quite easily.

 

[burnedout]

4) Revolvers aren't the be-all end-all of handguns. Yes, they'll never fail. Neither will a Colt .45 or a Browning 9mm. EVER

I've seen plenty of .45s fail. Service models, Government models, Commanders, Gold Cups, aftermarkets and modified surplus. Once had a brand new Detonics and it jammed. My Browning Hi-Power hasn't failed me yet, and neither has my brother's. Maybe because we've only put about 1000 rounds each through them over the years and kept extraordinary care of them. However, I'd still strongly recommend a revolver any day for defense of the home versus an auto. Hell, my primary home defense weapon isn't even a pistol. It's a Winchester model 1300 12 gauge pump shotgun.

For someone with little experience with firearms (as is the case here), I'd lean towards one of the double-action 6 shot revolvers in either .38 Special or .357 Mag using .38 Special rounds. Something like a Ruger SP101, Colt Detective Special, or one of the many S&W versions. Once loaded, you just aim & pull the trigger - no safeties, slides to manipulate, etc. In the event of a bad round all you have to do is pull the trigger again.

If I only had one firearm to depend on I'd choose a shotgun, but there's way too much emphasis here on the idea that accuracy isn't important, or just "point in the general direction and shoot" mentality. At 20 feet, the spread on a 00 buckshot load is only going to be about 3-4 inches. Before you assume that you're going to clear the hallway with one shot, take a few targets out to the range and test yourself first.

Well put. My sentiments exactly.

 

[Theslowone]

But if you want a real impact go with a desert eagle .50 cal with black talons, that should leave a small mark.
But seriouly how bout a taurus police model 85.
Yeah get familiar with any gun you have, and take a course if need be.