So answer me, are you gonna man up or not? Either address the 16 refutations, address my question, or stop posting. Otherwise you're just trolling.
Well, the "man-up" question is something that has been stewing in my mind. I'm being 100% honest on that - how can somebody believe something so evil was perpetrated by not only our own government, but our own civilian civil workers, and be such a coward to do nothing about it?
Frankly - I think this tinfoil guys are just as bad as I mentioned earlier - holocaust naysayers, or a more modern pretext - hysteric accusers of daycare devil worshipers/molestors, or back in the day - witch burners. Glomming onto some anomoly, ignoring all other logic and evidence, and intent on doing harm.
It almost makes me wish the Illuminati would ship them off to be re-programmed by the Matrix!
From Text
Intercepts Not Routine
CLAIM: It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers. ...
PM dismisses this "claim," excerpted from OilEmpire.us with the following sweeping 'fact':
In the decade before 9/11 NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999.
This bold assertion flies in the face of an Associated Press report of scramble frequencies that quotes the same Maj. Douglas Martin that is one of PM's cited experts, Maj. Doublas Martin, [3]
From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said.
It is safe to assume that a significant fraction of scrambles lead to intercepts, so the fact that there were 67 scrambles in a 9-month period before 9/11/01 suggests that there are dozens of intercepts per year. To its assertion that there was only one intercept in a decade, the article adds, without evidence, that rules in effect ... prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts and the suggestion that there were no hotlines between ATCs and NORAD.
___________________________________________________________
This is all I needed to read to totally discount anything else PM has to say. Just part of the mass media stranglehold on real information as noted in my sig.
Regarding whether I'd stand up and do what I think is right: I'd gladly die for my country. But what would you have me do? Storm the centers of power with my pea shooter?
Intercepts Not Routine
CLAIM: It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers. ...
PM dismisses this "claim," excerpted from OilEmpire.us with the following sweeping 'fact':
In the decade before 9/11 NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999.
This bold assertion flies in the face of an Associated Press report of scramble frequencies that quotes the same Maj. Douglas Martin that is one of PM's cited experts, Maj. Doublas Martin, [3]
From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said.
It is safe to assume that a significant fraction of scrambles lead to intercepts, so the fact that there were 67 scrambles in a 9-month period before 9/11/01 suggests that there are dozens of intercepts per year. To its assertion that there was only one intercept in a decade, the article adds, without evidence, that rules in effect ... prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts and the suggestion that there were no hotlines between ATCs and NORAD.
___________________________________________________________
This is all I needed to read to totally discount anything else PM has to say. Just part of the mass media stranglehold on real information as noted in my sig.
Regarding whether I'd stand up and do what I think is right: I'd gladly die for my country. But what would you have me do? Storm the centers of power with my pea shooter?
9/11 always reminded me of "A Long Kiss Goodnight". To bad there wasn't a real Charlie Baltimore around to save our asses from corrupt politics.
Hey, you're creative enough to believe all this crap, surely you can come up with something equally creative. Go grab a few friends off the internets, build some bombs, whatever - make something happen. How do you think a good terrorist - sorry - patriot - is born?
Where there is a will, there is a way. Otherwise you're just like ever german citizen that stood idly by while Hitler rose to power...
But you better act before it's too late - cause I'm sure any man willing to kill 3,000 of his own citizens isn't gonna give up power willingly!
Don't post on here though - you never know who is watching :shocked:
My objective isn't to kill people. I don't like killing people. I hate people who kill innocent people.
Information is the key. You I consider beyond hope, but there are plenty of folks who can be swayed by information. Much of this information is on the internets.
Have a good day!
Information is the key. You I consider beyond hope, but there are plenty of folks who can be swayed by information. Much of this information is on the internets.
Have a good day!
Yes, a brilliant plan by the government. Bush wants an excuse to invade Iraq, so it makes perfect sense to stage an attack that requires us to invade Afghanistan first. Not only that, but he decides to reuse a declassified plan from the 60's that conspiracy theory folks already have a bug up their ass about. Wow, that is just one hell of a plan.
There is a lot more, way more, and it's been addressed by others already. The point is that the 9/11 conspiracy theories just don't make any sense. I realize you are apparently some sort of anti-government conspiracy person, but I assure you, I have no stake in proving the official version right. I don't especially like Bush, and if he ordered 9/11, I sure as hell would like to know about it. But the conspiracy theory simply doesn't make any sense. There are too many holes, too many conflicting ideas, too many things that simply don't stand up to any kind of analysis.
Yes, information is the key. As opposed to rambling psychotic writing from people with a vested interest in you reaching their conclusion.
I think they were blown up intintionaly also. There is no way those buildings could have fallen like they did.
I'm gonna call it folks. It was 11:14 EST when the first Hitler reference was used. The thread has now gone down from a level of decorum that deserves to be continued on.
Alchemize, don't you think it's better to argue on the facts rather than on the messenger. There is a saying "Don't shoot the messenger" for this such reason. The person is merely presenting "facts" and precedent to establish a plausible theory. Who's to say who is right -- couldn't the theory purposed by morkinva be just as plausible as the mainstream one?
Also, why do you switch from radical positions of first mocking him then to attacking him for being less of a man once his point is assumed true? It would help your argument if you were to argue on some facts rather than just purely emotions. Calling your other a coward and the like really kills what you have to say and gets you no where fast.
State your point and move on. Morkinva is presenting evidence that he believe in or just thinks that we should see. Rather than attacking him personally and encouraging him to treason you should stick to the facts. Citing Hitler or calling a man a coward for proposing an alternate viewpoint reflects bad upon you.
Ah yes, you are a civil engineer with many years of structural design experience? Because those people who are would mostly disagree with you.
I have to say one thing I saw this video on the full dvd and I dunno if should believe or not some of stuff he mention made sense to me and some of them sound stupid, but about the cop thing I have to agree with him 100% why you ask? I live in new york city and I was getting off the 2 train during the evening with my wife and daughter and there was this lady standing by the stair and her husband and her baby, and this cop comes down and start telling this lady "did i tell you to move from here like min ago" and lady respond" I know you told move from here but Im waiting for my husand I was just about to move before came down here with an attitude" and cop said" well I told you move the fck away from the entrance and this would be last time I tell you this" and lady respond " who the fck do you think you are to be cursing at me?" "look lady I do whatever the fck want ok" I was stun and pissed when this damn pig said that to this lady since than I lost complete respect NYPD. most people around dont care what goes on and most people do well I notice alot change in new york city especially in cops... I mean bad way.
I know this off topic about the first post but the video is part of the full dvd...
I know this off topic about the first post but the video is part of the full dvd...
So some cop was a dick (according to your story, you didn't see what happened before you got there) and now you hate the NYPD? That doesn't make much sense to me...
Ah, you would be correct on the OP. I was simply pointing out that the thread degenerated into Nazi comparisons pretty early on.
Well you right about one thing I cought the dispute while going down the stair, and I could have missed beginning of it but there were other people watch him being almighty cop. but does not give a cop right to be rude to person and say "I do whatever I want" so the means they have badge that's make them walking god and we should bow down to them?
no Im not saying all cop are the same but Im seeing this kind of stuff happening to offen... I wish I had my camcorder so I would have record it so people won't think making this out of my butt.
i'm watching this video and i'm starting to get mad at the futility of it :|:|:|
if there was a conspiracy and planned demolition, we will never know
if there was a conspiracy and planned demolition, we will never know
That's why he said he thinks. He never said he had proof or anything. And please show me some documentation to what you say. From what I have heard so far, most experts agree that the buildings wouldn't have fallen from the airplane's impact and subsequent fire.
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
i'm watching this video and i'm starting to get mad at the futility of it :|:|:|
if there was a conspiracy and planned demolition, we will never know
This is pure idiocy.
The WTC buildings were built differently than all of the examples they show on this film.
Take out the 4 inside columns and down they go like pancakes. (house of cards)
I don't know enough about the design of Bldg 7 but since it was made in the same time frame was most likely designed the same way.
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