What Are The Consequences Of The EC-Popular Vote Mismatch Longterm?

[Muse]

Lots of wining on the internet.

I prefer whiskey... pass me that bottle.

 

[buckshot24]

Losers get an excuse to make them feel better.

 

[TheVrolok]

Ranked choice voting by popular vote plox
Thanks.

 

[OverVolt]

Guess you can just consider it the land vote. Your food comes from somewhere you know. Agriculture has declined in head count and increased in automation, mostly to meet the demands of cities.

Kind of ironic.

One of the USA's biggest strengths is actually food production. Alot of people don't realize and take that for granted.

 

[K1052]

Guess you can just consider it the land vote. Your food comes from somewhere you know. Agriculture has declined in head count and increased in automation, mostly to meet the demands of cities.

Kind of ironic.

One of the USA's biggest strengths is actually food production. Alot of people don't realize and take that for granted.

Cities didn't demand that farmers cut their labor costs buy introducing machines. They, like everyone else who adopted mechanization, wanted to cut man hours and increase profit.

 

[Blackjack200]

Cities didn't demand that farmers cut their labor costs buy introducing machines. They, like everyone else who adopted mechanization, wanted to cut man hours and increase profit.

Yeah, we take farmers for granted to the tune of $20 billion in subsidies per year. Bunch of entitled crybabies.

 

[Yakk]

Without the EC it would seem politically pointless for many states to be part of the union as there would be no way for them to have any input.

 

[Brainonska511]

Guess you can just consider it the land vote. Your food comes from somewhere you know. Agriculture has declined in head count and increased in automation, mostly to meet the demands of cities.

Kind of ironic.

One of the USA's biggest strengths is actually food production. Alot of people don't realize and take that for granted.

Why does "land" get a vote for presidency? What happened to one person, one vote? No state uses an electoral college for choosing governors, and they generally have both rural and urban areas. If popular vote is good enough for state governors, why is it not good enough for the presidency?

Without the EC it would seem politically pointless for many states to be part of the union as there would be no way for them to have any input.

I guess the Senate doesn't count.

 

[cbrunny]

Without the EC it would seem politically pointless for many states to be part of the union as there would be no way for them to have any input.

Congress.

BOOM! Lawyered.

 

[theeedude]

Electoral college and the Great Compromise in general has a lot of wisdom to it. I wouldn't rush to revoke it just because I didn't like the outcome it produced.
In some countries, Russia being a prime example, rural and less populated subjects are largely abandoned while politicians focus on urban areas with the most votes (during democratic times) and risk of revolt (during authoritarian times). So they will shower large urban centers with perks while bleeding the rest of the country dry. The people respond by moving to big cities and depopulating the regions, so you get a situation with extremely expensive large cities where people can afford to have kids but have no space, and rural and provincial areas where people have space but can't afford kids. That is not a healthy situation for a country in a demographic and other senses.
Also, Electoral College is not the Democrat's problem. Small states like Kansas are some of the biggest victims of Republican policies, always ranking bottom of the pack in pretty much all metrics. And yet, the Democrats can't seem to be able to sell lemonade in that hell. The answer is not to make these small states irrelevant, it's to make the Democratic party relevant in those states.

 

[NostaSeronx]

I say we go for a three part system(*).
-> Nationwide popular vote = #1
-> Statewide popular vote weighted against the electoral vote capacity. = #2
-> Wildcard free agents that might or might not vote with the Statewide Popular Vote = #3

To win you need two. (*)Then, for an ultra trade off the senate can trash that, and make the house of representatives vote.

 

[Bird222]

Without the EC it would seem politically pointless for many states to be part of the union as there would be no way for them to have any input.

Uh they have senators and reps.

 

[Bird222]

Problem with comparing the EC to popular vote is popular vote isn't truly representative either. No republican is going to campaign heavily in states they can't win like Hawaii, California, New York. Those states represent a huge amount of votes to the democrat by default. It's reasonable to think more might have been swayed to Trump if he spent the money in those places negating the entire conversation.

At its core, how is this any different than the present system where most states are ignored and only 'battleground states' are focused on?

 

[Jhhnn]

Electoral college and the Great Compromise in general has a lot of wisdom to it. I wouldn't rush to revoke it just because I didn't like the outcome it produced.
In some countries, Russia being a prime example, rural and less populated subjects are largely abandoned while politicians focus on urban areas with the most votes (during democratic times) and risk of revolt (during authoritarian times). So they will shower large urban centers with perks while bleeding the rest of the country dry. The people respond by moving to big cities and depopulating the regions, so you get a situation with extremely expensive large cities where people can afford to have kids but have no space, and rural and provincial areas where people have space but can't afford kids. That is not a healthy situation for a country in a demographic and other senses.
Also, Electoral College is not the Democrat's problem. Small states like Kansas are some of the biggest victims of Republican policies, always ranking bottom of the pack in pretty much all metrics. And yet, the Democrats can't seem to be able to sell lemonade in that hell. The answer is not to make these small states irrelevant, it's to make the Democratic party relevant in those states.

Meh. As I've pointed out, Capitalism itself creates the ongoing situation wrt small town America. We have to subsidize that part of America one way or another to make it prosper. Attitudes being what they are, we have to make it look like it's not subsidies & therein lies the difficulty.

 

[agent00f]

Guess you can just consider it the land vote. Your food comes from somewhere you know. Agriculture has declined in head count and increased in automation, mostly to meet the demands of cities.

Kind of ironic.

One of the USA's biggest strengths is actually food production. Alot of people don't realize and take that for granted.

The biggest industries in some of these states are military related, aka white welfare courtesy of their senate representation & such. Add to that disproportionate medicare/medicaid payouts, and the way government forces infrastructure/utility monopolies to build out to bumfucksville, and it means if the blue area on the map could secede they'd have an budget surplus and their red counterparts would be a third world wasteland soon enough.

These parasites then have the gall to considered themselves not just equals but betters because they managed to rig an election, not unlike the mentality commonly exhibited on this forum.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

There's a legal way to change the Constitution, get started. Here's a hint, it's not by whining, drooling and crying. Put on your big boy and girl and whatever pants and get to it.

 

[agent00f]

There's a legal way to change the Constitution, get started. Here's a hint, it's not by whining, drooling and crying. Put on your big boy and girl and whatever pants and get to it.

You're right, unfortunately liberals tend to be too good to do what it takes, and parasites evolve to exploit this.

 

[OverVolt]

The biggest industries in some of these states are military related, aka white welfare courtesy of their senate representation & such. Add to that disproportionate medicare/medicaid payouts, and the way government forces infrastructure/utility monopolies to build out to bumfucksville, and it means if the blue area on the map could secede they'd have an budget surplus and their red counterparts would be a third world wasteland soon enough.

These parasites then have the gall to considered themselves not just equals but betters because they managed to rig an election, not unlike the mentality commonly exhibited on this forum.

They'd have a budget surplus until they see their food import tab without federal subsidies or their cut of military spending.

The difference between blue and red states will always be that if you give the red states a cut they produce something of physical value and when you give the blue states a cut they live a high standard of living. But California on its own would just be the next Greece which was a great place where you could retire at 50 until reality kicked them in the teeth. If not recruiting for the military in the rural areas where would you recruit? A California suburb with $800k houses? Okay.

Also the cultural and entertainment center of the world is ALWAYS also in the economic center of power in the world and California on its own would not have enough cultural influence to keep hollywood going.

 

[agent00f]

They'd have a budget surplus until they see their food import tab without federal subsidies or their cut of military spending.

The difference between blue and red states will always be that if you give the red states a cut they produce something of physical value and when you give the blue states a cut they live a high standard of living. But California on its own would just be the next Greece which was a great place where you could retire at 50 until reality kicked them in the teeth. If not recruiting for the military in the rural areas where would you recruit? A California suburb with $800k houses? Okay.

Also the cultural and entertainment center of the world is ALWAYS also in the economic center of power in the world and California on its own would not have enough cultural influence to keep hollywood going.

Entirely comical that the richest place on earth won't be able afford food, which is already substantially imported anyway. The state can declare in-n-outs to be free and not make a dent in the new surplus. Just for laughs the blue areas should cut imports from inland; have fun selling those crops to mexico.

Regardless I'm glad you'll support this proposal and hope the two sides can work together to make it happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

There's a legal way to change the Constitution, get started. Here's a hint, it's not by whining, drooling and crying. Put on your big boy and girl and whatever pants and get to it.

Trump voters have been whining for decades. I suspect they'll have more to whine about in 4 years. I doubt that screwing over the rest of us will provide the emotional satisfaction they seek.

 

[hal2kilo]

Yeah, we take farmers for granted to the tune of $20 billion in subsidies per year. Bunch of entitled crybabies.

They have a monster of a lobby.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Most of you have no clue why the EC was started anyways -- https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-electoral-college-works-why-it-works-well

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Most of you have no clue why the EC was started anyways -- https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-electoral-college-works-why-it-works-well

Of course most Democrats know how the EC works, it's why they want to change it to a popular vote. It's easier to manipulate a popular vote.

 

[Jhhnn]

Of course most Democrats know how the EC works, it's why they want to change it to a popular vote. It's easier to manipulate a popular vote.

Bullshit. The fact that Trump won with a minority of votes proves that it's actually easier to manipulate the EC.

 

[mrjminer]

Bullshit. The fact that Trump won with a minority of votes proves that it's actually easier to manipulate the EC.

And the EC was a well-kept secret from Hillary until Trump exploited the wrongfully exploited this loophole in the election process?

Also, you are proven wrong using basic logic, per usual. I'd point out the obvious stupidity, but it's obvious. I have faith even you can figure out that it's more difficult to manipulate fifty things than one thing.

Oops, the cats out of the bag!