What a crock of @#%^$

[Gooberlx2]

If he took her car without permission, she should have reported it stolen. By doing that, she'd be cleared of all responsibility, and her car would have been returned to her after it was searched.

Do you report your car stolen if your girlfriend takes it, even though you have no suspicion of illicit activites? Boy would she be pissed at you when she gets back from the station.

How do you know she didn't know? If you're a cop, and you walk up to a car, how do you know that the little old lady isn't going to pull a gun on you? My point is that you don't know. She could have known about the drugs all along, and not done anything about it. When their property was seized, the feds had no way of knowing she wasn't involved. I would have assume that she was involved, anybody would. In any matter, she took it to court, and won her property back, correct? You know what she should have done next? Sue her boyfriend for the court fees and anything else. You see? If you think about a situation before complaining about it, you don't sound as stupid.

The fact is the burden of proof shouldn't rest on her shoulders. It should be DA's job to prove that she did know, which, admittedly, would be hard to do. How hard do you think it is for someone to completely hide something like drugs? Dude, hides his stash in some box somewhere, claims he's going to the gym, but goes and buys/sells drugs instead. Or better yet, he does it when she's in the shower so he can take her car without asking. She comes out, sees he and the car is gone, thinks maybe he went for cigarettes. Why should she suspect anything?

But, if parents haven't instilled a small enough bit of values into the kid to keep them from buying or selling drugs while they live at home, then they deserve to be held monetarily or criminally responsible

This may be a bad comparison but....If we often don't penalize the parents of kids who commit murder, why should we penalize parents of kids who commit obviously lesser crimes, especially when it's so easy to hide those activites? I don't think you'd sing the same tune if your house was siezed because junior was selling dope without your knowing.

 

[Gaard]

JuMpR629 - << This lady, by NOT protecting her property, is RESPONSIBLE for her boyfriend's actions.>>

Damn, dude. You don't think that's stretching it a little? If this guy took her keys out of her purse and drove off to buy drugs somewhere (which sounds like that's exactly what happened), she's responsible for him?

 

[Moonbeam]

LedZeppelin Quote:

LOL, once again proving my theory that you do not have a life, other than the ATOT Forums where you pretend to be a know it all on every subject imaginable. You insulted me first, thereby shattering that little angle of your battle. Who are you to say I am wrong? It's all a matter of opinion, there is no right or wrong answers here. Stupid fool, maybe one day you'll wake up and find a friend or two that doesn't involve a monitor or keyboard. Enough arguing with you, can't bring myself down to your level anymore, no matter how hard I try. Be gone.
--------------------------

What are you trying to do Zep, kill him by making him laugh to death?

JuMpR629, you certainly are single minded in your devotion to penalizing people. Goober suggested you wouldn't be singing the same tune if something like that happened to you. You'd probably wind up in the psycho ward babbling to yourself about how this can't be happening to me. I play by the rules. Like I said, too many Americans don't deserve the freedoms they have.

Michael, thanks for another thoughtful post. I think that your quandary as to the pluses and minuses of natural law are profound and important. I would remind you, though, that there were a number that were enumerated and a statement was made that that list was not inclusive. We have a constitution for the very reason as not to have constantly to reinvent the wheel. When you take into account some of the blithering idiocy, sorry to say, of some of the posters here, and imagine what such powers as forfeiture could do in their hands, it seems only too clear that something is radically wrong with these laws. Why not put the children of criminals to work as slaves to repay wrong doing. Come on, you can't tell me those kids didn't know their Dad was a crook. JuMp ought to be the first to serve. I know his folks are guilty of something.

 

[johnjohn320]

Maybe we should just create an official "Marijuana legalization" thread. They start every week, and the same arguments are always presented on both sides.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Maybe we should just create an official "Marijuana legalization" thread. They start every week, and the same arguments are always presented on both sides.

Hell, somebody just start an MJ Legalization forums!

 

[johnjohn320]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Maybe we should just create an official "Marijuana legalization" thread. They start every week, and the same arguments are always presented on both sides.

Hell, somebody just start an MJ Legalization forums!

Actually, those are kinda everywhere.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Maybe we should just create an official "Marijuana legalization" thread. They start every week, and the same arguments are always presented on both sides.

Hell, somebody just start an MJ Legalization forums!

Actually, those are kinda everywhere.

Hence the irony

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: luvly
"Granted, its tolerated here..."

Yeah, Aphex, maybe you should mention the "here" you speak of, as not everyone is privileged to know what "here" is.

Care to announce that it's the Netherlands? Or am I missing something?

Get a room.

dfi

 

[brxndxn]

n the above case, the buyers already had the intent to break the law, and the enviornment. If the police simply provide the oppertunity to, then it is NOT entrapment.

NO. You are wrong. If Joe Blow walks down the street and sees pot for sale and decides to buy it, there is absolutely no justification to say that he planned on buying that pot... Unless you call it planning the instant before he does it. We are land of the banned and land of the celebrated impulse buy.

Then murder would only ever be in the first degree.

 

[Renob]

It's illegal, they bought it, they got arrested. See anything wrong with this? I sure don't.

What a bunch of crap! I dont use or buy pot, but I dont think they should be able to take your car for such a small amount.

 

Originally posted by: brxndxn

n the above case, the buyers already had the intent to break the law, and the enviornment. If the police simply provide the oppertunity to, then it is NOT entrapment.

NO. You are wrong. If Joe Blow walks down the street and sees pot for sale and decides to buy it, there is absolutely no justification to say that he planned on buying that pot... Unless you call it planning the instant before he does it. We are land of the banned and land of the celebrated impulse buy.

Then murder would only ever be in the first degree.

I am wrong eh? So what you are saying is that a law enforcement major, who has asked his professor, who has a PHD, who has worked as a cop, security, arson investigation, and overseas is wrong? Gimmie a break dude. Stop watching Law and Order and NYPD Blue for your legal advice.

EDIT: Here we go.
Entrapment: A defense that excuses a defendant from criminal liability when law enforcement agents use traps, decoys, and deception to induce criminal action. It is generally legitimate for law enforcement officers to set traps for criminals without excessive inducement and solicitation to commit and involve a defendant in a crime.

 

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Then murder would only ever be in the first degree.

Murder in the first? Well, this should be fun. Tell me if the following sitution is first or second degree murder. Remember, first is planned murder, second is impulse.

2 men in bar get into a fight, rough each other up, 1 man runs away and gets his gun from his car, comes back in and shoots and kills the other becauese he is mad he lost the fight.. First or second degree?

 

[straubs]

Uh, haven't any of you heard about how COPS admitted the show is staged? Just like 99.9% of all TV shows are...

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: vi_edit

It's illegal, they bought it, they got arrested. See anything wrong with this? I sure don't.

Speeding is illegal, but I don't have to buy my car back from the state for doing 10 over.

Speeding isn't a felony... did you know that?

Possessing the little bit of weed they got busted with was not a felony either, at least not where I live. Now if it was cocaine or some other 'hard' drug, then yes it would be a felony too, but I do not think taking someones personal possessions will do anything except make more money for the specific agency and hopefully use that as a deterent for other drug dealers, users, etc..... Doesn't work though because if you look at the overall big picture, they have been confiscating everything from homes to planes to boats to vehicles. And are still doing it today, years after they started doing that.



BTW, to all law abiding US Citizens who look down on others who break laws:

Did you ever change lanes without using a signal? YES? Then you broke the law.

Did you ever switch lanes real quick to avoid missing a turn, and cut someone off in the process? YES? Then you broke 2 laws. (Yup, aggresive driving is now a traffic violation here now with hefty fines etc..)

Everyone has done at least one really stupid thing in their lifetime, and if you look real hard I bet you will find that a law was broken doing that really stupid thing.

In the end, If they wasn't doing a sting nor being recorded for COPS, for that petty amount, they more then likely would have made the person dump it out then smear it into the ground with their foot. Not saying all cops would do that, but alot would for such a little amount.


Not saying it's ok to break laws, because it isn't

If you do choose to break a law, then you must also be ready to face the law itself and the people who back up the law, if you get caught.

<Steps off the soapbox>

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: JuMpR629
Parents should be held responsible if their kid is a fvckup. That's beside the point. If you let illegal activities go on in your house, you should have to pay (if it's a serious crime, you should have to pay with your house). The U.S. isn't a sit-back-and-have-everything-given-to-me country. You need to TAKE CARE of your property so that it remains safe. THEN, AND ONLY THEN, will the U.S. gov't offer you LEGAL protection of your property.

That's ridiculous. No one can exercise complete control over another person, especially not a parent. Are you saying that you never did anything your parents didn't know about, and anything they wouldn't approve of? Say, you didn't touch alcohol until you were 21? Because that's illegal, and if, say, you had brought a six-pack into your house, then would it have been ok for the police to seize your house and throw your entire family out on the street?
Seizing the property of criminals is not ridiculous. However, the extent to which it is being used and the
presumption of guilt rather than innocence is.

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: luvly
"You could try looking at his profile."

You could try butting out, as "here" could mean anywhere without a frame of reference.

quite frankly i think you could try chilling out instead of coming into every thread looking for a reason to bitch at someone.

 

[BoberFett]

I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

It would serve them right to end up in jail and penniless for expressing their opinion about the law on an internet message board? Did you just wake up or something...you're not thinking straight?

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

Because it's obvious that you didn't bother to read any of what I had said, you're opinion isn't wanted.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

It would serve them right to end up in jail and penniless for expressing their opinion about the law on an internet message board? Did you just wake up or something...you're not thinking straight?

They're perfectly free to voice their opinion, as am I. More and more activities are becoming illegal in this country. When the War on Obesity starts and they seize the homes and cars of those found eating a hamburger, don't coming running to me for sympathy

 

[FettsBabe]

Around here (Davidson County) if the cops find drugs in your vehicle they do have the right to seize your vehicle. Now, of course, there are always exceptions (son driving mom's car, mom's a good citizen with no priors, and son gets caught with a joint). No her vehicle won't be taken.

Anyway, I don't use illegal drugs. I also feel that they should remain illegal. If you are using illegal drugs I would like to know why you feel that you must use them. Shouldn't Americans try to obide by the law of their nation? We don't need any more junkies in the nation.

I opt for whatever punishment is mandated by law and exceptions can be made to that (via judges discretion).

 

[FettsBabe]

There should be punishment for crimes that are committed. Thats the problem with the school system now. Teachers have no control. When we take punishment away from the legal system then we are going to be one problematic nation.

If you can't do the time...don't do the crime.
If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
If you can't run with the big dogs...stay on the porch.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

It would serve them right to end up in jail and penniless for expressing their opinion about the law on an internet message board? Did you just wake up or something...you're not thinking straight?

They're perfectly free to voice their opinion, as am I. More and more activities are becoming illegal in this country. When the War on Obesity starts and they seize the homes and cars of those found eating a hamburger, don't coming running to me for sympathy

Except their opinions weren't personal in nature. How about this...Because of your opinion, I hope your mother contracts breast cancer and dies a slow, painful death...it's a little different from just attacking the idea, isn't it?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

It would serve them right to end up in jail and penniless for expressing their opinion about the law on an internet message board? Did you just wake up or something...you're not thinking straight?

They're perfectly free to voice their opinion, as am I. More and more activities are becoming illegal in this country. When the War on Obesity starts and they seize the homes and cars of those found eating a hamburger, don't coming running to me for sympathy

Except their opinions weren't personal in nature. How about this...Because of your opinion, I hope your mother contracts breast cancer and dies a slow, painful death...it's a little different from just attacking the idea, isn't it?

If my opinion were "People that get cancer must have done something to deserve it" then I'd be surprised if someone didn't wish it on me.

Fact is, the opinions here defending this kind of fraudulent seizure probably only think they way they do because it hasn't happened to them. Opinions change very quickly when you're the subject of a injustice.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I can only hope that Jump and MacBaine and some of the others advocating absolute rule of law by an infallible government end up in jail and penniless for some minor crime. It would serve you right.

It would serve them right to end up in jail and penniless for expressing their opinion about the law on an internet message board? Did you just wake up or something...you're not thinking straight?

They're perfectly free to voice their opinion, as am I. More and more activities are becoming illegal in this country. When the War on Obesity starts and they seize the homes and cars of those found eating a hamburger, don't coming running to me for sympathy

Except their opinions weren't personal in nature. How about this...Because of your opinion, I hope your mother contracts breast cancer and dies a slow, painful death...it's a little different from just attacking the idea, isn't it?

If my opinion were "People that get cancer must have done something to deserve it" then I'd be surprised if someone didn't wish it on me.

Fact is, the opinions here defending this kind of fraudulent seizure probably only think they way they do because it hasn't happened to them. Opinions change very quickly when you're the subject of a injustice.

Ok, that I can agree with. I still think it's a little silly to hope for bad things to happen to people who don't share your opinion...kind of immature.