Westboro idiots have their tires slashed

[Scotteq]

Just because some of us won't shed a tear that it happened doesn't mean that we condone illegal activity.

I don't condone bikers beating the shit out of you but if you walk into a biker bar, stand on a barstool, and yell that anyone who wears leather is a i love you....... the story of your asskicking would get half a shrug from me. The people who broke the law should be prosecuted but its one of those things that falls into the "it ain't right but I understand" categories.

This is the reason why scumbags like Westboro and PETA pick on people who are too reasonable to fight back. It's a "Political Statement" to throw paint on 90 pound women coming out of a Fur store because she was wearing 'Animal Skins'. Yet *none* of them have the balls to go to Daytona Bike Week and throw paint on people wearing leather. Why? Because they know they'd get their asses kicked. Scratch that: They'd be taking their meals through straws. And they know it.

Hence we have Westboro picking on the families of dead servicemen, rather than going to a Military base. This is the same cowardice that gets us paint filled baloons thrown at defensesless women.


With Regards to the overall issue: I fully believe there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. If you want to protest the Government for somehow supporting <...whatever you hate this week...>, then by all means: Protest the Government all you want. But using dead service(wo)men and their Parents/Grandparents as the platform to spew hatred?? You deserve the ass beating that you are clearly too cowardly to face.

 

[piasabird]

Westboro Church should be called a Terrorist Group.

 

[Moonbeam]

I really don't understand this need to physically punish those who engage in hateful acts. What's your intent? to TEACH them something? To CHANGE them? To make them "see the light?" Do you really think you can make them stop?

The world is filled with highly irrational people whose behavior is infuriating. I see dozens of them every day on ATPN. When PJABBER or Spidey or Nick prove yet again what morons they are, should I slash THEIR tires to send them a message? And, yes, I find their smug vapidity just as infuriating as the actions of the members of the Wesboro church.

Ultimately, the only sane approach to morons is to take comfort in the knowledge that they have no choice but live out their pathetic, misguided lives limited by their deficient intellects. That's punishment enough.

Yes but when you see what a hell that is the next wish is to save them.

How sad that folk have to suffer from their own self hate when they are actually OK. But denial has a price that must be paid.

 

[Linflas]

Westboro Church should be called a Terrorist Group.

Why? So we can render the term "terrorist" to be as meaningless as the term "racist"?

 

[Atreus21]

Wow, just wow.

So let me get this straight. You, Nebor, and Nick1985 all believe in this:

1. WBC is doing something that is 100% legal, although disgusting. Read the 100% legal part again, to make sure you understand what it means.

2. Despite WBC being law abiding citizens, you wish to commit (or help commit, or let others get away with committing) crimes, including murder?

Are you serious? You guys are totally sick and perverted. Just because you don't like them, it's magically OK to commit murder?

Do you also think it's OK for anti-abortion people to murder abortion doctors? It's the exact same thing.

Grow up and realize it's not about what you like, it's about what is legal.

Uh, I mentioned absolutely nothing about murder.

What I said was that there is a legal principle regarding your failure to mitigate your injury. If you go around asking for trouble and trouble finds you, the law will not protect you to the extent that it would had you not been seeking trouble.

These people were provoking bereaved folks in the most calculatedly vicious way possible. It's a miracle and a strong show of restraint that they've only had their tires slashed.

 

[nick1985]

uh, i mentioned absolutely nothing about murder.

What i said was that there is a legal principle regarding your failure to mitigate your injury. If you go around asking for trouble and trouble finds you, the law will not protect you to the extent that it would had you not been seeking trouble.

These people were provoking bereaved folks in the most calculatedly vicious way possible. It's a miracle and a strong show of restraint that they've only had their tires slashed.

qft

 

[Moonbeam]

Uh, I mentioned absolutely nothing about murder.

What I said was that there is a legal principle regarding your failure to mitigate your injury. If you go around asking for trouble and trouble finds you, the law will not protect you to the extent that it would had you not been seeking trouble.

These people were provoking bereaved folks in the most calculatedly vicious way possible. It's a miracle and a strong show of restraint that they've only had their tires slashed.

It may be to you. To me it is only an expression of what it is to be a real American, to understand that only via tolerance of others are we protected from the bigotry of others toward ourselves, that by agreeing to follow a law that violates our own sense of decency at times are we protected from the insane who would impugn indecency in us for just breathing. You can't be safe from the insanity of others if you do not make them safe from your own. We die when we are made a judge or arrogate that right to ourselves.

You should never forget how dangerous you are as a true believer. He who lives by absolutes dies by the absolutes of others.

This is a difference in perspective between a liberal and a conservative mind. You know everything and I know nothing.

 

[nobodyknows]

It may be to you. To me it is only an expression of what it is to be a real American, to understand that only via tolerance of others are we protected from the bigotry of others toward ourselves, that by agreeing to follow a law that violates our own sense of decency at times are we protected from the insane who would impugn indecency in us for just breathing. You can't be safe from the insanity of others if you do not make them safe from your own. We die when we are made a judge or arrogate that right to ourselves.

You should never forget how dangerous you are as a true believer. He who lives by absolutes dies by the absolutes of others.

This is a difference in perspective between a liberal and a conservative mind. You know everything and I know nothing.

I really don't see what the big deal is about slashing their tires. Nobody was hurt and they got more free publicity for their "cause", so?? If it's publicity they want then let's give them some, where's the foul in that?

I wish I could say that the Westboro's church protests were no more hurtful to the servicemen's familes and friends then this event was to them, but I don't believe I can.

 

[piasabird]

What do you call it when you try to inflict pain and suffering by interfering at a funeral? Is nothing sacred? Do we stand for nothing?

Too Many Idiot Judges.

 

[Zebo]

What do you call it when you try to inflict pain and suffering by interfering at a funeral? Is nothing sacred? Do we stand for nothing?

Too Many Idiot Judges.

Mentally Ill. Maybe they need to be locked up. Certainly are unfit parents. Can you imagine being raised by these kooks?

 

[ericlp]

Yay!!! someone having the balls to stand up to the madness.


I would love for some faith based groups to come out here and picket Abortion clinics ... They would have more then flat tires.

 

[shira]

Yay!!! someone having the balls to stand up to the madness.


I would love for some faith based groups to come out here and picket Abortion clinics ... They would have more then flat tires.

That's an excellent point.

A young woman is in emotional turmoil, and finally decides she's going forward with an abortion. Yet what do those bat-crazy anti-abortion protesters do? They emotionally torture the young woman as she enters the clinic.

How many would-be slashers of Westboro church tires are capable of seeing abortion-clinic protesters as coming from the same mold as members of Westboro church?

 

[nick1985]

How many would-be slashers of Westboro church tires are capable of seeing abortion-clinic protesters as coming from the same mold as members of Westboro church?

Abortion clinic protesters are pretty bad. I'd say about a notch below the westboro church.

 

[Scotteq]

How many would-be slashers of Westboro church tires are capable of seeing abortion-clinic protesters as coming from the same mold as members of Westboro church?

I imagine the slashers *do* see the Westboro churchies in the same vein as the abortion clinic protestors... hence the slashed tires. :sneaky:

 

[shira]

I imagine the slashers *do* see the Westboro churchies in the same vein as the abortion clinic protestors... hence the slashed tires. :sneaky:

My impression is that Westboro-church tire-slashing is mostly a right-wing phenomenon, whereas abortion-clinic-protester tire-slashing is mostly a left-wing phenomenon. And never the twain shall meet.

 

[nick1985]

My impression is that Westboro-church tire-slashing is mostly a right-wing phenomenon, whereas abortion-clinic-protester tire-slashing is mostly a left-wing phenomenon. And never the twain shall meet.

I would look the other way at all of the above tires being slashed.

Westboro church for the obvious reasons, and the abortion protestors for tormenting young women that are already dealing with such immense stress and certainly dont need a bunch of bible thumping tards screaming hateful shit at them.

 

[Scotteq]

My impression is that Westboro-church tire-slashing is mostly a right-wing phenomenon, whereas abortion-clinic-protester tire-slashing is mostly a left-wing phenomenon. And never the twain shall meet.

And my impression is mindless bigoted hate mongers (of all political stripes) worked hard for it. And therefore they should receive the full measure. This applies equally to all causes - whether perceived to be Left or Right. I say this specifically since we have a large number of people here who try to Politicize everything, and thereby bring about this asinine condition where it's somehow OK to harass people for < Cause A >, but not acceptable to harass people for < Cause B >. Because A is "Left" and B is "Right", or whatever.


Also - Please note my earlier post opining there is a right way, and a wrong way to petition the Government for change.

Harassing people - whether it be family members attending a funeral, a woman walking out of a fur store, or a doctor going about his daily routine - is most assuredly NOT the 'right way' to go about your business. And if bigoted zealots decide to engage in a campaign of harassment, and someone gets pissed off enough to retailiate, then said Zealots are the ones to blame for the mess.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Uh, I mentioned absolutely nothing about murder.

What I said was that there is a legal principle regarding your failure to mitigate your injury. If you go around asking for trouble and trouble finds you, the law will not protect you to the extent that it would had you not been seeking trouble.

These people were provoking bereaved folks in the most calculatedly vicious way possible. It's a miracle and a strong show of restraint that they've only had their tires slashed.

It's still a crime, regardless of what you and others "think". That's that whole thing of "free speech" that people don't understand.

The courts have rules this is legal and protected. Full stop. You have a problem with it, or others do, protest against them in a LEGAL manner.

committing a crime isn't justified regardless, and you guys thinking it somehow makes it OK are wrong.

Are you OK with the killing of abortion doctors? Anti-abortionists are getting provoked by them performing abortions....do you allow them to kill the doctors? I mean, they were provoked, and y'all are saying the police shouldn't really spend time investigating? Are you OK with abortion doctors getting their tires slashed (of you want a less extreme example)?

The law is the law. It's not up to uninformed, emotional-fueled people like you and others that somehow decide if the law gets enforced, or how much it gets enforced.

 

[nick1985]

committing a crime isn't justified regardless, and you guys thinking it somehow makes it OK are wrong.

Are you braindead? Nobody is saying that we actively want murder to find them. We are saying that if they got beat up or killed we wouldn't really care because they deserve it.

You apparently would be heartbroken

 

[Scotteq]

Are you OK with the killing of abortion doctors? Anti-abortionists are getting provoked by them performing abortions....do you allow them to kill the doctors? I mean, they were provoked, and y'all are saying the police shouldn't really spend time investigating? Are you OK with abortion doctors getting their tires slashed (of you want a less extreme example)?

Tell you what: If and when the sad day comes and a blood crazed abortion doctor attacks my wife and attempts to rip the fetus out of her belly, then I absolutely reserve the right to put a bullet in said Doctor's head. And I guarantee you that I will NOT pause to discuss the procedure in a rational manner.

Until such time, I will also guarantee that legitimate doctors going about their legitimate business have nothing to fear.

 

[Atreus21]

It may be to you. To me it is only an expression of what it is to be a real American, to understand that only via tolerance of others are we protected from the bigotry of others toward ourselves, that by agreeing to follow a law that violates our own sense of decency at times are we protected from the insane who would impugn indecency in us for just breathing. You can't be safe from the insanity of others if you do not make them safe from your own. We die when we are made a judge or arrogate that right to ourselves.

You should never forget how dangerous you are as a true believer. He who lives by absolutes dies by the absolutes of others.

This is a difference in perspective between a liberal and a conservative mind. You know everything and I know nothing.

I don't absolutely believe I'm right. I just believe that truth is possible to find, and that forsaking the search for it denies us the ability to make any moral pronouncements at all. I don't claim to know everything. I just admit some basic convictions, such as that asking for trouble denies you the right to complain when it finds you.

Evan Sayet said that liberals are so abhorred by the idea of discrimination that they have opted to become utterly indiscriminate. They refuse to judge anything, even the most obvious horrors as what they are, for fear of being wrong. That is far more dangerous than staying true to your convictions.

 

[Atreus21]

It's still a crime, regardless of what you and others "think". That's that whole thing of "free speech" that people don't understand.

The courts have rules this is legal and protected. Full stop. You have a problem with it, or others do, protest against them in a LEGAL manner.

committing a crime isn't justified regardless, and you guys thinking it somehow makes it OK are wrong.

Are you OK with the killing of abortion doctors? Anti-abortionists are getting provoked by them performing abortions....do you allow them to kill the doctors? I mean, they were provoked, and y'all are saying the police shouldn't really spend time investigating? Are you OK with abortion doctors getting their tires slashed (of you want a less extreme example)?

The law is the law. It's not up to uninformed, emotional-fueled people like you and others that somehow decide if the law gets enforced, or how much it gets enforced.

I've never contended it wasn't a crime. I said (again) that people have a responsibility not to invite a crime to be done to them. Following from this, the fact that the perpetrators were deliberately provoked will MITIGATE THE CRIMINALITY OF THE REPRISAL.

It's a very simple point. The Westboro Church should be held partially legally responsible for a crime it was reasonably within its power to avoid.

There is zero, absolutely no comparison between this and the murder of abortion doctors. No Westboro Church members were killed (which is frankly amazing). Abortion doctors are not calculatedly provoking people, which the Westboro people are. They are not inviting any violence on themselves, just as practitioners of any other controversial procedure are not inviting it.

 

[BurnItDwn]

If the westboro idiots were murdered, would you protest funerals?

I think I understand Nick's position on this issue. I believe it's one of complete indifference. The "value" of the westboro idiots to humanity is less than 0, so if they were to disappear, then much of the country, as well as Nick, would be indifferent, as humanity would benefit. That is quite different from advocating or endorsing violence. At least that's my interpretation of it, and to be honest, that is how I feel as well. I believe very strongly in the 1st amendment, however, I believe they are completely evil as human beings, and that they should show at least a little bit of respect for other people, especially those who have died fighting for this country. One could argue that the westboro idiots engage in slander on a regular basis, they are very clearly malicious.

 

[nick1985]

If the westboro idiots were murdered, would you protest funerals?

I think I understand Nick's position on this issue. I believe it's one of complete indifference. The "value" of the westboro idiots to humanity is less than 0, so if they were to disappear, then much of the country, as well as Nick, would be indifferent, as humanity would benefit. That is quite different from advocating or endorsing violence. At least that's my interpretation of it, and to be honest, that is how I feel as well. I believe very strongly in the 1st amendment, however, I believe they are completely evil as human beings, and that they should show at least a little bit of respect for other people, especially those who have died fighting for this country. One could argue that the westboro idiots engage in slander on a regular basis, they are very clearly malicious.

Sums it up pretty well.