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We're Supposed to Trust These People?

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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
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Not only does (the absurdly named and serially-incompetent) Cressida Dick need to go, but really the entire upper management of the Metropolitan police need to be fired and replaced. I don't think they fully grasp how devastating the Wayne Couzens case is to the organization. It needs a complete purge/clear-out.

 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
3,863
2,179
96
The balance of power is a tricky one. We want and NEED police to have power to do the job effectively. But too many abuse that power and the 'thin blue line' crap is used to protect the abusers.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,054
8,732
136
There was an article recently about cops in Connecticut I think it was. They arrested this dude, who had just started recording on his phone and the cops didn't realize it. They took his phone not realizing this. The phone recorded them basically discussing how they had to charge him with something, aka set him up with false charges so they looked legit. Everything recorded. This happens more often than people realize, cops making shit up.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
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Bizarrely banal example. Hardly compares to all the rapist and murderer cops. I almost feel sorry for this guy (is that wrong of me?). Throwing away your career over £1 worth of biscuits? That's kind of rough.

Especially in the light of the Wayne Couzens revelations (multiple accusations of flashing, including driving around for hours naked from the waist down, going uninvestigated)

 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,296
9,916
136
Bizarrely banal example. Hardly compares to all the rapist and murderer cops. I almost feel sorry for this guy (is that wrong of me?). Throwing away your career over £1 worth of biscuits? That's kind of rough.

Especially in the light of the Wayne Couzens revelations (multiple accusations of flashing, including driving around for hours naked from the waist down, going uninvestigated)

To be exact, he threw away his career over 90p, which was the amount he saved by underpaying for the cookies.

In all seriousness, doesn't sacking him seem a bit extreme under the circumstances?
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
To be exact, he threw away his career over 90p, which was the amount he saved by underpaying for the cookies.

In all seriousness, doesn't sacking him seem a bit extreme under the circumstances?

Yeah, I think it does. If the cops were otherwise cleaner-than-clean, maybe one could claim they have to have zero-tolerance for any such dishonesty...but coming in the immediate aftermath of multiple cases of police officers committing very serious crimes (and having gotten away with it in some instances) it seems very harsh. Maybe he was just already unpopular at work for other reasons?
 

MichaelMay

Member
Jun 6, 2021
197
173
76
Bizarrely banal example. Hardly compares to all the rapist and murderer cops. I almost feel sorry for this guy (is that wrong of me?). Throwing away your career over £1 worth of biscuits? That's kind of rough.

Especially in the light of the Wayne Couzens revelations (multiple accusations of flashing, including driving around for hours naked from the waist down, going uninvestigated)

I agree with holding officers of the law to a very high standard and he was certainly in the wrong. I don't think your shown empathy for his situation is wrong though but yeah, it shows a form of pettiness that I do not want to see in officers of the law.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
Bizarrely banal example. Hardly compares to all the rapist and murderer cops. I almost feel sorry for this guy (is that wrong of me?). Throwing away your career over £1 worth of biscuits? That's kind of rough.

Especially in the light of the Wayne Couzens revelations (multiple accusations of flashing, including driving around for hours naked from the waist down, going uninvestigated)


The above seems even odder when contrasted with all these cases. Clearly biscuits are more important than women, as far as the police are concerned.

 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,226
5,436
136
Speaking of trust...

What If Everything You Know About Murder Rates and Policing Is Wrong? – Mother Jones

Homicides across the United States rose by an estimated 30 percent in 2020, the largest one-year increase on record, according to recently released data from the FBI. But don’t jump to conclusions about what that means.

As soon as the FBI shared this eye-popping statistic in late September, a flood of fear-inducing headlines made it seem like Americans are now living through a massive wave of violence. Police chiefs, mayors, and journalists quickly speculated about the possible causes for the uptick, often blaming (without evidence) protests to defund law enforcement and stop police brutality.

Don’t believe them. “It is very advantageous for police to weaponize this tragedy,” says Scott Hechinger, a former public defender in New York who now leads the advocacy group Zealous and has criticized the New York Times, NPR, and others for their coverage of the killings. Fearmongering about crime has for decades been a way for politicians and other officials to funnel more money to cops and prisons, win elections, and undermine Black people’s popular protests for civil rights. “But,” says Hechinger, “it ignores a lot of truths.”
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
Speaking of trust...

What If Everything You Know About Murder Rates and Policing Is Wrong? – Mother Jones

Homicides across the United States rose by an estimated 30 percent in 2020, the largest one-year increase on record, according to recently released data from the FBI. But don’t jump to conclusions about what that means.

As soon as the FBI shared this eye-popping statistic in late September, a flood of fear-inducing headlines made it seem like Americans are now living through a massive wave of violence. Police chiefs, mayors, and journalists quickly speculated about the possible causes for the uptick, often blaming (without evidence) protests to defund law enforcement and stop police brutality.

Don’t believe them. “It is very advantageous for police to weaponize this tragedy,” says Scott Hechinger, a former public defender in New York who now leads the advocacy group Zealous and has criticized the New York Times, NPR, and others for their coverage of the killings. Fearmongering about crime has for decades been a way for politicians and other officials to funnel more money to cops and prisons, win elections, and undermine Black people’s popular protests for civil rights. “But,” says Hechinger, “it ignores a lot of truths.”

Haven't read the linked article yet (will do so). But I heard that stat, and simply assumed it was due to the COVID crisis and lockdowns, meaning people were all cooped up at home with each other, leading to an increase in domestic killings. Conversely I also heard that, at least over here, deaths from road traffic collisions and outside-the-home accidents significantly declined, for the same reason.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
....Also, that '90s spike in homicide rates seems to be a strangely universal phenomenon. The same is true in Europe - when people get all worked up about stabbings here in London, you look at the actual figures and the overall murder rate in the city is much lower than it was during the '90s.

(I blame lead in petrol, myself)
 

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
3,863
2,179
96
So called 'soaring numbers' don't mean anything unless compared to the 60s and 70s. They may be higher than recent years, but no where near numbers of the past.

Detroit had a homicide rate of nearly 1,000 at one point ... 900 something as I recall. Recent years were more around 300:


(Chart only goes back to '85 which is after the numbers started down from the highs.)
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,054
8,732
136
Friend of mine I've known for 3 years. We are playstation buddies and have never met in real life. He's like 24 years old and more mature than your average 24 year old male and has a good heart. We have played games 100's of hours together and chat on the phone and via text. Anyways since I met him he has always wanted to be a cop. He paid for a school for the 6 month training, got a job as a security guard while he applied at police departments earlier this year. After a many many month process he got a job as a cop in a kind of poorer town - this is in Colorado about an hour or a bit less out of Denver.

He hates it. He said so many of them are just dicks and are more about power tripping than really helping the community. He is struggling with the morality of what his job will entail him to do, because he already sees that if you call something out, the brotherhood will ostracize you and make your life hell.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
Friend of mine I've known for 3 years. We are playstation buddies and have never met in real life. He's like 24 years old and more mature than your average 24 year old male and has a good heart. We have played games 100's of hours together and chat on the phone and via text. Anyways since I met him he has always wanted to be a cop. He paid for a school for the 6 month training, got a job as a security guard while he applied at police departments earlier this year. After a many many month process he got a job as a cop in a kind of poorer town - this is in Colorado about an hour or a bit less out of Denver.

He hates it. He said so many of them are just dicks and are more about power tripping than really helping the community. He is struggling with the morality of what his job will entail him to do, because he already sees that if you call something out, the brotherhood will ostracize you and make your life hell.

Seems to be a universal phenomenon. "Canteen culture" they call it here. It's why someone like Wayne Couzens could be jokingly nicknamed "the rapist" by his own colleagues and nothing be done till he went on to fully live up to that nickname in the worst way possible.
What does one do about it, given how to some extent it happens in every country that has police?
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,120
1,136
136
Why on earth would anyone trust the police? Or politicians for that matter.

Do everything in your power to avoid them and if they do make trouble for you, lawyer up.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,949
3,829
136
Why on earth would anyone trust the police? Or politicians for that matter.

Do everything in your power to avoid them and if they do make trouble for you, lawyer up.

Difficult to "lawyer up" if you run into one late at night on a deserted street.
 

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