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We're Supposed to Trust These People?

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Platinum Member
Nov 17, 2019
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Those are just the ones to hit the news today.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
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The local sheriff was sentenced to 15 years in the federal pen for corruption and extortion as part of running an illegal gambling operation while serving as sheriff. Aside from that he was a real asshole. He died of COVID in prison.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
22,928
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The problem with policing isn't necessarily with individual cops--the problem is with the system (i.e. leadership, unions, training and tactics, laws protecting police/general lack of accountability, institutionalized racism, civil forfeiture, militarized equipment, allocation of funding etc. etc.) that let's bad cops get away with shit and helps attract more bad cops.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
5,946
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The problem with policing isn't necessarily with individual cops--the problem is with the system (i.e. leadership, unions, training and tactics, laws protecting police/general lack of accountability, institutionalized racism, civil forfeiture, militarized equipment, allocation of funding etc. etc.) that let's bad cops get away with shit and helps attract more bad cops.
Agree... Locally a cop was fired for excessive force, but the 'system' has ruled that he will not be charged. Now they say he can get his job back, yet there is body cam footage of him beating a man with his hands handcuffed behind his back, in the back of a cop car. Rehire him? WTF!
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,568
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Just a little story...
When I lived in San Diego during the 80's a cop was murdering women. On duty working nights, the cop would pull women drivers over, guide them onto a road leading to an underpass (dark and secluded) then would rape and murder them. This was just north of the city, off the freeway in a fairly secluded area. It took investigators some time to figure out who was killing the women because naturally they never suspected this cop.

Another hard to solve crime I thought was peculiarly interesting was when an on duty police officer was found shot dead in his cruiser. The officer dead, discovered parked in a small secluded road-side park. I knew that park. People working in the area would drive and have lunch in that park. What was strange, there was no evidence of any confrontation or anything out of the normal. Just a police officer found shot dead sitting in his car. Eventually resolved, what happened was another police officer who also covered the same area had went on vacation. His cruiser parked at home while he and his wife were gone on vacation, their teen age kid and his buddies decided to take dads police cruiser out driving and have some fun. When they just happened to pulled off the road into this same road-side park they discovered yet another police cruiser stationed in the park on his rounds. The officer recognized the other cruiser as it pulled into the park and thought it was an officer that he knew with recognizing the cruiser markings. The teens in old dads cruiser knew they were busted big time, they panicked, and shot the officer on the spot. The officer probably never knew what hit him or that kids were in the other police cruiser. It took some time before investigators determined it was the kid of a cop in old dads police cruiser that committed the murder. Someones going to get grounded, for life.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Platinum Member
Nov 17, 2019
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Just a little story...
When I lived in San Diego during the 80's a cop was murdering women. On duty working nights, the cop would pull women drivers over, guide them onto a road leading to an underpass (dark and secluded) then would rape and murder them. This was just north of the city, off the freeway in a fairly secluded area. It took investigators some time to figure out who was killing the women because naturally they never suspected this cop.
Wasn't that CHP?

There was another one in Oklahoma not too many years back.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
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Every time I find myself thinking how awful our cops are, I then remember 'at least they aren't quite as bad as American cops'.

But we do have the most out-of-touch, dysfunctional and downright absurd royal family in the world...OK there's Saudi Arabia but they are more The Sopranos than soap opera.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
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How do two criminal cases against police suggest we can't "trust these people?"

Suppose I were to cite two criminal cases against black people, then conclude from that we can't trust "those people?"
"The blacks" don't have badges and the support of a large government body.

The main reason police attempt and get away with so much bullshit is they find ways to do it legally or to skirt the law. Or just plain dont get punished.

You may recall multiple counts of assault, battery, and grievous bodily harm in 1992 Los Angeles?
Remember what happened to those guys?
Not a god damn thing.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
13,126
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"The blacks" don't have badges and the support of a large government body.

The main reason police attempt and get away with so much bullshit is they find ways to do it legally or to skirt the law. Or just plain dont get punished.

You may recall multiple counts of assault, battery, and grievous bodily harm in 1992 Los Angeles?
Remember what happened to those guys?
Not a god damn thing.
It doesn't matter what the differences are between the two groups. What matters is this: you can't make a case against an entire group based on anecdotal evidence. I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
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It doesn't matter what the differences are between the two groups. What matters is this: you can't make a case against an entire group based on anecdotal evidence. I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.
Try not to be afraid. You're supposed to be a grown up. And stop assuming. It shows how ignorant and prejudiced you are.
I did not miss any points. I got them, and I stated a new point, which I suspect you may have missed in your quest to be "Right" here on a forum where deep down inside no one gives a shit about each others opinions.


Back to the discussion:


To show how old I am and how much I've seen in my life, I realized the case is now 30 years old. It feels weird, having seen a lot of things go on in America during my life and not recognizing how historical they were at the time. Interesting to see that many large metropolitan police departments have made great strides in understanding and preserving constitutional rights over the years. But since they started at such a horrible deficit, the progress seems slow and sometimes stalled.
The LAPD is a lot less racist than it used to be, and still has work yet to do. But some of the quiet, small, mostly white suburban communities made little to no progress in the last 30 years. Ferguson stands out as a prime example.

Also its interesting to me that the proliferation of body cams and mounted security cameras all over America doesnt seem to have done much by itself to reduce officer incidents. Mostly it seems retraining and change of culture policies have the biggest effects, followed by dismissal of men & women who refuse to change their style of policing.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
105,804
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How do two criminal cases against police suggest we can't "trust these people?"

Suppose I were to cite two criminal cases against black people, then conclude from that we can't trust "those people?"
One is describing a job--a profession. The other is people.

The assumption shoudl be that for the Police, with what we understand their jobs to be, we should be able to trust any random one of them. We actually can't. And it wouldn't matter if it was only 1% that are corrupt, murdering, insane assholes. 1% is enough to lose trust, due to the nature, mandate of the profession. The oath(s) that they are expected to take.

(...of course, it's laughable to think it's as low as 1%.)
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
27,863
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Every time I find myself thinking how awful our cops are, I then remember 'at least they aren't quite as bad as American cops'.
Our cops are really pretty good. And I say that as someone who was on the opposite side from them for a fair bit of my life. I can't think of another countries police I'd replace them with.
But we do have the most out-of-touch, dysfunctional and downright absurd royal family in the world...OK there's Saudi Arabia but they are more The Sopranos than soap opera.
I mean is it possible to have a down to earth Royal Family? They are going for it on the entertainment front at the moment, but it's a pisser that they actually matter.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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I still struggle with the concept of "royal families" in purebred democracies ... its a friggin puppet show running on public welfare times a million. Stop it already, its not right. Being birthed into a reality show no consent either is not fair on the subjects either.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
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Our cops are really pretty good. And I say that as someone who was on the opposite side from them for a fair bit of my life. I can't think of another countries police I'd replace them with.

I mean is it possible to have a down to earth Royal Family? They are going for it on the entertainment front at the moment, but it's a pisser that they actually matter.

I understand that some continental European countries - the few that still have them - have less soap-opera-like Royals. But, as I say, at least ours - unlike some others - are more Eastenders than The Sopranos (I don't believe they've had anyone murdered in several centuries now, implausible Epstein conspiracy-theories aside).

For cops, I think it's like "democracy" - they are the worst in the world, apart from all the others.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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I still struggle with the concept of "royal families" in purebred democracies ... its a friggin puppet show running on public welfare times a million. Stop it already, its not right. Being birthed into a reality show no consent either is not fair on the subjects either.
TBH I can't see ours lasting in the same form once Lizzy gets planted.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
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I'm beginning to think that it has been no accident that she's never abdicated for her son Charles. Is he the big wanker in all of this?
Liz is probably the only one of the whole bunch who doesn't have some sort of full-on personality-disorder.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Think of this as a matter of probability and statistics with "common sense". Here's an example.

During my work-life, I moonlighted as a college-professor in computer-sci and info-tech. A majority of my students came from Mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. I loved doing it, because those Asian kids seemed to have a dimension of respect for teachers that you don't quite find so often among inner-city American kids, or even rich kids from the Burbs.

But -- guess what? I would always have a couple cheaters in my class. This was no different than a comparison of local political clubs or "PACs" wherein you might find a Treasurer who was embezzling money. You'd expect the behavior to occur more within a GOP club, but it also can happen in a Dem club. That is, the GOP examples may be more numerous, but they aren't exclusive.

Are there dirty cops? Sure. Are there cops who turn out to be serial murderers? Sure. You'd just think they'd more likely be weeded out during training. There was an LA fireman named Ohr who was convicted for serial arson in the late 90s. And look at the last "President". He's a life-long criminal who just walked between the raindrops most of his life -- until now.

If you have a barrel with a lot of apples, you'll always find one that is rotten to the core, even if the rest are destined for apple pie.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,196
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These this happen when you marry a first cousin.
It's actually not that big a deal to do that on a one-off, occasional basis. The odds of bad effects are fairly low. It becomes a problem if it happens regularly for generation-after-generation (as apparently is the case with at least one South Asian community in the north of England, who have long practised cousin-marriage and now have a high-prevalence of some specific genetic disorders).

I think the issue with the Royals is not genetics but environment - the harm caused by the sheer wierdness of their childhoods and formative experiences. Prince Charles, even as a child, apparently had to make an appointment through her secretary if he wanted to meet his mother, for example. The English upper-classes are a bit weird with how they relate to their children at the best of times, and the Royals are the pinnacle of that weirdness.

What I find annoying is that Princess Di, by bringing in a bit of commoner 'normality' into that family*, caused her kids to turn out a little less weird and dysfunctional than usual, despite Charles's best efforts to the contrary. And that this, at one point, looked like it might help the Royals survive by dragging them into the 20th (if not the 21st) century. But it's looking as if collectively they might be unable to adapt to the modern world after all.

* I very nearly said "car crash of a family", but in the context that probably wasn't the best phrase. Maybe "dumpster fire of a family"?
 
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