We're Finally Making Progress In Iraq

[First]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Does that mean that you believe our efforts to install a stable government have been largely successful?

Even the biggest Bush supporters are not that ignorant...

Huh? Who said the Iraqi government currently in power is stable? I just said it isn't any worse, in terms of being able to be taken over militarily by terrorist organizations, than the Saddam-led Iraq regime. Simple stuff.

If you genuinely believe that the majority of civilian deaths were "unintended targets," then you are clueless - and quite possibly crazy!

Let me share something with you: AQI and the sectarian groups target civilians much more often than they target the US. I don't know the exact ratios at the moment, but it probably hovers around 200:1. By that i mean that there are at least 200 intentional attacks against civilians for every single attack against the US forces. (kidnappings, mass killings, suicide bombings, IED's, etc)

You are absolutely clueless.

Trust me, if we leave, that place may become the bloodiest massacre in the last few centuries..

Trust you? Sorry, but you're not very well informed. Hate to break it to you, but your argument basically boils down to "Come man, trust me, it's obvious a massacre will occur!".

 

[imported_Truenofan]

i dont get why people who havent been over here, who dont know whats going on, who think they understand it throug all these tainted sources that everyone seems to agree are wrong. WTF. if they're all wrong why are you BELIEVING THEM! if the president is wrong, dont believe what he says, if certain news sources are wrong, who is to say they're all saying the right thing at all, they're all reporting they're own point of views on events and never tell the whole story.

All the politicians are saying the same shit just to get elected, all they're saying is something that agree's with what you think, so they get your goddamn vote, thats all it is. I've talked to iraqi nationals, face to face, not watching them on a fkin tv standing next to a car that was destroyed. hell the one i was talking to was athiest and a painter, we talked for a good 30min easy, and then he went to continue painting a mural. he was telling me about how much better it is with us being there than before. nobody had running water, nobody had electricity, they bairly had work. giving a general guess of 50% of them like us, and 50% of them dont want us there or hate us.

Fact is, they arent getting these munitions from old warehouses from the saddam regime, they are getting them from somewhere, and where are they getting the money for these weapons, it isnt coming out of thin air. think about that for a fkin second first. you argue about politics, well politics dont belong in war, never have. War is not pretty, your going to have deaths, thats the name of the game. they should have NEVER allowed news reporters into iraq, EVER. you may look at that as a breech of the first amendment, but some things should never be reported. in WWII we lost at least 80,000 american soldiers in the Battle of the Buldge in just over month than we have lost in three years in this war. im not trying to justify the deaths, but you complain about how many deaths there have been, but they're going to happen, you cant prevent it, its impossible. even in desert storm, we lost soldiers, and that war only lasted 72hrs, but nobody complained about it. Hell we're still losing lives with the after effects of the depleted uranium rounds we used with our own guys. why are we ok with this?

yes, im currently in iraq, right now, i have only begun my tour, and yes i've heard mortars come in, but i've also heard the EOD guys detonating explosives, and if you could hear the explosions i hear, you would know that they are destroying alot of explosives. We've already had injuries in my unit as well, and alot of close calls with rpgs with some of our personell on bases on the outskirts.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

The UN security council was protecting Saddam, they were corrupted, there was no point in bothering to ask permission.

Not having a plan except "shock and awe"?

We have a winner, GWB's epic failure for all time.

Hehe, you're so daft that even when reality proves you wrong you go with the lies.

The UN security council was presented with bullshit and said that there is a certain amount of uncertainty and bogus information, the information Powell provided that he knew was false didn't convince anyone, so the inspectors were ordered to finish their job, we all know what happened next.

But if the inspections had been allowed to continue and found exactly what the invasion found, no chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons or even the means to get them the Admins reason to invade would have been obliterated.

Remember that they used complete and utter KNOWN lies both in the US, in Congress and in the news.

45 minute threat anyone? Nuclear cloud? Full of shit president and administration anyone?

Don't fucking pretend like they didn't do this exactly like they wanted it done and fooled a lot of very stupid Americans, actually, since the nutjob got reelected, i don't think there are that many Americans left with a functioning brain at all.

There are still people who support the war on Iraq on the basis of WMD's.. How anyone could support it on any other basis i don't know, they have to make up new shit every fucking week, but some still claim the WMD defense.

Explain to me how tens of millions got that brainwashed that fast.

The UN is a corrupt organization designed to give legitimacy to the illegitimate, and take guns and money from Americans.

Fuck 'em. Unilateralism is the way to go. We used to know that going our own way was the right thing to do....

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
they're all reporting they're own point of views on events and never tell the whole story.

That's true of you as much as the news. Nobody is omnipresent, except my homie J.C.

giving a general guess of 50% of them like us, and 50% of them dont want us there or hate us.

Again, you're not qualified to make a guess like that. The truth is probably more like: 50% don't want us there/hate us, and 50% will say whatever the guy with the automatic weapon wants to hear.

they are getting them from somewhere, and where are they getting the money for these weapons, it isnt coming out of thin air. think about that for a fkin second first.

They're getting it from Iran, Syria at least; probably other neighbors in the Middle East as well. Those countries want the US out of their neighborhood, and I don't blame them.

you argue about politics, well politics dont belong in war, never have.

Iraq was politically motivated from the beginning, so you're right about that. Since we have incompetent leadership, politically is the only way we'll end it too.

they should have NEVER allowed news reporters into iraq, EVER. you may look at that as a breech of the first amendment, but some things should never be reported.

So you can murder and maim Iraqis with even less oversight?

yes, im currently in iraq, right now, i have only begun my tour

Invading Iraq was a costly mistake, and our mission there has been one screw-up after another. Keep yourself alive long enough to figure it out.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

What is it you blame Bush for? ANything you can talk about, it is a free country after all.

I have issues with several of his decisions. However, since I'm in the army, I'll keep them to myself for a few more years. I've readily given up several freedoms to fight for yours.

You VOLUNTEERED to give up what freedoms your alluring to and your BEING PAID for it. It was your choice so if you can't take the heat......

Funny though how your afraid to list your supposed "issues" with Bush. You are an aynomonous person here, what are you afraid of? What freedoms are you fighting for again? <snicker>

Or are you posting from the war room. :laugh:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

Something I've always wondered and expressed...why blame Bush? Why not direct your rage to the fekkers that gave him the money and the authority to invade? I dont get it. He requested, they gave it to him. Blind hatred FTW!

Yeah, right. They authorized him to write the check if needed, the "decider" decided to write it.

What...is he supposed to ask permission a second time? WTF is wrong with you?

Ifg congress gave Bush their blessing to jump off a cliff and then he decides to do so, is that congresses fault too?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

The UN security council was protecting Saddam, they were corrupted, there was no point in bothering to ask permission.

Not having a plan except "shock and awe"?

We have a winner, GWB's epic failure for all time.

Hehe, you're so daft that even when reality proves you wrong you go with the lies.

The UN security council was presented with bullshit and said that there is a certain amount of uncertainty and bogus information, the information Powell provided that he knew was false didn't convince anyone, so the inspectors were ordered to finish their job, we all know what happened next.

But if the inspections had been allowed to continue and found exactly what the invasion found, no chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons or even the means to get them the Admins reason to invade would have been obliterated.

Remember that they used complete and utter KNOWN lies both in the US, in Congress and in the news.

45 minute threat anyone? Nuclear cloud? Full of shit president and administration anyone?

Don't fucking pretend like they didn't do this exactly like they wanted it done and fooled a lot of very stupid Americans, actually, since the nutjob got reelected, i don't think there are that many Americans left with a functioning brain at all.

There are still people who support the war on Iraq on the basis of WMD's.. How anyone could support it on any other basis i don't know, they have to make up new shit every fucking week, but some still claim the WMD defense.

Explain to me how tens of millions got that brainwashed that fast.

The UN is a corrupt organization designed to give legitimacy to the illegitimate, and take guns and money from Americans.

Fuck 'em. Unilateralism is the way to go. We used to know that going our own way was the right thing to do....

Yeah, I hate the global economy too.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

What is it you blame Bush for? ANything you can talk about, it is a free country after all.

I have issues with several of his decisions. However, since I'm in the army, I'll keep them to myself for a few more years. I've readily given up several freedoms to fight for yours.

You VOLUNTEERED to give up what freedoms your alluring to and your BEING PAID for it. It was your choice so if you can't take the heat......

Funny though how your afraid to list your supposed "issues" with Bush. You are an aynomonous person here, what are you afraid of? What freedoms are you fighting for again? <snicker>

Or are you posting from the war room. :laugh:

You obviously haven't been privy to the DoD's latest memos on blogging, photography, and posting to the internet.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

What is it you blame Bush for? ANything you can talk about, it is a free country after all.

I have issues with several of his decisions. However, since I'm in the army, I'll keep them to myself for a few more years. I've readily given up several freedoms to fight for yours.

You VOLUNTEERED to give up what freedoms your alluring to and your BEING PAID for it. It was your choice so if you can't take the heat......

Funny though how your afraid to list your supposed "issues" with Bush. You are an aynomonous person here, what are you afraid of? What freedoms are you fighting for again? <snicker>

Or are you posting from the war room. :laugh:

You obviously haven't been privy to the DoD's latest memos on blogging, photography, and posting to the internet.

If your posting aynomously then you should be able give your opinion. Nobody knows who you really are or if you are really in the army, but if are in the service full time and your posting from work then you obviously should be doing something else, or are you getting paid to give us your "opinion"?

 

[imported_Truenofan]

jpeyton, the thing is, they arent learning to use these weapons on they're own, its not that we want to be here any longer than we have to, we are trying to train them and leave. i'll go out on a limb here, and say that, it wasnt 50% will believe what the man with the automatic weapon decides, its that they live in fear, they threaten them with they're lives and the lives of they're families if they dont help them. the 50/50 came from the mounth of an iraqi man himself not some newspaper, not a reporter spouting horse-shit i wouldnt believe.(im inclined to believe em, not saying i fully trust the man more than a reporter giving views the same as his bosses.)

And you dont blame them for us being in the neighborhood? they blatantly hate us based on history according to they're own, that may not even be us. they hate you, for nothing, they just for being who you are. and if they had a chance to kill you, they would, hell, any of us. and to kill iraqi's overnight? hardly, we do not attack unless we see some sort of agression to us, look at the Rules of Engagement.

The reason we dont need reporters in iraq, is that they dont need to know whats going on honestly, they dont need to report the number of deaths, the only ones that need to know who's died, is the family of the soldier, and anyone they choose to let know, its like a fuckin counting game for them. who cares how many we've lost, like i said before, you expect to not have anyone die? its impossible.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
jpeyton, im glad you actually see the POV i have. to the statement about us killing iraqi's with less oversight, its not about that. that i dont want reporters here, its that reporting deaths to everyone in the nation, so that everybody and they're brother knows that youve lost a child/sibling in a war. the only people from my understanding, from my view that should know about the death.
Is the family that lost them, not the neighbor or anyone else, not your bag boy in the grocery store down the street. it should be up to the family to tell who they want of who died. i hate the fact that they tell the public how many have died to day, its like its a damn game or something, "lets keep track of how many we've lost".

SO they can lie about how many died, or how they died? Can you say "Tillman"?

Although Pentagon investigators determined quickly that he was killed by his own troops, five weeks passed before the circumstances of his death were made public. During that time, the Army claimed he was killed by enemy fire.

A week after Tillman died, a top general sent a memo to Gen. John Abizaid, then head of Central Command, warning that it was "highly possible" that Tillman was killed by friendly fire. The memo made clear that the information should be conveyed to the president. The White House said there is no indication that President Bush received the warning.

Bush's speech at the correspondents' dinner came two days later.

Fielding had resisted providing drafts of the speech personally reviewed by Bush. Waxman's committee relented after several days of behind-the-scenes negotiations, but it continues to insist that the White House turn over drafts not reviewed by the president.

"We note that the administration has previously provided drafts of the president's 2003 State of the Union Address making the case for war against Iraq perhaps the most significant speech of the Bush presidency to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence," Waxman and Davis wrote. "We see no reason why drafts of the president's remarks to a correspondents' dinner would merit greater secrecy than drafts of the State of the Union Address."

.
.
.

Congress Wants Answers on Tillman Death

or read this one:

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

.
.
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AP: New Details on Tillman's Death

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Or perhaps, *gasp*, remain "determined" to win at all costs... what a concept!

What a fool is closer to the truth. Your only goal is to prolong this war into the next Presidency so he inherits the mess and then you'll be blaming him for Bush's (and your own) stupidity.

I do blame Bush for the current mess, and I will just as appropriately place blame on those who are responsible for leaving prematurely - regardless of party affiliation!

You say you blame Bush, but for what? Intentionally leading us to invade a country on trumped up intelligence? Pissing off the UN and most of the world by "going it alone"? Not having enough troops to do it right? Not having a plan except "shock and awe"? Lying about how many trained Iraqi troops/police we had prior to the last election? Sorry but no, it seems to me your a little late to the party to have ANY credibility, especially since you swallowed up everything the NeoCons have told you hook, line, and sinker.

All you are doing is lining your ducks in a row so in the future when the INEVITABLE finally happens you can whine about it and say "I told you so" instead of admitting to the truth, and the truth is we don't have the troops to pull it off (can you say 'stop loss') or the desire to stay that long and spend that much money.

We need to set goals and put a timeline on those goals, a timeline with consequences (staged withdrawl) if the Iraqis don't step up to the plate and take over the bulk of their own defense.

What is it you blame Bush for? ANything you can talk about, it is a free country after all.

I have issues with several of his decisions. However, since I'm in the army, I'll keep them to myself for a few more years. I've readily given up several freedoms to fight for yours.

You VOLUNTEERED to give up what freedoms your alluring to and your BEING PAID for it. It was your choice so if you can't take the heat......

Funny though how your afraid to list your supposed "issues" with Bush. You are an aynomonous person here, what are you afraid of? What freedoms are you fighting for again? <snicker>

Or are you posting from the war room. :laugh:

You obviously haven't been privy to the DoD's latest memos on blogging, photography, and posting to the internet.

If your posting aynomously then you should be able give your opinion. Nobody knows who you really are or if you are really in the army, but if are in the service full time and your posting from work then you obviously should be doing something else, or are you getting paid to give us your "opinion"?

posting anonymously does not free you from the laws governing free speech in the DoD under UCMJ. That said, a few posters here do also know my real name.

Either way, you will not see me speak ill of my Commander in Chief beyond the statement I made earlier; and that is that I do have issues with several of his decisions during the last six years.

I can give my opinions on certain issues all day long, but you will not see me speak ill of my unit, the service, or any of my commanders - including GWB. It's against the law for me to do so.

period.