Wendy's to install self-ordering kiosks at 1000 locations

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HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
Capitalism & Capitalists don't give a damn about the citizenry other than milking them for profit, one way or the other. That's why we have democracy to counter the power of wealth. Progress being what it is, we'll need to exercise democracy even more strongly if we're to not be ground into dust to serve the ends of unfathomable greed at the top. We only get paid because they need us & they need fewer of us everyday across huge swaths of the economy. Our incomes are mere inefficiencies for their purposes.

Most individuals operate for their own self-interest. Why should the top capitalists give a damn about the citizenry when the average person only gives a damn about pleasure and self-propagation, and does nothing to make themselves valuable? A person that has no greater ambition than burger-flipper at Wendy's is a person that no role in our near future.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,726
10,028
136
and does nothing to make themselves valuable?
Those paths are blocked and mostly end in disaster.
It's not that outcomes can or should be made equal, it's that the worst outcome should lighten up.
And yes, even people that do everything right in the world still don't "make it". World's a big place... !@#$ happens.

Besides, this whole topic is predicated on the loss of value. You don't "fix" that, you cope with it.
Doubling down on mythical bootstraps is the same thing as "let them eat cake". It also ends the same way.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Most individuals operate for their own self-interest. Why should the top capitalists give a damn about the citizenry when the average person only gives a damn about pleasure and self-propagation, and does nothing to make themselves valuable? A person that has no greater ambition than burger-flipper at Wendy's is a person that no role in our near future.

Well, we could release them from the social contract and see if those walls on gated communities are high enough.
 
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R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,583
164
106
Notice how many positions are *above* fast food folks.

EDIT: Hmm, image won't show but it's in the article

automationjobsgraphic.jpg


"Tory Shoreman thought she was safe.

As far as career choices go, working in mortgage financing at one of the country's top banks seemed like a solid bet.
She figured there would be more job security than many other professions and plenty of opportunities to climb the corporate ladder in Toronto.

That was back in 2010.

Over the next seven years, she says she had a front-row seat to watch automation — most often intelligent software — take over nearly every aspect of mortgage processing.

Tory Shoreman worked at one of Canada's top banks and says she watched automation take out 40 per cent of her department.

"I witnessed about 40 per cent of my department get laid off and the reason they were given was automation," the 32-year-old told CBC News. "And these are people who had spent years getting trained to be experts in this field. A lot of it was pretty shocking to all of us."

Experts say the technological upheaval that's rocked industrial manufacturing for decades is set for rapid expansion into white-collar roles — in fact, it's already begun in some sectors. The concern is that if people aren't prepared to adapt — and quickly — they could be left without work."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/automation-jobs-canada-computers-white-collar-1.3982466
At this rate I predict the human race will declare war on bots, before the end of this century.
Whether this leaves us in a post apocalyptic "The Walking Dead" world or god forbid "The Matrix" remains to be seen.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Most individuals operate for their own self-interest. Why should the top capitalists give a damn about the citizenry when the average person only gives a damn about pleasure and self-propagation, and does nothing to make themselves valuable? A person that has no greater ambition than burger-flipper at Wendy's is a person that no role in our near future.


Because they are the leaders and ones who can lead, even with all their flaws the Carnegies, Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, etc. realized that they need to take care of the country that took care of them because they understood their wealth did not come from a vacuum, unlike most of the elite, both republicans and democrats alike today.

Remember just because most people are sheep doesn't mean the shepherds have the right to lead them to slaughter or over an economic exploitation cliff.

What you see at the bottom filtered down from the top using the psychological manipulation techniques of Edward Bernays in the name of Profit as explained here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=century+of+self&qpvt=century+of+self&FORM=VDRE
Sigmund Freud, the founder of psychoanalysis, changed our perception of the mind and its workings. The documentary explores the various ways that governments and corporations have utilized Freud's theories. Freud and his nephew Edward Bernays, who was the first to use psychological techniques in public relations, are discussed in part one. His daughter Anna Freud, a pioneer of child psychology, is mentioned in part two. Wilhelm Reich, an opponent of Freud's theories, is discussed in part three.

To many in politics and business, the triumph of the self is the ultimate expression of democracy, where power has finally moved to the people. Certainly, the people may feel they are in charge, but are they really? The Century of the Self tells the untold and sometimes controversial story of the growth of the mass-consumer society. How was the all-consuming self created, by whom, and in whose interests?

BBC publicity.[6]
Along these lines, The Century of the Self asks deeper questions about the roots and methods of consumerism and commodification and their implications. It also questions the modern way people see themselves, the attitudes to fashion, and superficiality.

The business and political worlds use psychological techniques to read, create and fulfill the desires of the public, and to make their products and speeches as pleasing as possible to consumers and voters. Curtis questions the intentions and origins of this relatively new approach to engaging the public.

Where once the political process was about engaging people's rational, conscious minds, as well as facilitating their needs as a group, Stuart Ewen, a historian of public relations, argues that politicians now appeal to primitive impulses that have little bearing on issues outside the narrow self-interests of a consumer society.

The words of Paul Mazur, a leading Wall Street banker working for Lehman Brothers in 1927, are cited: "We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."[7]

In part four the main subjects are Philip Gould, a political strategist, and Matthew Freud, a PR consultant and the great-grandson of Sigmund Freud. In the 1990s, they were instrumental to bringing the Democratic Party in the US and New Labour in the United Kingdom back into power through use of the focus group, originally invented by psychoanalysts employed by US corporations to allow consumers to express their feelings and needs, just as patients do in psychotherapy.

Curtis ends by saying that, "Although we feel we are free, in reality, we—like the politicians—have become the slaves of our own desires," and compares Britain and America to 'Democracity', an exhibit at the 1939 New York World's Fair created by Edward Bernays.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Most individuals operate for their own self-interest. Why should the top capitalists give a damn about the citizenry when the average person only gives a damn about pleasure and self-propagation, and does nothing to make themselves valuable? A person that has no greater ambition than burger-flipper at Wendy's is a person that no role in our near future.

I never said those at the tippy top "should" care. I said the rest of us have the right of economic self defense.

That's probably tough to see with your nose in the ass crack of the financial elite.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
Capitalism & Capitalists don't give a damn about the citizenry other than milking them for profit, one way or the other. That's why we have democracy to counter the power of wealth. Progress being what it is, we'll need to exercise democracy even more strongly if we're to not be ground into dust to serve the ends of unfathomable greed at the top. We only get paid because they need us & they need fewer of us everyday across huge swaths of the economy. Our incomes are mere inefficiencies for their purposes.

I really don't believe that is true. Government is the ultimate subsidy for those with wealth. Railroads were subsidized, the wealthy industrialists or retailers derive enormous economic rents from infrastructure, tech companies get their talent from education subsidy. The ultimate counter to wealth is likely anarchy. The quickest way to anarchy is through a populist revolution, hence my support for a flat wage =)
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,197
4,881
136
You guys can keep on crying about automation but it won't make any difference. Being personally responsible for yourself should motivate you to get an education and move away from that end of the employment spectrum so these changes won't affect you. I know the personal sacrifices that I had to make for my education so I have absolutely zero sympathy for those crying over the loss of these jobs who are not actively trying to change their circumstances.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
You guys can keep on crying about automation but it won't make any difference. Being personally responsible for yourself should motivate you to get an education and move away from that end of the employment spectrum so these changes won't affect you. I know the personal sacrifices that I had to make for my education so I have absolutely zero sympathy for those crying over the loss of these jobs who are not actively trying to change their circumstances.

It's not all about you, or all about me, for that matter. It's about preserving the opportunities & the prosperity of the 99% when there's not enough work to go around for us to hold to our traditional "work for a living" ways of doing that. We see that in the inner cities & in Trump country as well. That will only intensify.

Chasing diminishing opportunities harder won't create more winners.
 
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Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,197
4,881
136
It's about preserving the opportunities & the prosperity of the 99% when there's not enough work to go around for us to hold to our traditional "work for a living" ways of doing that.
Stop living in the past. This is the 21st century and those days are long behind us and they aren't coming back so you have to realize it and make an adjustment for the changing reality that is called life in this country.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Stop living in the past. This is the 21st century and those days are long behind us and they aren't coming back so you have to realize it and make an adjustment for the changing reality that is called life in this country.

FYGM, obviously. That's why we should accept whatever economic system the revered "Job Creators" impose on us because there will always be a few winners.

All those other people whose services are no longer required just need to fight harder for the scraps left over so that the wealthiest & greediest people in the solar system can have more.

So Christian of you.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
When are Trump supporters going to accept that we live in a global economy, and they aren't more deserving of a job than a Mexican or a Chinese who is willing to do it for far less?
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,197
4,881
136
When are Trump supporters going to accept that we live in a global economy, and they aren't more deserving of a job than a Mexican or a Chinese who is willing to do it for far less?
This globalism that both parties have pushed for decades has resulted in forced innovation and these job losses are just one of the symptoms of this line of thinking.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
This globalism that both parties have pushed for decades has resulted in forced innovation and these job losses are just one of the symptoms of this line of thinking.

But what's wrong with it? I mean we get more abundant and cheaper goods, and have to do less boring dangerous work for it. And companies are much more profitable, so there is more wealth overall that can be used to offset any negative effects.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
But what's wrong with it? I mean we get more abundant and cheaper goods, and have to do less boring dangerous work for it. And companies are much more profitable, so there is more wealth overall that can be used to offset any negative effects.

We'll have to seize some of that wealth with taxes & redistribution if we're not to have even less of it in the future. We'll have to create jobs that the financial elite won't because they see no profit in it.

I have yet to figure out how conservatives' values are so twisted that they rush to defend the right of the Rich to get richer & more powerful at the expense of everybody else.

Seems to have something to do with Freedumb.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Stop living in the past. This is the 21st century and those days are long behind us and they aren't coming back so you have to realize it and make an adjustment for the changing reality that is called life in this country.

So you believe that your industry could handle 30-40 million more people doing your job? Mine couldn't. Tens of millions of people getting higher education and skill sets will just make that level of education and skill set be worth minimum wage. Then we will find ways to automate your job. No matter what your job is a machine is soon going to make one person do what it took 10 to do before. That goes for everything from manual labor to intellectual creative jobs.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,197
4,881
136
So you believe that your industry could handle 30-40 million more people doing your job? Mine couldn't. Tens of millions of people getting higher education and skill sets will just make that level of education and skill set be worth minimum wage. Then we will find ways to automate your job. No matter what your job is a machine is soon going to make one person do what it took 10 to do before. That goes for everything from manual labor to intellectual creative jobs.
You can keep on believing that if you'd like and employers will keep on importing workers with degrees to fill those jobs.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
You can keep on believing that if you'd like and employers will keep on importing workers with degrees to fill those jobs.

Employers don't import workers to fill job because there are not enough people with the skill sets here in the US, they import workers to fill jobs because the most important qualification that they are looking for is 'lower then the going rate for that skillset'. Companies import workers because it is cheaper than hiring someone from the US at a competitive rate.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,900
4,925
136
The visa system is so abused. Seems to me that if there is a labor shortage then the wages in those industries should by skyrocketing. lol, capitalism.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
The visa system is so abused. Seems to me that if there is a labor shortage then the wages in those industries should by skyrocketing. lol, capitalism.

Visas allow for an increase in supply not bound by the country borders. Open borders and cheap relocation greatly increases labor supply and thus lowers the wage being offered.

Honestly just look at Trump as basically a union organizer. He is looking to decrease the supply of labor in order to protect the interests of a few (in this case, America as a whole) over the many.

With that in mind Jhhnn should adore Trump, he owes a lot to artificial wage manipulators aka unions.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
We'll have to seize some of that wealth with taxes & redistribution if we're not to have even less of it in the future. We'll have to create jobs that the financial elite won't because they see no profit in it.

I have yet to figure out how conservatives' values are so twisted that they rush to defend the right of the Rich to get richer & more powerful at the expense of everybody else.

Seems to have something to do with Freedumb.
LOL!
You're such a numbskull.

I know it's your pipe dream, but you are *never* going to steal your 'prosperity' from someone else you sanctamonious little shithead.

Other people no matter how successful or not-sucessful don't exist to be your economic slaves. If you have no value in the society (and it appears you don't have much, just from your general shit attitude barely beyond the status of 'criminal') then you will exist at the lower rung of it. That's just reality, and you won't steal your way out of it. Nor enslave anyone else to bail you out of it. Not now, not any any fantasy future.

It's so telling how twats like you always whine at conservatives on the one hand, but then in the next breath its really you whining that all the conservatives won't roll over and be your cradle to grave economic mommy and daddy, giving you your prosperity. Fuck off, manchild.

Here's a dose of reality for you: I hope your ilk trades places with the third world you pretend to care so much about. I hope you're the one living in a fucking box over a sewer, while someone who is now in the third world but who's a decent human being, inherts the opportunities your lame ass ilk pisses away. You DESERVE to trade places, you turd. MAY IT HAPPEN.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Trump Trash is the one thinking they are entitled to have jobs brought back to them from the third world.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
Please. The push for higher wages has little to do with it. Automation is a trend in every industry, has been for a long time. It's simply becoming more intense. It's almost like Moore's law.

The truth is that working for a living is becoming an obsolete economic model. There's not enough work to go around, not like there once was. It's what's happening in the inner cities & now in Trump country as well. Human beings are the inefficient part of Capitalism.

This has nothing to do with 'Trump Country'. It's been going on for two decades. Businesses are around to profit. As such, they do anything they can to increase profits. A person is not a person - they are a number that has a certain output (work) and a certain input (cost). Robots are the same - they have an output (work) and inputs (initial price, repairs, and upgrades).

When the total output / cost ratio for a robot become greater than that of a person, the person gets replaced. It simply makes financial sense.

When you raise (nearly double) the cost of a minimum wage employee, that makes all sorts of technology like kiosks financially viable. In the automotive industry, a large robot + service comes in at well under $60k a year now. That means that it's right in line with a human being's cost. And we don't have to pay the robot overtime. If you want to play social engineer and make people more expensive, you'll just speed up the movement toward robots. It's that simple. In addition, you've created a couple high-tech jobs that require education: robots are complicated machines that take expertise to repair. So you've removed a low-level entry job and create a partial high-tech job.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
LOL!
You're such a numbskull.

I know it's your pipe dream, but you are *never* going to steal your 'prosperity' from someone else you sanctamonious little shithead.

Other people no matter how successful or not-sucessful don't exist to be your economic slaves. If you have no value in the society (and it appears you don't have much, just from your general shit attitude barely beyond the status of 'criminal') then you will exist at the lower rung of it. That's just reality, and you won't steal your way out of it. Nor enslave anyone else to bail you out of it. Not now, not any any fantasy future.

It's so telling how twats like you always whine at conservatives on the one hand, but then in the next breath its really you whining that all the conservatives won't roll over and be your cradle to grave economic mommy and daddy, giving you your prosperity. Fuck off, manchild.

Here's a dose of reality for you: I hope your ilk trades places with the third world you pretend to care so much about. I hope you're the one living in a fucking box over a sewer, while someone who is now in the third world but who's a decent human being, inherts the opportunities your lame ass ilk pisses away. You DESERVE to trade places, you turd. MAY IT HAPPEN.

"Ownership" of property is a protection by the state (ie other people). It certainly doesn't exist in nature per any nature documentary.

Consider the intelligence of people who can't figure this out even when explained in the simplest possible terms.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
"Ownership" of property is a protection by the state (ie other people). It certainly doesn't exist in nature per any nature documentary.

Consider the intelligence of people who can't figure this out even when explained in the simplest possible terms.

Really? Go try to take a tiger's meal while he's eating it. I'm pretty sure you'll very quickly about ownership of property. The government has the power, so they make ownership real. It's the same thing.