Just curious... are you black? I just became a member yesterday, and it seems like everyone who responds can't put themselves in the shoes of others for one minute. No matter, but thanks for recognizing it.
I do think there are a lot of people who aren't even attempting to be empathetic. But some of that is they seriously do not have the experiences to even do that. And I think that is another major problem is people being able to say they simply cannot get it and accept that. People want to try to understand, but when they can't make sense of things it bothers them so then they start trying to rationalize things in their own way, and we're seeing that a lot of people have flawed rationalization on a lot of topics.
And to a certain extent they are starting to willfully be not empathetic, because they feel like they're being forced to when they don't feel there is anything wrong but feel they're getting attacked for just having a differing opinion. Plus when you tell people that they don't understand something, that does not go over well. Its actually been shown that humans, when objectively shown to be wrong, will often double down and become more adamant about not being wrong.
In the past few years I've intentionally gone out of my way to expose myself to other people's experiences and a lot of it, especially initially can just seem like some craziness that they're blowing out of proportion, but the more that I actually looked the more I saw validity (even if I didn't agree with their reaction to it). Even then, I often struggled to "get it", meaning I can see it and consciously register it if I look, but it simply cannot give me the feeling/reaction that the people it is targeted towards get (for fairly obvious reasons), and so I also can't understand why they might react in what to me is an over the top manner for something that seems objectively slight. But I'm not barraged with lots of minor things that disparage and discriminate against me that I think objectively does happen against others, so I don't get the cumulative effects of being exposed to stuff like that.
I'd liken racism/bigotry to concussions. For a long time it was denied that it was any actual problem, then there started to be serious blatant situations where it became impossible to ignore. So things kinda changed to admit and address that stuff. In the US, people will look at the Civil War and Civil Rights laws that put an end to segregation and different things like that and say "see we did something about it" and then of course some think we went too far (affirmative action for instance), but overall people would say we did address that stuff. But, as we're finding out, all of the little ones, that tend to go unnoticed and thus unaddressed, are absolutely a big problem (maybe even bigger than the big ones, specifically because they go unchecked and the damage they do accumulates and compounds). We're at the stage where we're still struggling to adequately register when actual damage has been done, let alone figure out how to really address it. So its contentious, because there's arguments over it having occurred at all, let alone how damaging it is and how much it needs to be addressed if at all.
There's a lot of similar stuff that is happening and isn't about race, but other factors. For instance, poor white people are having a lot of the same things happen to them that was being done to black people, and so a lot of people see that and go "that's proof it isn't about race". And things get complex, because that is both true but also not. Its not about race (not saying absolutely, but objectively it typically would not be) when its being done to the poor white people, and sometimes it wasn't about them being black but being poor when it happened to the black people, but there was a lot of it that was (sadly that should be is) specifically because of them being black. But they were all still discriminated against in similar ways and it both did and did not have to do with racism.
Needless to say, there's a lot more complexity here than really ever gets addressed. And that doesn't even factor in that there's other races (so its definitely not a just a black/white issue), other ethnic groups, orientations, identities, religions, and then take all of that and compound it with history and that's why people feel like they do. Literally there's no way that people could be empathetic to all as they aren't even aware of it in many instances. To try to is overbearing and there's no way to adequately appease everyone, and you can try to be accommodating but it will likely just end up excluding someone. You can not mean malice or have any negative intention but still hurt people because you make light of something that is serious to them. But there is also value in trying to be inclusive and understanding others points of view.
My guess as to why they made the lips big like that vs what they tend to do on claymation or other stop motion shows is to make them more visible due to the small size of the bees on the screen. So they stand out. I posted the the pic of jesica rabbit to show other characters use big red lips. there are others. i further posted the black and white candy can character from an old cartoon i watched. Nothing about her character, to me, ever stood out to indicate a race. she's just a monster in a cartoon.
for the dude that shot up the church, he had mental issues. a lot of mental issues from what i remember reading. I'm not saying racism is dead, i just don't see it around almost every corner or in most things.
That's part of the rub too. Now, for a lot of people, being racist
is being crazy, because they associate one with the other because usually these days the only blatantly racist people are typically also crazy. But it really isn't, although certainly a lot of over the top racism is paired with legitimate psychological issues, there's a lot of stuff, especially minor things (even subconscious ones) that is not. But people are trying to dismiss small discrimination because of it not being the blatant crazy level. To them, the smaller stuff is really no different to the bullshit that everyone has to put up with. Which isn't the case, and the reason why people that have to deal with that are angry is that they have to deal with both (the specific discrimination as well as the usual bullshit). And then they have people saying its their own faults, that making a fuss about small stuff makes it a bigger issue that negatively impacts more people. That's not entirely wrong, but it also is overly dismissive. You can both feel that it doesn't warrant your support but also not dismiss that it is an issue at all.
Its fine for you to not see the vestiges of racism that others do. You have likely had a very different life from them and so it won't carry the same weight. That doesn't make you racist for not getting offended, but that doesn't make people wrong for being bothered by it either.
Because it doesn't make sense. based on why some of you are saying it is offensive. I'm also just stating my thoughts on it and why i came to that conclusion. you're just saying i should be offended because of big red lips and how some raciest cartoons/characters have been drawn in the past. At least that's how i'm reading it.
Edit: and aside from how the lips look, is there ANYTHING else about it that offends you? if so, what and why?
No they're not. They're trying to explain to you why other people find it offensive. That does not mean you have to. But you acting like people are being wrong because "look at these other big red cartoon lips that people aren't decrying as racist" is why you're reading it wrong. There's nuance here that you're not getting. And that's even ok, and while I somewhat applaud you for trying to understand it, you also seem unwilling to accept why you don't understand it and that's really what makes all the difference.
Likewise, a point people have been trying to make for a while now is that, it doesn't even have to be intentional or mean-spirited. I've known people that are the nicest, most accommodating, and genuinely unbigoted people, that have used phrases that are blatantly racist because they didn't understand their origin or meaning. The look of horror on their faces (especially for instance if where they gained it was from a blatantly racist situation, like a beloved grandparent that used it as such, but as young kid they didn't understand) when explained just shows the intention matters, but that when the intention isn't clear. And that's part of why some stuff is contentious, as there's often little evidence of clear malice or is even being done deliberately for comedic shock value, and yes there absolutely are people that react as if it is all the same and I think that is wrong. Context and intent matters.
I don't see anything wrong with "Jews" is that not what they are called? Can replace that with any other thing like Christian or Catholic. Heck there is/was a hockey team called the saints, and it showed a cartoony angelic figure. I don't recall if it was just local or wider spread or if it even still exists, but it was not seen as derogatory at all.
I think "Chinaman" is considered a racist word though, or is it? If it just said Chinese it would probably be fine. Is referring to a place that serves Chinese food a "Chinese restaurant" considered racist?
Even though I take exception to a lot of the complaining about persecution by various religious people, I could see them taking exception to a company trying to commercialize something about them. The difference is, generally it doesn't seem to be done by a society that did horrendous things against them. But Saints and angelic figures are pretty broad and not really disparaging, nor does it grossly misrepresent them. So, sure that could be offensive, but its not anywhere near the same level.
Its less about the words (although intention matters, Jews and Chinamen are similar to Indian in that it isn't necessarily a derogatory word, but it can be used that way), and more about the ridiculous caricatures they're using for the logos. This should be exceedingly obvious. I'm not even trying to be a dick, you really do regularly completely miss major aspects of things and then formulate opinions on your weird skewed view of things. Sadly a lot of people seem to be similar and it makes people exceptionally easy to manipulate.
