Well, well, well. Look at what we have here.

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: RichardE
Ah this guy.

Yeah, he goes around looking for stories to claim, he has made some wild claims. Listening to him is like listening to Iran commenting on US atrocities. Notice how at the end he says quickly, very very quickly "it is investigating these claims". He says that on every video, and nothing ever comes of it. I've made this comment in other threads of videos posted by this guy and I will make it here. I've kept watch on his other supposed "atrocities" where nothing ever came of it, and I will do the same here. In 3-5 months I'll bump your thread and call you an idiot when nothing comes of it. 🙂

Go read the World Weekly news, its about the same news value as this guy.

Do you think before you type?

Isolated or not, what does Israel have to gain from an open investigation of this incident?

They may do nothing, or they may throw the soldiers in jail, but I agree with part of your statement; we aren't likely to hear about this again.

You will hear nothing of it because there is nothing to the allegations. A known biased reporter working for a known biased company that makes videos like this frequently that are never backed up by other sources, even people who are working within Palestine who are sympathetic to there cause to destroy Israel.

You will hear nothing back regardless of the legitimacy of the claims. For the most part, only Canada, the US, and Britain would actually make a point of telling you anything about what happened to soldiers who did something like this.

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

That's where it starts. From there you have an apartheid system in Palestine; you have a Jews that see Israeli Arabs as a fifth column; you also have laws and institutions that promote the offsprings of one group over another. Scary stuff for a democracy.

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

That's where it starts. From there you have an apartheid system in Palestine; you have a Jews that see Israeli Arabs as a fifth column; you also have laws and institutions that promote the offsprings of one group over another. Scary stuff for a democracy.

Ah, so you have changed your position of 'Israel being undemocratic" to Israel having bad laws and institutions and "scary stuff." Well, I certainly won't argue that there's a good bit of racism over there, but it looks like you've more or less given up on the Israel being undemocratic part, so that's that.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

That's where it starts. From there you have an apartheid system in Palestine; you have a Jews that see Israeli Arabs as a fifth column; you also have laws and institutions that promote the offsprings of one group over another. Scary stuff for a democracy.

Ah, so you have changed your position of 'Israel being undemocratic" to Israel having bad laws and institutions and "scary stuff." Well, I certainly won't argue that there's a good bit of racism over there, but it looks like you've more or less given up on the Israel being undemocratic part, so that's that.

Would've you have called the old South Africa a democracy? They had elected leaders, right? What would you have called it?

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

That's where it starts. From there you have an apartheid system in Palestine; you have a Jews that see Israeli Arabs as a fifth column; you also have laws and institutions that promote the offsprings of one group over another. Scary stuff for a democracy.

Ah, so you have changed your position of 'Israel being undemocratic" to Israel having bad laws and institutions and "scary stuff." Well, I certainly won't argue that there's a good bit of racism over there, but it looks like you've more or less given up on the Israel being undemocratic part, so that's that.

Would've you have called the old South Africa a democracy? They had elected leaders, right? What would you have called it?

Blacks couldn't vote under apartheid. Non-jews can vote in Israel. Thus, South Africa was not a democracy. Israel is a democracy.

Now, if you will excuse me, I've got more important things to do. Like argue with you in the other Israel thread. :laugh:

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech
Have you stopped beating your wife?

Yes, or no?😉

While that may be a loaded question, mine isn't. It's quite obvious that Israel has a policy that favors Jews. They call it aliyah. If I'm not Jewish, no aliyah for me. Nothing wrong with that if they were being honest with themselves and others.

And your point is.....? Many countries have immigration policies of one type or another that are set to limit the immigration of certain groups of people. This does not make them undemocratic.

Your question is not loaded in the beating-of-wife sense, but in asusming that if Israel permits unfair immigration of certain groups, it must therefore be somewhat undemocratic.

edit:
definition of democracy from dictionary.com:
"government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

That's where it starts. From there you have an apartheid system in Palestine; you have a Jews that see Israeli Arabs as a fifth column; you also have laws and institutions that promote the offsprings of one group over another. Scary stuff for a democracy.

Ah, so you have changed your position of 'Israel being undemocratic" to Israel having bad laws and institutions and "scary stuff." Well, I certainly won't argue that there's a good bit of racism over there, but it looks like you've more or less given up on the Israel being undemocratic part, so that's that.

Would've you have called the old South Africa a democracy? They had elected leaders, right? What would you have called it?

Blacks couldn't vote under apartheid. Non-jews can vote in Israel. Thus, South Africa was not a democracy. Israel is a democracy.

Now, if you will excuse me, I've got more important things to do. Like argue with you in the other Israel thread. :laugh:

Last time I checked, Palestinians in Palestine couldn't vote in Israel either. Now, do they have their own government? Yes. What are it's obligations to its citizens and is it not unlike other gov't around the globe? Nobody knows.

 

[Screech]

Last time I checked, Palestinians in Palestine couldn't vote in Israel either. Now, do they have their own government? Yes. What are it's obligations to its citizens and is it not unlike other gov't around the globe? Nobody knows.

And this is pertinant to Israel's status as a democracy how.....? (got rid of the rest of the quote tree because they are annoying when they get long)

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech

Last time I checked, Palestinians in Palestine couldn't vote in Israel either. Now, do they have their own government? Yes. What are it's obligations to its citizens and is it not unlike other gov't around the globe? Nobody knows.

And this is pertinant to Israel's status as a democracy how.....? (got rid of the rest of the quote tree because they are annoying when they get long)

THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE PALESTINIANS. Democracies do not occupy other democracies. At least, not indefinitely. They are also economically strangulating the Palestinians with their endless checkpoints and bantustans.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE PALESTINIANS. Democracies do not occupy other democracies. At least, not indefinitely. They are also economically strangulating the Palestinians with their endless checkpoints and bantustans.

And democracies(*) don't send suicide bombers into other democracies, right?

Anyway, there's no point debating this with you since you're getting so emotional about it while ignoring all my remarks regarding history.


(*) I use the term democracy very loosly when referring to the Palestinian Authority, since you use it as a term that bestows high moral

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE PALESTINIANS. Democracies do not occupy other democracies. At least, not indefinitely. They are also economically strangulating the Palestinians with their endless checkpoints and bantustans.

And democracies(*) don't send suicide bombers into other democracies, right?

Anyway, there's no point debating this with you since you're getting so emotional about it while ignoring all my remarks regarding history.


(*) I use the term democracy very loosly when referring to the Palestinian Authority, since you use it as a term that bestows high moral

Well then, we can agree that Israeli "democracy" and Palestinian "democracy" deserve each other. One is no better than the other.

 

[Screech]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Last time I checked, Palestinians in Palestine couldn't vote in Israel either. Now, do they have their own government? Yes. What are it's obligations to its citizens and is it not unlike other gov't around the globe? Nobody knows.

And this is pertinant to Israel's status as a democracy how.....? (got rid of the rest of the quote tree because they are annoying when they get long)

THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE PALESTINIANS. Democracies do not occupy other democracies. At least, not indefinitely. They are also economically strangulating the Palestinians with their endless checkpoints and bantustans.

Exactly. The Palestinians recently got the Gaza strip back, and the Palestinian Authority controls most of the west bank. Israel's giving-of-land is of course tempered by the fact that when the Palestinians get land, Israel gets rockets, but that's another debate. Palestinians vote for their government, Israelis (which includes non-Jews) vote for theirs.

Thus, I would hardly call the Palestinians voting for their own government in the West Bank and Gaza Strip occupation by Israel. That isn't to say that Israel hasn't done some fscked up things in the past, or even now (settlements), but Israel is still a democracy.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: screech

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: screech

Last time I checked, Palestinians in Palestine couldn't vote in Israel either. Now, do they have their own government? Yes. What are it's obligations to its citizens and is it not unlike other gov't around the globe? Nobody knows.

And this is pertinant to Israel's status as a democracy how.....? (got rid of the rest of the quote tree because they are annoying when they get long)

THEY ARE OCCUPYING THE PALESTINIANS. Democracies do not occupy other democracies. At least, not indefinitely. They are also economically strangulating the Palestinians with their endless checkpoints and bantustans.

Exactly. The Palestinians recently got the Gaza strip back, and the Palestinian Authority controls most of the west bank. Israel's giving-of-land is of course tempered by the fact that when the Palestinians get land, Israel gets rockets, but that's another debate. Palestinians vote for their government, Israelis (which includes non-Jews) vote for theirs.

Thus, I would hardly call the Palestinians voting for their own government in the West Bank and Gaza Strip occupation by Israel. That isn't to say that Israel hasn't done some fscked up things in the past, or even now (settlements), but Israel is still a democracy.

Of course the Pals control Gaza, but they are trapped there. Israel reserves the right to come there and kill until she is satisfied. As for the WB, the Pals are highly restricted in their movement from town to town. The roads have an infinite amount of checkpoint and it is up to the soldier on duty's discretion whether or not to make somebody's life miserable. OTOH, the Israelis are allowed to move freely in the WB. Hypocrisy? I think so. Racism? Indeed. The hallmark of a glorious democratic system? Yeah right.

So you can talk about the hollow promiese of Palestinian self-governance, but the truth is they are severly limited and strangled by Israel.

 

[imported_dna]

Congratulations Narmer, you're ignoring history to make my reply somehow fit your argument.

Here is a pointer for you, despite the fact that you're gonna start blabbering about staying on topic:
Jordan annexed the West Bank after the war in 1948. Terror activity continued despite that fact.
After the war in 1967, the Kharoum Resolution guaranteed there would be no peace.

So, what should've Israel done? Simply retreat after taking over in 1967?

Let's see you answer an open ended question.

OTOH, the Israelis are allowed to move freely in the WB. Hypocrisy? I think so. Racism? Indeed.

While Palestinians try to kidnap and murder Jews, you can't say the same things about the Jews living/traveling there.

The hallmark of a glorious democratic system? Yeah right.

Nothing to do with democracy, and everything to do with security.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna
Congratulations Narmer, you're ignoring history to make my reply somehow fit your argument.

Here is a pointer for you, despite the fact that you're gonna start blabbering about staying on topic:
Jordan annexed the West Bank after the war in 1948. Terror activity continued despite that fact.
After the war in 1967, the Kharoum Resolution guaranteed there would be no peace.

So, what should've Israel done? Simply retreat after taking over in 1967?

Let's see you answer an open ended question.

No. they should've stayed until they found a via peace partner. However, if they are serious about peace, they never would've allowed the settlements in the first place because that would've hindered the negotiations. Therefore, these settlers, colonists are the real obstacle to peace, which is why I believe that the Israelis are not interested in peace since they don't want to deal with the settlers. And this goes back to the essence of this thread. The Israelis, if they are serious about peace, should deal with their problem before asking the Palestinians to deal with theirs. If they want to annex land, then go ahead. But you can't have an annexation of land and peace at the same time. You get one or the other, and we'll see if your serious about resolving this Palestinian problem. However, don't pretend that you have the highest esteem for law and order and equality when you try to make peace with those whom land you'd like to call your own. Either annex the damn land and be in breach of international law or give it back to the Palestinians and be true to your democratic spirit.

 

[Screech]

Stealing a hunk of land is wrong, but does not necessarily mean that Israel is undemocratic. Just messed up.

The rest of the stuff about checkpoints, etc falls essentially under the same category. Perhaps lame, Perhaps, for security reasons, but not really 'undemocratic.'

I do somewhat chuckle at the direction this debate has gone though:

Bad immigration policies, therefore Israel is undemocratic!
to
Apartheid in palestine, racism, and bad laws and institutions! And scary stuff! therefore, israel is undemocratic!
to
Israel is like South africa under apartheid! ( one of the most worn out arguments ever)
to
Palestinians have their own government that they vote for if they don't vote in Israel but ....but....but.....Israel is still undemocratic!
to
Israel oppressed Palestinians with checkpoints! therefore Israel is undemocratic!

Don't worry; sometime in the next 100 years or so you might randomly come across something that actually has to do with Israel not being a democratic nation. Until then, adieu.

 

[imported_dna]

You ignorance shows again. You talk as if right after 1967 a bazillion settlers went into the West Bank.

Seriously, take a look at this table. You can see that the number has been pretty much negligible for at least 10 years.

How long was Israel supposed to play the custodian's role?

You talk about peace partners while ignoring facts. Even when they though they found one, he proved to be a two-face, corrupt piece of sh*t.

 

[5150Joker]

Hey if I were an Israeli soldier, I'd use some Pal children as shields too! Its not like the Arabs will miss a few kids here and there, they breed like rabbits!

 

[Turkish]

Warlocked, are you from Israel or a conservative American?

 

[imported_dna]

Whoopsy Daisy:
IDF suspends officer over human shields