Well Trump supporters... Are we great again yet?

[[DHT]Osiris]

I would argue its our totally out of control spending not our income that is the issue.

The more advanced a system gets, the more energy is required to sustain it in order to get shit done. There's a whole lot of stuff going on within our government (state and federal), and you can only squeeze so much out of the <$100k/yr crowd before they stop spending money on New Things.

The top 5%, and corps, need the everloving shit taxed out of them in order to reap the harvest of our nation, and improve it further. That scratch is rotting on the vine right now.

EDIT: Caveat, I do not disagree with you when it comes to very, very specific things, like military spending. Overall most of our governmental offices need more though... money, manpower, etc. in order to actually get done what their job is.

 

[dank69]

I would argue its our totally out of control spending not our income that is the issue.

Yeah and billionaires spend lots of money to make sure people keep thinking that. This is what people are talking about when they say people are voting against their own self-interest, by the way. The government is there to serve you, and spend money on things that make your life better. They could be spending our tax dollars on healthcare for all, real infrastructure upgrades, free tuition, renewable energy subsidies to create real jobs in sectors that are growing instead of dying, etc. etc. These are policies that the Democrats support. These are policies that Republicans fight. These are policies that will actually help poor people get back on their feet and become even more productive members of society instead of just stagnating while more middle-class families descend into poverty with them.

 

[retrospooty]

Somewhat true, military spending has outrageously grown, Ike tried to warn us about that.

Yes, Military is huge, but its not just just military. It's across the board. Our Govt. is simply too large and to quick to spend more than they take in.

 

[dank69]

Yes, Military is huge, but its not just just military. It's across the board. Our Govt. is simply too large and to quick to spend more than they take in.

It's funny because tax cuts are also the reason we take so much less in...

 

[retrospooty]

The more advanced a system gets, the more energy is required to sustain it in order to get shit done. There's a whole lot of stuff going on within our government (state and federal)..............Overall most of our governmental offices need more though... money, manpower, etc. in order to actually get done what their job is.

That is because the govt. is WAY too big. We need to close alot of those offices and stop thinking we need to do alot of those pointless jobs. We simply spend too much. Costs are absolutely out of control and it is unsustainable. More govt. = less money period.

Lets not even get into how horribly congress (both D'd and R's) will screw up where to spend what.

 

[K1052]

That is because the govt. is WAY too big. We need to close alot of those offices and stop thinking we need to do alot of those pointless jobs. We simply spend too much. Costs are absolutely out of control and it is unsustainable. More govt. = less money period.

Lets not even get into how horribly congress (both D'd and R's) will screw up where to spend what.

This is rhetoric not policy. What specific government "offices" should be closed?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That is because the govt. is WAY too big. We need to close alot of those offices and stop thinking we need to do alot of those pointless jobs. We simply spend too much. Costs are absolutely out of control and it is unsustainable. More govt. = less money period.

Lets not even get into how horribly congress (both D'd and R's) will screw up where to spend what.

Can you cite a specific example (non-military) of a government office which is doing more harm by existing than good?

 

[dainthomas]

Want to take a stab at why his Maralargo (spelling?) membership rates went from around 100k to around 200k after he was elected?

I imagine it was so he could charge the Secret Service more for staying there.

 

[retrospooty]

@ K1052 and Osiris - Well for starters, the DEA and large parts of the ATF. Alot if redundant jobs and lot if ridiculous policies like the billions we spend on our antiquated drug policies that stop ZERO drug users from using drugs. That also rolls in to the prison system, we have a higher % of our population jailed than any other industrial nation. The vast majority is drug related. Another thing is redundant bureaucracies. FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland security, Federal marshals, DEA and ATF and that is JUST law enforcement. We have redundant bureaucracies all over the place. Apply that logic above to pretty much everything the govt does. Its simply too big.

 

[soundforbjt]

Well for starters, the DEA and large parts of the ATF. Alot if redundant jobs and lot if ridiculous policies like the billions we spend on our antiquated drug policies that stop ZERO drug users from using drugs. That also rolls in to the prison system, we have a higher % of our population jailed than any other industrial nation. The vast majority is drug related. Another thing is redundant bureaucracies. FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland security, Federal marshals, DEA and ATF and that is JUST law enforcement. We have redundant bureaucracies all over the place. Apply that logic above to pretty much everything the govt does. Its simply too big.

War on drugs, started by republicans, agree its a huge waste. Private prisons, also supported by republicans, also agree, bad idea. I'm sensing a pattern here. Homeland security, started under Bush, yep definitely a pattern.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

@ K1052 and Osiris - Well for starters, the DEA and large parts of the ATF. Alot if redundant jobs and lot if ridiculous policies like the billions we spend on our antiquated drug policies that stop ZERO drug users from using drugs. That also rolls in to the prison system, we have a higher % of our population jailed than any other industrial nation. The vast majority is drug related. Another thing is redundant bureaucracies. FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland security, Federal marshals, DEA and ATF and that is JUST law enforcement. We have redundant bureaucracies all over the place. Apply that logic above to pretty much everything the govt does. Its simply too big.

Those agencies have different missions (for protection from single-entity overreach and checks & balances). To eliminate any, would require granting permission to others to fill their roles. You'd create a worse situation by decommissioning any.

I agree that the war on drugs should end, and with it some of these jobs would be unnecessary and could be sunset. That cannot be done until the *reason* they exist goes away, however.

Bear in mind that a large percentage of our existing prisoners are housed in private prisons as well, so factor that in to what 'the government' spends.

 

[K1052]

The DEA is like $2.5B out of $4 trillion in expenditures. While I would agree with the elimination of the DEA for other policy reasons it, by itself, is not a significant driver of government expenditures.

We could probably squeeze a billion out of consolidating some LEO functions but you're still just barely scratching the surface.

 

[retrospooty]

Those agencies have different missions (for protection from single-entity overreach and checks & balances). To eliminate any, would require granting permission to others to fill their roles. You'd create a worse situation by decommissioning any.

I agree that the war on drugs should end, and with it some of these jobs would be unnecessary and could be sunset. That cannot be done until the *reason* they exist goes away, however.

Bear in mind that a large percentage of our existing prisoners are housed in private prisons as well, so factor that in to what 'the government' spends.

Yes, alot of diff. missions but alot of redundancy as well. Again that is just some examples. The govt waste is astounding and we should all be pissed off about it. Don't even get me started on the FDA!

 

[K1052]

Those agencies have different missions (for protection from single-entity overreach and checks & balances). To eliminate any, would require granting permission to others to fill their roles. You'd create a worse situation by decommissioning any.

This is a valid point. Some areas of responsibility have to be partitioned off to avoid other, worse, problems.

 

[retrospooty]

War on drugs, started by republicans, agree its a huge waste. Private prisons, also supported by republicans, also agree, bad idea. I'm sensing a pattern here. Homeland security, started under Bush, yep definitely a pattern.

Exactly, and another thing - I am sure alot of those $400 toilet seat covers and $250 hammers the military buys are from corporate buddies of alot of reps. All waste and corruption. Giving these asshats more money is definitely not the answer. Dems are just as bad though. They all do it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

You know what, here, have fun with this:

From 2012, but the point stands. You figure out a way to to either a) reduce the 62% of our spending that goes to military/foreign affairs and SS/medicare, or b) increase the income from taxation on *everyone*. Or you know, bump up that nice 7% slice of corporations worth billions.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Exactly, and another thing - I am sure alot of those $400 toilet seat covers and $250 hammers the military buys are from corporate buddies of alot of reps. All waste and corruption. Giving these asshats more money is definitely not the answer. Dems are just as bad though. They all do it.

Don't fall into that trap. Those '$400 toilet seats and $250 hammers' were a gross misrepresentation of fact which has somehow stuck around as long as the 'welfare queen' image has. There's a lot of places we overspending, but hammers and toilet seats are NOT those places.

 

[retrospooty]

This is a valid point. Some areas of responsibility have to be partitioned off to avoid other, worse, problems.

Yeah great points. That kind of thinking has us over $19 trillion in debt though. If you had a wife and 4 hungry kids that you couldn't afford to feed would you keep buying BMW's and Mercedes and going on expensive vacations? The spending has to stop FFS. It would be different if we had the money.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah great points. That kind of thinking has us over $19 trillion in debt though. If you had a wife and 4 hungry kids that you couldn't afford to feed would you keep buying BMW's and Mercedes and going on expensive vacations? The spending has to stop FFS. It would be different if we had the money.

The government is not a household, despite what some politicians would have you believe.

 

[K1052]

Yeah great points. That kind of thinking has us over $19 trillion in debt though. If you had a wife and 4 hungry kids that you couldn't afford to feed would you keep buying BMW's and Mercedes and going on expensive vacations? The spending has to stop FFS. It would be different if we had the money.

A unitary security agency that handled everything stands the non-trivial possibility of overthrowing our democratically elected government, as has happened in other countries. That's worth a few extra pennies out out of my paycheck.

 

[retrospooty]

Don't fall into that trap. Those '$400 toilet seats and $250 hammers' were a gross misrepresentation of fact which has somehow stuck around as long as the 'welfare queen' image has. There's a lot of places we overspending, but hammers and toilet seats are NOT those places.

Just examples. The point is the govt overspends. Sometimes its negligent, sometimes its on purpose and IMO criminal, but it is always wasteful.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Just examples. The point is the govt overspends. Sometimes its negligent, sometimes its on purpose and IMO criminal, but it is always wasteful.

Fine, there's wasteful spending in large organizations. That's a known facet of our inefficiencies as humans and it's accounted for. You don't set fire to the entire damned system because of it though.

And again, those aren't examples. It's a misrepresentation of what a government spending docket looks like. Nobody paid $250 for a hammer.

 

[retrospooty]

Fine, there's wasteful spending in large organizations. That's a known facet of our inefficiencies as humans and it's accounted for. You don't set fire to the entire damned system because of it though.

Yes, it is inevitable the larger the org. the more waste and our govt is too large. I am not saying shut it all down, but we can really eliminate alot of redundant spending.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, it is inevitable the larger the org. the more waste and our govt is too large. I am not saying shut it all down, but we can really eliminate alot of redundant spending.

You might think so, but believe me, there's entire sections of each of those offices dedicated to curtailing FWA (fraud, waste, and abuse) which ironically is almost unilaterally underfunded and understaffed.

 

[retrospooty]

You might think so, but believe me, there's entire sections of each of those offices dedicated to curtailing FWA (fraud, waste, and abuse) which ironically is almost unilaterally underfunded and understaffed.

Fair enough, but I think you get my point. Alot of waste, too big govt.

/edit - actually none of that was my main point, my main point was asking the short sighted people that voted for Chump what they thing about him now. LOL.