well my machine killed another power supply, how often do you overclockers go through PSUs?

[daw123]

I was originally going to buy a crappy £50 PSU for my build, until I read a few threads. The budget increased to £150 and I ended up buying a Antec TPQ 1000W PSU (which had a quite a few good reviews) for about £130 exc shipping. I don't expect this PSU to die on me and it should last a number of years.

My point is don't buy a crappy PSU and if you do expect trouble.

From what I've read the rule of thumb is 10% of the build cost should be spent on the PSU; i.e. spending £1,500 on the CPU, MB, RAM, etc. should equate to a PSU costing about £150.

 

[Assimilator1]

Originally posted by: keird
You're going through PSUs like a ferret on amphetamines

:laugh: lol good one.

I had an Antec 430 go flaky on the 5v line in my old main rig (XPM @2.5 GHz, X800XT PE), I've still got TP II 430 that replaced it running my o/ced Q6600 @3.34 GHz & HD 4830. Btw it's barely loaded to 50% capacity even running F@H on the CPU & GPU.

My brothers old PC (Sempron 3100 @2.4 GHz & X800XT) literally had a PSU go bang & catch fire!!:shocked:, that wasn't a cheapy either, it was a Hiper 430. Amazingly everything else survived!.

Never had a cheapy PSU die on me but I've had to replace several Antec PSUs in the past .

$350 on a PSU?? lol more money than sense .

SSSnail
Of course people o/c, why on earth not??

Rubycon
Speakie English?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I had an old Deer PSU go on me, on my old PII rig. It may not have been crappy quality, I think I forgot to plug the (replaced) PSU fan in. I had run the 4-pin molex out external to the PSU, so it needed to be plugged into a PSU molex.

The machine survived, thankfully.

Oh, and I once had an Athlon XP 1800+ rig running on a CodeGen 350W PSU that came with the codegen case I was using. It didn't much like my upgrade to a Radeon X850 pro, the HDs spun down every time I tried to use the 3D card. So I upgraded to a SuperFlower 520W, that I picked up cheap from Directron.com.

Now I primarily use Antec, although I bought a 800W Xion to try out, because it has four PCI-E power connectors. Also picked up 10 Enhance PSUs on that hot deal from geeks.com. Hopefully they will be getting here soon.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: zanejohnson
i think it might just be the crappy power supplys i've been using, (Codegen 550 watters) the specs are decent, had a pretty strong 5v rail (30A) but a weak 12V rail (16A)

Uh, yeah. The only reason that Codegen lasted as long as it did is because your systems (in your sig) don't need much power.

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Never had a cheapy PSU die on me but I've had to replace several Antec PSUs in the past .

Antec had a bad few years with Fuhjyyu capacitors in their PSUs.

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Also picked up 10 Enhance PSUs on that hot deal from geeks.com. Hopefully they will be getting here soon.

Those are the only $15 power supplies (besides that Antec EarthWatts 380 from a hot deal a year ago) that I would use.

 

[Markfw]

I have killed 2 good ones, but due to the load. An Antec 550 and an OCZ 600, driving 2 9800 GTX+ cards @ 750 mhz, and an overclocked Q6600@3.5. The Fortron 700's seem to have enough juice.

And this is running the video cards@100%load and the cpu @100%load 24/7 doing F@H.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Zero for me because I don't buy crappy PSU.

QFT!

BTW, people still OC?

no the 975 just comes in 4.6ghz @ stock didnt you know that?

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/Capture5.jpg
(sarcasm)


OP, i think your power from the outlet is probably unstable and its stressing your psu out.

next time grab one of these guys, there called ups, and they tend to save hardware.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0059.jpg

Originally posted by: Assimilator1


$350 on a PSU?? lol more money than sense .

SSSnail
Of course people o/c, why on earth not??

Rubycon
Speakie English?

How about i showed ya $1000 in psus i went though to pair my classified?
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_1351.jpg

The PSU is the most overlooked EQ, yet it powers EVERYTHING in your box. I dont understand why people dont understand the value in a quality PSU. If your PSU dies, its the only part in your computer that can take the entire computer with it.

 

[Kraeoss]

ahh some how i wish i could get a psu like that 1kw in your pic man !

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Kraeoss
ahh some how i wish i could get a psu like that 1kw in your pic man !

antec 850 + 1.6KW ultra + PCnC 1 kw SR.

Those are my big guns.... :\

Then i have a PCnC 750 and a Zeus as backup.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Dat's wat happenz wen u tryin' 2 toon ur whip wid doze cline dikes and u snip 2 much medal off teh top! Now ur swrz are toppin' tree N ur sweet-16'z finalz r bussin' ur 'lectric systemz up reel good - nowatimsayin'? Nice 148GTLDX tho - can tellz by da roger beepz. Werd.

That's rich! You overshadow Mark Twain and a million Hollywood script-writers! "Bad-ba-ba-ad-bad-bad, Sistah-girl!"


When I had "academic status" and built my own, I bought primer-gray low-end PSUs. I even had an Antec 320 go on the fritz. It became clear to me -- no matter what you're doin' -- get a good PSU.

Aigo touts his high-wattage "Guns-of-Navarone." He won't argue with me on this, though: if the sustained rating is comfortably above the needs of the equipment you'll use or add anytime soon, you don't need 1000W.

But you DO need a good PSU. You can get good PSU's for less than $100. For instance, a Seasonic 550HT. Seasonic saves me a lot of work keeping up with bench reviews of other PSU-maker products. I'm getting lazy for that. Ah jus' LUVS Seasonic -- and according to the skinny on the street, even PCP&C (now OCZ) luvs 'em to pieces.

Codegen? CODEGEN! Wha's dat?! Even the crappy PSUs have more familiar names! It's not the "name" per se -- it's the quality. Generally, the quality and the name go hand-in-hand, arm-in-arm, Amps-in-Watts.

Save yourself some wuff-tickets and get some good juice in your whatchamacallem.

 

[RallyMaster]

All of my PSUs (well, except the one for my laptop) are Seasonic OEMs so I haven't killed any of them yet. I've only had a crappy one die and some Antec Smartpower flake out but that's because they both were shitty.

 

[westom]

Originally posted by: zanejohnson
so how many crappy psu's have you guys killed with your overclocked machines?

Power supplies could never be killed by the load even long before PCs existed. And (contradicting those who made the statement without any reasons to believe them) no power supply can harm anything in the computer. That was also required long before PCs existed.

How do you know this is true? This post also says why multiple times over. Even Intel specs for power supplies required functions that make such damage impossible.

However, when selling to people without any electrical knowledge (ie computer assemblers), then some manufacturers have a market ripe for scams. They dump supplies that are missing essential functions, sell them for a lower price, hype the vague watts number, and include no full page of numeric specs.

The naive recommend supplies on watts and dollars. Sell a supply at lower cost with missing functions - and reap a higher profit. Sell that same supply with a different name for higher dollars. Reap a bigger profit. The naive will see the computer work; then assume the supply is good.

Well a defective supply can even boot a computer. And failures months or years later due to that missing function get blamed on other myths such as surges.

Why does a minimally acceptable supply provide a full sheet of numeric specifications with each supply? That says the supply cannot be damaged by any computer and the supply cannot damage any computer.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: westom

Originally posted by: zanejohnson
so how many crappy psu's have you guys killed with your overclocked machines?

Power supplies could never be killed by the load even long before PCs existed. And (contradicting those who made the statement without any reasons to believe them) no power supply can harm anything in the computer. That was also required long before PCs existed.

How do you know this is true? This post also says why multiple times over. Even Intel specs for power supplies required functions that make such damage impossible.

However, when selling to people without any electrical knowledge (ie computer assemblers), then some manufacturers have a market ripe for scams. They dump supplies that are missing essential functions, sell them for a lower price, hype the vague watts number, and include no full page of numeric specs.

The naive recommend supplies on watts and dollars. Sell a supply at lower cost with missing functions - and reap a higher profit. Sell that same supply with a different name for higher dollars. Reap a bigger profit. The naive will see the computer work; then assume the supply is good.

Well a defective supply can even boot a computer. And failures months or years later due to that missing function get blamed on other myths such as surges.

Why does a minimally acceptable supply provide a full sheet of numeric specifications with each supply? That says the supply cannot be damaged by any computer and the supply cannot damage any computer.

We need a face palm emotion....

ive seen cases where the psu took out an entire computer.
I personally have a first hand case where it took out my board cpu and ram.

And a stable PSU means a LOT to the overclocker, so where are you pulling this info from?

 

[westom]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
ive seen cases where the psu took out an entire computer.
I personally have a first hand case where it took out my board cpu and ram.
And a stable PSU means a LOT to the overclocker, so where are you pulling this info from?

Information *pulled* from generations of electronics standards, datasheets for the semiconductors that make power supplies work, designing power supplies, and even Intel's standards for supplies.

Meanwhile, knowledge from observation without knowing these basic principles is called junk science. In one case, another just knew a power supply destroyed the computer. Because he was shotgunning, he never knew the entire computer was unharmed. He was wrong because he knew only using observation and because he was confused by shotgunning.

Damning is your question. Basic electrical knowledge means no reason to ask from where that information comes. It's common knowledge with basic computer electronics knowledge. No minimally acceptable supply can damage a computer. Not only should you know that. You should also know why.

Many power supplies maybe missing essential functions because that market is computer assemblers who only judge based upon dollars and watts. Who do not understand why numeric specifications are critical, in part, because of no grasp of what those specs state.

A power supply must never harm a computer. And a supply must not be harmed by the load.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Harabec
Do you guys in the US get all the crap that does not even pass inspection in china?

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure a significant portion of crashes blamed on Windows are actually caused by the power supply. My old eMachines computer would often do a black screen when trying to play a game. Not even a blue screen saying something is wrong, but the screen goes black because the video output stops responding. That same exact thing happens if you try to run a GeForce 7950GT without plugging in the power, but this eMachines was using integrated ATI graphics. The OEM used a crap PSU that couldn't even drive the hardware. That should never happen.

Similarly, lots of people complained that Windows 95 (a fairly graphics/CPU intense OS at that time) crashed a lot. I bought a new computer in December 1995, assembled by some local nerds, and it rarely crashed. I used it for about 4 years before retiring it. Good PSU?


It's not really a surprise that this happens. Go to a website like Dell or Best Buy and see what the cheapest computer costs. $400? If you were a company like Dell and you were selling $400 computers, would you use a $13 PSU rated as 430W or would you pay $50 to get the cheapest PSU on Newegg where the words "power factor" appear in the description? I'd probably use the cheap one; it's not like our retarded customers will tell the difference. There's a real demand for crap power supplies.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I've never had a PSU fail, yet, even the cheap ones.

 

[Spoelie]

The thing westom is trying to say is that a *properly designed* psu should not in any way harm the components on failure, if one does, it means they skimped on the basics..

I had 2 antecs die on our htpc, but each didn't break any other hardware while doing so. It wasn't due to load tho, guess bad luck.

A seasonic/corsair hx520 has been *silently* serving my main rig for a few years now, no loud 1KW psu needed.
4 HDD, 3 120mm, 4GB PC1066, Phenom II @ 3.36ghz, 4850 @ 725/1100mhz, 790FX/SB750, Xonar with power connector

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: westom

Originally posted by: aigomorla
ive seen cases where the psu took out an entire computer.
I personally have a first hand case where it took out my board cpu and ram.
And a stable PSU means a LOT to the overclocker, so where are you pulling this info from?

Information *pulled* from generations of electronics standards, datasheets for the semiconductors that make power supplies work, designing power supplies, and even Intel's standards for supplies.

Meanwhile, knowledge from observation without knowing these basic principles is called junk science. In one case, another just knew a power supply destroyed the computer. Because he was shotgunning, he never knew the entire computer was unharmed. He was wrong because he knew only using observation and because he was confused by shotgunning.

Damning is your question. Basic electrical knowledge means no reason to ask from where that information comes. It's common knowledge with basic computer electronics knowledge. No minimally acceptable supply can damage a computer. Not only should you know that. You should also know why.

Many power supplies maybe missing essential functions because that market is computer assemblers who only judge based upon dollars and watts. Who do not understand why numeric specifications are critical, in part, because of no grasp of what those specs state.

A power supply must never harm a computer. And a supply must not be harmed by the load.

I don't know how you can even come up with this. Its a fact, if you overload a circuit, something will break. In the case of power supplies, if you put too much load on them, they WILL fail, even the good ones. If you put 3 GTX295 video cards on a Seasonic 380, and run them at full load, it will burn out. And if certain parts of a PSU fail, it will overvolt, and some part of the PC will die, for the same reason.

THESE ARE FACTS.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster
All of my PSUs (well, except the one for my laptop) are Seasonic OEMs so I haven't killed any of them yet. I've only had a crappy one die and some Antec Smartpower flake out but that's because they both were shitty.

I've got three Seasonics (650HT, 700 M12, 550HT), an OCZ Powerstream, an Antec NeoP_ 500, and an old P4 system (2003) with a cheap unit that still had decent reviews. Just based on a good review for a 750W BFG unit, I thought I'd try a $40 bargain-offer from BFG, and it failed for reasons I think I identified after I unplugged and re-plugged the three-prong power-connector to it.

I have a friend who swears by PCP&C since 2003. He was willing to spend the money. I, Maximum PC Mag and other sources may have assumed too long that PCP&C had unassailable quality -- even at the higher price. Then I heard that their "Silencer" units were rebadged Seasonics.

I just noticed that the Egg is featuring a 750W PCP&C for after-rebate $109. I looked at the 604 some-odd customer reviews: the single-star ratings seem to be almost exclusively DOA; the two-star ratings seem to include some share of DOA. Just on the basis of the single-star ratings, it looks to be close to a 7% QC fail-rate -- higher than many Seasonics and Silencers.

I don't know what happened after OCZ acquired PCP&C. Your guess is as good as mine. But even when I buy Seasonic, I still test my longstanding assumptions against current reviews.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: westom

Originally posted by: aigomorla
ive seen cases where the psu took out an entire computer.
I personally have a first hand case where it took out my board cpu and ram.
And a stable PSU means a LOT to the overclocker, so where are you pulling this info from?

Information *pulled* from generations of electronics standards, datasheets for the semiconductors that make power supplies work, designing power supplies, and even Intel's standards for supplies.

Meanwhile, knowledge from observation without knowing these basic principles is called junk science. In one case, another just knew a power supply destroyed the computer. Because he was shotgunning, he never knew the entire computer was unharmed. He was wrong because he knew only using observation and because he was confused by shotgunning.

Damning is your question. Basic electrical knowledge means no reason to ask from where that information comes. It's common knowledge with basic computer electronics knowledge. No minimally acceptable supply can damage a computer. Not only should you know that. You should also know why.

Many power supplies maybe missing essential functions because that market is computer assemblers who only judge based upon dollars and watts. Who do not understand why numeric specifications are critical, in part, because of no grasp of what those specs state.

A power supply must never harm a computer. And a supply must not be harmed by the load.

Okey and how do you explain it when a PSU blows its capacitors?

Or how about using a psu which has a power raiting lower then what you need, ie... using a sub 700W psu for a SLI system, and a sub 1kw for a quadfire?

Im assuming accordig to your knowledge that would be "acceptable"?

Oh incase you didnt know, people were frying there HD4870X2 by not providing it with enough power.

I blew one out, and so did another friend of mine.

So how do you explain that then my friend?


Westom Have you:

1. overclocked your computer b4?
2. even messed with a vcore, well even b4 that have you used an aftermarket cpu sink even?
3. built a mid class computer whose value is around 1500 in total parts?

PSU statements like this shows me that your just a stock system builder who mirrors dells.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

[I'm not going to step into the middle of the weston-aigomorla cat-fight, but I'm still wondering if I may have damaged a component with that s***-a**ed BFG GS-550 I mentioned.]

Okay! DING! Round Three, youse guys!

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
[I'm not going to step into the middle of the weston-aigomorla cat-fight, but I'm still wondering if I may have damaged a component with that s***-a**ed BFG GS-550 I mentioned.]

Okay! DING! Round Three, youse guys!

Bonzai go post this in power supplies.

i have no idea why allisom moved it in cpu and overclocking.

Lemme see if i can get someone to move it there.

 

[Modelworks]

Same PSU for over 2 years.
Specs mean little on a cheap psu. 12V @ 20A can mean that it provides that 2 seconds before it goes up in smoke.
Always use a UPS or at least a surge protector on PSU

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
[I'm not going to step into the middle of the weston-aigomorla cat-fight, but I'm still wondering if I may have damaged a component with that s***-a**ed BFG GS-550 I mentioned.]

Okay! DING! Round Three, youse guys!

Bonzai go post this in power supplies.

i have no idea why allisom moved it in cpu and overclocking.

Lemme see if i can get someone to move it there.

I was wondering why this thread had disappeared from CPUs & Overclocking.

Any way, I agree with Aigo and Mark.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
I have a friend who swears by PCP&C since 2003. He was willing to spend the money. I, Maximum PC Mag and other sources may have assumed too long that PCP&C had unassailable quality -- even at the higher price. Then I heard that their "Silencer" units were rebadged Seasonics.

Win-Tact makes PCP&C Turbo-Cool units. That leaves how many units actually manufactured by PCP&C?

FYI in case anyone doesn't know... Antec does not manufacture Antec power supplies. Corsair does not manufacture Corsair power supplies. Etc.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
I have a friend who swears by PCP&C since 2003. He was willing to spend the money. I, Maximum PC Mag and other sources may have assumed too long that PCP&C had unassailable quality -- even at the higher price. Then I heard that their "Silencer" units were rebadged Seasonics.

Win-Tact makes PCP&C Turbo-Cool units. That leaves how many units actually manufactured by PCP&C?

FYI in case anyone doesn't know... Antec does not manufacture Antec power supplies. Corsair does not manufacture Corsair power supplies. Etc.

Zap, for my curiousity and for those who may be buying a new PSU, would it be possible to give a general run down of who actually manufactures the branded PSUs?

Thanks.