welcome to 4th generation warfare

[Darwin333]

We need to help these countries, and peoples, establish Governments that are not based in Religion, but rather in the belief that all men are created equal, or...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

George Bush, went a long way towards this, when he assumed control of Iraq, but he lost sight of the goal, and succumbed to the pressures of the "liberals."

Nation Building is exactly what has to be done in these areas. They have a lot to offer. Including poppy seeds.

-John

What exactly gives us the right to do that to other sovereign nations besides "might makes right"?

 

[Darwin333]

Imperial Japan & Nazi Germany were changed culturally and it didn't take centuries, just the will and determination to do so.

Yeah but we pretty much firebombed all of their major cities, dropped a few nukes, and killed a metric fuckload of their male populations. They were truly beaten to the point that they lost the will to fight anymore because it was real war which is a very horrible thing. We don't have the stomach for that anymore and considering these nations aren't any sort of real threat to us I am glad that we don't.

Let the countries involved handle it. If they ask for help we can supply logistics, weapons and supplies but otherwise we need to stay the hell out.

 

[zanejohnson]

most of you guys are all wrong...

the reason we're not doing anything about ISIS is because it's our own creation... it's OUR MERCENARY ARMY. paid for by your tax dollars.

the point is, to destabilize M.E. legitimate governments via ISIS, so that we can install our puppet govs in their place.......so that we can control policy in the region and install western banking.

yep, that's how the USA does business. if you haven't noticed, Putin is countering every move we make with his own little mercenary army...

it's called a proxy war, and now it's starting to come to a head. soon it wont just be the M.E. and eastern ukraine... it's going to be the baltic states next... our little fiasco with IRAN is USA doing everythig it can to PROVOKE putin to go even farther, so that we can justify a HOT war with Russia directlly eventually...


who's pulling the strings in USA.GOV? the tail wagging the dog? who do you think? the zionist regime in Israel.

 

[zanejohnson]

What exactly gives us the right to do that to other sovereign nations besides "might makes right"?

nothing gives us that right. it's downright vile.


but that's how we do business. dont like it? neither do i. but that's what it is, and if we dont go along with it they have a nice little place for you in a secret detention facility somewhere.

 

[zinfamous]

That's crazy. How come this stuff isn't on the news?

Oh, I thought it's been out there for a while. Well, on the real news sights, anyway.

It's not a simple black and white situation--these farmers can't easily switch over to a new crop, and they and their families are regularly murdered if they aren't supplying their opium quota, so you have to weigh keeping some sort of serviceable economy to these parts of the country, which also keep relative peace, but also supports your top enemy throughout the world.

 

[zinfamous]

most of you guys are all wrong...

zane johnson...claiming everyone else is wrong. This should be good.

the reason we're not doing anything about ISIS is because it's our own creation... it's OUR MERCENARY ARMY. paid for by your tax dollars.

the point is, to destabilize M.E. legitimate governments via ISIS, so that we can install our puppet govs in their place.......so that we can control policy in the region and install western banking.

yep, that's how the USA does business. if you haven't noticed, Putin is countering every move we make with his own little mercenary army...

it's called a proxy war, and now it's starting to come to a head. soon it wont just be the M.E. and eastern ukraine... it's going to be the baltic states next... our little fiasco with IRAN is USA doing everythig it can to PROVOKE putin to go even farther, so that we can justify a HOT war with Russia directlly eventually...


who's pulling the strings in USA.GOV? the tail wagging the dog? who do you think? the zionist regime in Israel.

yep, not disappointed.

 

[zanejohnson]

Oh, I thought it's been out there for a while. Well, on the real news sights, anyway.

It's not a simple black and white situation--these farmers can't easily switch over to a new crop, and they and their families are regularly murdered if they aren't supplying their opium quota, so you have to weigh keeping some sort of serviceable economy to these parts of the country, which also keep relative peace, but also supports your top enemy throughout the world.

apparently you missed the whole Contra debacle decades ago?

it never stopped, we aren't protecting the "familys" who grow opium.......jeez louise...

that opium is hitting the streets of America as heroin.

 

[zinfamous]

apparently you missed the whole Contra debacle decades ago?

it never stopped, we aren't protecting the "familys" who grow opium.......jeez louise...

that opium is hitting the streets of America as heroin.

Lucky for you right?

too far? :hmm:

 

[werepossum]

zane johnson...claiming everyone else is wrong. This should be good.

yep, not disappointed.

That was an impressive stretch even for him. But hey, if everything in the world is America's fault and everything America does is orchestrated by the Jews, maybe they should be in charge of the world after all. If 0.2% of the world's population is secretly running the world and nobody knows it without, um, chemical augmentation, them Jews must be some smart mofos, I tell ya.

 

[norseamd]

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/201...-isnt-just-asia-anymore/109108/?oref=d-skybox

 

[norseamd]

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/07/...-dangerous-world-but-not-how-to-deal-with-it/

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I have 3 words to end the problem.."Tactical Nuclear weapons"..

Please, and in complete detail, explain how you nuke an ideology. isis/isil is not a country, or geographical locale, it's and idea (a horrible, murderous, hideous idea, but just and idea).

 

[Jaskalas]

Please, and in complete detail, explain how you nuke and ideology. isis/isil is not a country, or geographical locale, it's and idea (a horrible, murderous, hideous idea, but just and idea).

Stop pretending ISIS is not material, isn't a militia that holds a geographical locale, and isn't acting as a local government. They are, and they can easily be blown away with enough force.

The local population was subjugated by ISIS, they can in turn be subjugated by someone else.

 

[norseamd]

Stop pretending ISIS is not material, isn't a militia that holds a geographical locale, and isn't acting as a local government. They are, and they can easily be blown away with enough force.

The local population was subjugated by ISIS, they can in turn be subjugated by someone else.

Quit thinking like Rumsfield.

 

[SSSnail]

Please, and in complete detail, explain how you nuke an ideology. isis/isil is not a country, or geographical locale, it's and idea (a horrible, murderous, hideous idea, but just and idea).

It's OK, it's a big problem right now, but if we blow them away, they'll become a smaller problem.

And, if the problem gets big again? Yup, blow them away, again. You see how easy that was? You're right that you can't kill an ideology, but you sure can kill the idiots that foster the ideology. At the same time, you'd try to prevent the ideology from spreading like a disease. But first, you'll have to deal with the problem.

You can't just say, "Well, it's an ideology" and leave it alone.

Quit thinking like Rumsfield.

But he's right.

 

[norseamd]

But he's right.

Regardless of if he is or not tactical nuclear weapons are not something that can be used on a whim.

And also if we get rid of ISIS and do not deal with the socio-political climate in the area all we are going to see is another Sunni fundamentalist organization or even many of them move in and take over the area yet again and then we get even more destruction and genocide and all that other glorious bullshit.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Regardless of if he is or not tactical nuclear weapons are not something that can be used on a whim.

And also if we get rid of ISIS and do not deal with the socio-political climate in the area all we are going to see is another Sunni fundamentalist organization or even many of them move in and take over the area yet again and then we get even more destruction and genocide and all that other glorious bullshit.

The really disturbing thing is that there are "normal" posters here who would have no problem nuking a city of people just because the news stories frighten them
Daesh is subjugating some people.
Their solution? Nuke them all and make the horrible news stories go away

 

[norseamd]

Daesh is subjugating some people.

Far more than that but there are many options available and many of them do not involve the obvious bullshit that would be involved in using nuclear weapons.

 

[Murloc]

Please, and in complete detail, explain how you nuke an ideology. isis/isil is not a country, or geographical locale, it's and idea (a horrible, murderous, hideous idea, but just and idea).

ISIL has a clear power base that straddles the syrian-iraqi border. The population is mostly around a river while the rest is mostly desert with low population density.

It wouldn't fix the ideological issue but killing all extremists in that area would destroy the IS. After 10 years, their kids will have grown up and a new extremist group will rise, since the shia-dominated governments would continue.

The underlying ideology can't be eliminated but its spread to other muslim countries in particular could be reduced by cutting foreign funding for extremist preachers.

The best solution is making that green area along the river in the middle between the two countries independent and united, free to kill each other, and making Latakia, Rojava + Iraqi Kurdistan, Jabal al-Druze, and the Arab Shia part of Iraq independent countries.

Of course, Turkey will never allow this to happen because they have a problem with kurds, arab supremacists will oppose this out of principle, Saudis will not like an Iranian puppet state on their border, Iran would not like kurdistan and may either like having 3 shia crescent countries solidly under their control, or they may not like this as the current conflict-ridden situation is a form of gerrymandering that gives some power to shia arabs over Iraq and Syria (this is unraveling though, the syrian government won't last forever).

 

[Orignal Earl]

ISIL has a clear power base that straddles the syrian-iraqi border. The population is mostly around a river while the rest is mostly desert with low population density.

It wouldn't fix the ideological issue but killing all extremists in that area would destroy the IS. After 10 years, their kids will have grown up and a new extremist group will rise, since the shia-dominated governments would continue.

The underlying ideology can't be eliminated but its spread to other muslim countries in particular could be reduced by cutting foreign funding for extremist preachers.

The best solution is making that green area along the river in the middle between the two countries independent and united, free to kill each other, and making Latakia, Rojava + Iraqi Kurdistan, Jabal al-Druze, and the Arab Shia part of Iraq independent countries.

Of course, Turkey will never allow this to happen because they have a problem with kurds, arab supremacists will oppose this out of principle, Saudis will not like an Iranian puppet state on their border, Iran would not like kurdistan and may either like having 3 shia crescent countries solidly under their control, or they may not like this as the current conflict-ridden situation is a form of gerrymandering that gives some power to shia arabs over Iraq and Syria (this is unraveling though, the syrian government won't last forever).

Every group is now claiming to be Daesh, Daesh is claiming every attack they can as one of their own.
Daesh is the new big thing, AQ is worn out

 

[Jaskalas]

The really disturbing thing is that there are "normal" posters here who would have no problem nuking a city of people just because the news stories frighten them
Daesh is subjugating some people.
Their solution? Nuke them all and make the horrible news stories go away

To the thousands they have committed genocide against, those are no mere "news stories".
To the thousands of women that are now slaves, those are no mere "news stories".

Daesh facing extermination would be a benefit to the world, and it doesn't have to involve nukes. The militia only functions while it has freedom to move about the region. There is no reason for them to retain communications or mobility. A competent military can isolate each city and let the Iraqi / Syrian governments do the cleanup.

 

[Orignal Earl]

To the thousands they have committed genocide against, those are no mere "news stories".
To the thousands of women that are now slaves, those are no mere "news stories".

Of course they aren't mere news stories to the people involved, I was commenting on the Americans who would commit genocide to get rid of the mere news stories

Daesh facing extermination would be a benefit to the world, and it doesn't have to involve nukes. The militia only functions while it has freedom to move about the region. There is no reason for them to retain communications or mobility. A competent military can isolate each city and let the Iraqi / Syrian governments do the cleanup.

I suppose your thinking a competent military should invade Iraq and bring peace to the region

 

[FerrelGeek]

Yep. As others have said, total war it the only true way to fight a war. The only way you can win a war is to obliterate your enemy's will to continue to fight. The Brits could've beaten the US during the revolution, but they lost the will to do the needful. Not complaining, mind you. The Union beat the Confederacy by relentlessly beating them down, ex, Sherman's march to the sea - burning and salting as he went. A 'nice clean war' may give you short term peace but unless the will of 'loser' can be changed that peace won't be long lived.

Go watch the original Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon'.

And this may enrage the Confederate flag burners on here, but this quote is true -

"It is well that war is so terrible - lest we should grow too fond of it.", Robert E. Lee, on viewing the carnage of the Dec 11-15, 1862, battle of Fredericksburg, Viginia.

They're just taking advantage of our non-willingness to blow them the fuck up.

Edit: You know, it occurs to me that we carry out war like scrubs play video games. That is we play (war) within the constraints of self-imposed rules while the guys who are truly playing (warring) to win mercilessly exploit whatever advantages are afforded them without compunction. There's no wonder all our conflicts get stretched out into infinity. Massive wealth is the only reason we can compete at all.

 

[Nebor]

A relatively small amount of Western Special Operations Forces supported by air power are enough to keep ISIS off balance and without international reach. For the most part, the region is seeing those who hate America killing others who hate America at little cost to us Americans. I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the humanitarian crisis, as worse things have been happening in Africa every day for the past 30 years.

It doesn't sit well with me to see American soldiers die in a fight that the Iraqi military has fled from at every turn. They deserve only what they're willing to fight for and nothing more, IMO.

 

[TheSlamma]

It's too bad Islam didn't have their middle ages at the same time Christianity did. Instead of RPG's and AK's they would have just had Scimitars and composite bows and by the 21st century you would be able to entertain and isolate them like we do with NASCAR and Bass Pro Shops.