We seem to be getting closer:

[Sunburn74]

Except that it was Democrats that pushed Trump over the top

I still can't understand how people who love the ACA and know they need it to stay alive would vote for people who are united in getting rid of it.

 

[jmagg]

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Moonbeam]

This week trump is a master manipulator. Next week he's a man-brat. The week after that? He's hitler again.

Stop over thinking this. Trump ran against Hilary and the DNC, before that the RNC tried to take him down.

People infinitely more qualified to shape opinions than you already exhausted every option.

Moral of the story - pick a better candidate. Preferably one not under FBI investigation?

Sorry, not investigation - "security inquiry". Yeah.

Your post is logically incoherent. All the events you describe are in the past, done deals. All past options have nothing to do with the now, which is were we have to deal with Trump as President. He's a vile authoritarian who manipulates the Angry and ignorant patriotism of simple Americans on the right to pursue a vile agenda that is bad for just those same people. They will not see it if Trump is attacked, but they will the more people around them begin to see the pattern for what it is. McCarthyism was crushed in the same way. More and more people begin to see it was morally indecent. Is the pattern still invisible to you. It sounds like it. You are manbe not there yet but you will be. Trump knows how to tickle your amygdala, but a fatigue point will come and the fog will lift and you won't believe you could have ever been so blind and you will tell yourself you knew all along, which will actually be true because you already know you're being lied to, but right now you want to believe it so you tell yourself you do. That will change as soon as the pattern becomes clear and you see you're being used. I hate him for doing that to you. You have my sympathy.

 

[Jhhnn]

This week trump is a master manipulator. Next week he's a man-brat. The week after that? He's hitler again.

Stop over thinking this. Trump ran against Hilary and the DNC, before that the RNC tried to take him down.

People infinitely more qualified to shape opinions than you already exhausted every option.

Moral of the story - pick a better candidate. Preferably one not under FBI investigation?

Sorry, not investigation - "security inquiry". Yeah.

Needs more victim blaming.

 

[Jaskalas]

I still can't understand how people who love the ACA and know they need it to stay alive would vote for people who are united in getting rid of it.

Trump speaks like he cares about people, but he doesn't. They cannot see that he promised everything to everyone, which itself is the core of his lies. You cannot care about people if you don't draw a line and make tough choices. As there are competing interests and you cannot please everyone. All these promises of how it'll be great, the best, but no details during the campaign. Instead of shrieking over how horrible he was the media should have pounded the issues he had no grasp on.

Now that he is in office, surrounding himself with the GOP faithful, their supposed ACA solution is one part trickle down, one part bootstraps, and mostly FYGM. A savings account for people with no money. A rebate smaller than the increased costs. And at its core a system of insurance too small to soak costs.

When this "solution" does NOT help voters, they will be begging us for a solution.
From now until victory, medicare for all should be our war cry.

 

[disappoint]

Right now multitudes see the democrats and the media, the truth itself as the enemy of those things.

You really believe the Democrats and the media speak the truth? Wow. No wonder Trump thinks he can get away with so many lies, he sees the other side gets away with it all the time.

 

[HomerJS]

You really believe the Democrats and the media speak the truth? Wow. No wonder Trump thinks he can get away with so many lies, he sees the other side gets away with it all the time.

Trump's sheer mass of lies make the Dems look almost pristine. Even crooked Hillary was outlied during the election 3:1 by Trump.

As to what to do Trump needs to be strung along for a while. The country needs to sink just to let Trump voters what they've done. Pence can take over when things are at a low point. Dems must push to take over at least one branch and that put an end to the right wing agenda.

 

[agent00f]

The battle is for hearts and minds. It isn't so important what happens to Trump in reality as it is what happens to him in people's minds. Right now he is worshiped by a lot of people as a father figure who is there protect them and make America great again. Right now multitudes see the democrats and the media, the truth itself as the enemy of those things. What needs to change is how they see Trump. Attacking him only improves his position, but by constantly focusing on the fact that he's a manipulator who uses people's patriotism to blind and trick them, to show how little respect he has for their intelligence, how willing he is to mislead them and harm them in the process, eventually that reality will start to snowball as more and more people see through his act. The psychology of why he does what he does needs to be focused on and exposed. That's where dems should focus their attention, in my opinion. Simply point out what he is doing ans why over and over again. Trump can play on people's psychology only as long as people don't see the game he plays. Once you know the rules the Emperor will stand necked.

This assumes first of all that Trump's brand of white nationalist is somehow novel, when really it was just forced out of style post-civil rights; he just had low enough moral standing to bring it back. Certainly plenty of americans believed in blaming everything on lower status minorities back in the day, given that's his popular slogan and parallel policies refer to. In a democracy people tend to get the government they deserve, and given the behavior of populist american conservatism it's hard to argue they don't deserve trump.

Of course this all assumes a realistic picture of the situation. If however the discussion is about "solutions", it's perhaps worthwhile to portray Trump as a manipulator, because if there's one thing that simpletons hate it's being taken advantage of, which is why all their rationalizations center around how they're actually the sophisticated thinkers.

This week trump is a master manipulator. Next week he's a man-brat. The week after that? He's hitler again.

Stop over thinking this. Trump ran against Hilary and the DNC, before that the RNC tried to take him down.

People infinitely more qualified to shape opinions than you already exhausted every option.

Moral of the story - pick a better candidate. Preferably one not under FBI investigation?

Sorry, not investigation - "security inquiry". Yeah.

Those aren't mutually exclusive descriptions, or maybe they are for said simpletons with minds that can't hold more than one attribute per person/object.

 

[agent00f]

You really believe the Democrats and the media speak the truth? Wow. No wonder Trump thinks he can get away with so many lies, he sees the other side gets away with it all the time.

Students of the enlightenment generally consider reality-based facts to be "true", which puts them at some advantage in that sense to more primitive minds define it as whatever their peers believe. For example, the biblical "truth" for some plurality of americans.

 

[Moonbeam]

You really believe the Democrats and the media speak the truth? Wow. No wonder Trump thinks he can get away with so many lies, he sees the other side gets away with it all the time.

You make a good point. I remember when I wrote that sentence searching for some word that conveyed a more rational or truer picture of reality and I used truth which isn't, as you say, quite right either. I do believe that the media and democrats Operate far more in a fact based universe that conservatives do. That has been a scientifically observed and proven fact about conservative and liberal brains.

 

[zinfamous]

This week trump is a master manipulator. Next week he's a man-brat. The week after that? He's hitler again.

Stop over thinking this. Trump ran against Hilary and the DNC, before that the RNC tried to take him down.

People infinitely more qualified to shape opinions than you already exhausted every option.

Moral of the story - pick a better candidate. Preferably one not under FBI investigation?

Sorry, not investigation - "security inquiry". Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I totally forgot, again, that this is all Hillary's fault.

 

[snarfbot]

lol, the frenzied dreams of delusional people

 

[disappoint]

You make a good point. I remember when I wrote that sentence searching for some word that conveyed a more rational or truer picture of reality and I used truth which isn't, as you say, quite right either. I do believe that the media and democrats Operate far more in a fact based universe that conservatives do. That has been a scientifically observed and proven fact about conservative and liberal brains.

Care to share what evidence you have for the claim that the media and Democrats operate far more in a fact based universe than conservatives?

It's not that I don't believe you. I tend to agree with you because that has been my observation as well...

But observation and reality are tricky things. The two don't always correlate even among the best and brightest among us. And so scientists adhere to a method to prevent fooling ourselves as much as we can, aptly named the scientific method. This method, among it's properties, one of which is requiring evidence to back up claims made that are not self evident.

You might also realize that while it may be easy to convince someone that already agrees with you, that will not be the case with someone who disagrees with you or has observed the situation differently than you have by claiming the evidence exists, but not presenting it, or claiming it's self evident when it isn't for them (even if it is for you or others).

 

[Moonbeam]

Care to share what evidence you have for the claim that the media and Democrats operate far more in a fact based universe than conservatives?

It's not that I don't believe you. I tend to agree with you because that has been my observation as well...

But observation and reality are tricky things. The two don't always correlate even among the best and brightest among us. And so scientists adhere to a method to prevent fooling ourselves as much as we can, aptly named the scientific method. This method, among it's properties, one of which is requiring evidence to back up claims made that are not self evident.

You might also realize that while it may be easy to convince someone that already agrees with you, that will not be the case with someone who disagrees with you or has observed the situation differently than you have by claiming the evidence exists, but not presenting it, or claiming it's self evident when it isn't for them (even if it is for you or others).

Actually the scientific evidence says it will be impossible to convince somebody who does not agree with me if they have a conservative brain because the conservative brain will reject evidence that runs counter to any altered reality they happen to live in. You can try googling 16 peer reviewed studies on conservative liberal brain differences though I think there are more of them now out. I have covered this extensively in the past.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Actually the scientific evidence says it will be impossible to convince somebody who does not agree with me if they have a conservative brain because the conservative brain will reject evidence that runs counter to any altered reality they happen to live in. You can try googling 16 peer reviewed studies on conservative liberal brain differences though I think there are more of them now out. I have covered this extensively in the past.

But I have been defined as a Conservative and therefore incapable of introspection and viewing more than one side of an issue. I have been told this by Liberals and so it must be true. The act of labeling by a superior mind means I am a lesser being because I don't accept their view.

Methinks there is something wrong with "conservative" or "liberal" as sometimes applied.

 

[Moonbeam]

But I have been defined as a Conservative and therefore incapable of introspection and viewing more than one side of an issue. I have been told this by Liberals and so it must be true. The act of labeling by a superior mind means I am a lesser being because I don't accept their view.

Methinks there is something wrong with "conservative" or "liberal" as sometimes applied.

That is not a conservative point of view. No conservative would feel inferior because no conservative would admit to such failings. Furthermore there is nuance in that post while conservatives think in black and white. Truth is some third way, a synthesis of paradoxical opposites that resolve at a higher level of consciousness. Labels are only as good as the grain of resolution possible to the labeler. Mostly it's just projection.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That is not a conservative point of view. No conservative would feel inferior because no conservative would admit to such failings. Furthermore there is nuance in that post while conservatives think in black and white. Truth is some third way, a synthesis of paradoxical opposites that resolve at a higher level of consciousness. Labels are only as good as the grain of resolution possible to the labeler. Mostly it's just projection.

There is a tendency in the human species to form associations based on perceived like traits. History shows that "we" are superior to "them", be it ideology, race, religion (or lack thereof) and "conservative" vs "liberal" arises. I am not "we" and so I am "them", a resolution of 0 and 1, black and white as you say. To paraphrase Gregory Peck as Ahab, "all things are as a pasteboard mask, something behind them has plagued mankind from the dawn of history. It mocks us, mauls us, not killing us outright but letting us live on with half a heart and half a lung. It is the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate".

I sympathise with Ahab's view. We wear our masks and hide behind them and at times do purposeful harm because we can.

 

[agent00f]

Watch out we got some Real philosophers over here, ready to drop that knowledge on an unsuspecting academic field. Who knew that superiority doesn't really exist, or how mirrors can be real if our eyes aren't real.

Care to share what evidence you have for the claim that the media and Democrats operate far more in a fact based universe than conservatives?

It's not that I don't believe you. I tend to agree with you because that has been my observation as well...

But observation and reality are tricky things. The two don't always correlate even among the best and brightest among us. And so scientists adhere to a method to prevent fooling ourselves as much as we can, aptly named the scientific method. This method, among it's properties, one of which is requiring evidence to back up claims made that are not self evident.

You might also realize that while it may be easy to convince someone that already agrees with you, that will not be the case with someone who disagrees with you or has observed the situation differently than you have by claiming the evidence exists, but not presenting it, or claiming it's self evident when it isn't for them (even if it is for you or others).

Suffice to say when among actual scientists only a few percent identify as republican/conservative, and that was well before trump causing double digit inversions in the white college/non-college vote.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Watch out we got some Real philosophers over here, ready to drop that knowledge on an unsuspecting academic field. Who knew that superiority doesn't really exist, or how mirrors can be real if our eyes aren't real.



Suffice to say when among actual scientists only a few percent identify as republican/conservative, and that was well before trump causing double digit inversions in the white college/non-college vote.

People are superior as individuals in certain things. Never said otherwise, but having an "ism" does not make you or me better. If you excel in a field it is because your exposure to subject matter and a genetic predisposition allowed it to be. Your attempt at dismissal does not change these facts, unless you claim special knowledge only known to yourself.

Why don't you list all the reasons you are "superior" in objective terms and how you have access to the facts about other that back your statements? Otherwise you are being quite like Trump, "oh he did this or he is that" and not a shred of supporting objective evidence.

We await your wisdom.

 

[agent00f]

People are superior as individuals in certain things. Never said otherwise, but having an "ism" does not make you or me better. If you excel in a field it is because your exposure to subject matter and a genetic predisposition allowed it to be. Your attempt at dismissal does not change these facts, unless you claim special knowledge only known to yourself.

Why don't you list all the reasons you are "superior" in objective terms and how you have access to the facts about other that back your statements? Otherwise you are being quite like Trump, "oh he did this or he is that" and not a shred of supporting objective evidence.

We await your wisdom.

It's trivially evident that students of the enlightenment, in western liberalism and the scientific revolution are superior in just about every way to those of american conservatism. There's hardly any coincidence each respective group is reliably on their side of history. But I suppose half the country has a real hard time figuring this so it's only natural that below-average minds consider this privileged information.

 

[bshole]

It's trivially evident that students of the enlightenment, in western liberalism and the scientific revolution are superior in just about every way to those of american conservatism. There's hardly any coincidence each respective group is reliably on their side of history. But I suppose half the country has a real hard time figuring this so it's only natural that below-average minds consider this privileged information.

There are some that argue that man would have been better off without weaponry that could cause a nuclear winter, an uncontrollable bacterial pandemic, etc. By far the most probable result of the scientific method will be an extinction level event (for humans and most living organisms) in the next 1000 years.

Science has done many great things for humanity but they also provided the means for self-immolation. The problem is that man's genetic code has programmed him in such a way that the chances of self-immolation over time are about 100%.

The tribalism is rampant in every human. Every human appears to hate at least one other group of humans, it is in his DNA.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Trump offered really simple solutions to really complex problems. Common people like simple solutions. They want simple solutions to work, because they can understand the simple solution.

Immigration a problem? Build a wall!
Terrorists scare you? Bomb them!
Why didn't someone think of this before?

To bad simple solutions rarely ever work for complex problems.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There are some that argue that man would have been better off without weaponry that could cause a nuclear winter, an uncontrollable bacterial pandemic, etc. By far the most probable result of the scientific method will be an extinction level event (for humans and most living organisms) in the next 1000 years.

Science has done many great things for humanity but they also provided the means for self-immolation. The problem is that man's genetic code has programmed him in such a way that the chances of self-immolation over time are about 100%.

The tribalism is rampant in every human. Every human appears to hate at least one other group of humans, it is in his DNA.

It's interesting to me at least to speculate on Fermi's Paradox in a similar context. We haven't seen signs of aliens and there are any number of reasons that may be, from we are the only technological civilization to The Great Filter.

Any space faring civilization would have one evolutionary imperative common with all others, an innate drive to perpetuate the species. The other constant would be thermodynamics. All life must involve the consumption of resources to maintain, grow and reproduce. Eventually a tension sets in where resources, be they material or energy, become limited and we have set the stage for evolution. One must outcompete for limited resources. Those best adapted survive and this holds for herbivores, predators, plants, all things which have environmental constraints.

It is therefore likely that any alien mentality is similar in some ways to ourselves and therefore possible that competition within the species results as well such as in humans. Unfortunately we are so clever in manipulating the environment and learning about the physical world that our tendencies for elimination of others of our species becomes easier over time.

If we stop for a moment and look at what it would take to travel between stars or erect a structure of such immensity that we can actually detect it in the relatively near future, the level science involve must be vastly ahead of our own.

The sad thing is that self destruction is far simpler to achieve than visiting us.

Maybe there is no one who can visit because they eliminate themselves deliberately or by carelessness.

 

[Moonbeam]

People are superior as individuals in certain things. Never said otherwise, but having an "ism" does not make you or me better. If you excel in a field it is because your exposure to subject matter and a genetic predisposition allowed it to be. Your attempt at dismissal does not change these facts, unless you claim special knowledge only known to yourself.

Why don't you list all the reasons you are "superior" in objective terms and how you have access to the facts about other that back your statements? Otherwise you are being quite like Trump, "oh he did this or he is that" and not a shred of supporting objective evidence.

We await your wisdom.

It's trivially evident that students of the enlightenment, in western liberalism and the scientific revolution are superior in just about every way to those of american conservatism. There's hardly any coincidence each respective group is reliably on their side of history. But I suppose half the country has a real hard time figuring this so it's only natural that below-average minds consider this privileged information.

Apparently it is self evident to the superior they are superior having been gifted and all with the ability to see it. But we see what we assume, we see what we believe so if you think you are superior you will see yourself that way.

I look at this differently. Conservatives are more emotionally biased, allow ego to influence their critical thinking and rationalize away data that is causes anxiety. They are superior in this way. They are less anxious and more at home in a tight organized group of like minded thinkers, say in a church or an authoritarian state, they find themselves emotionally happier than liberals would. So all you need to do if you are a conservative is change what superior means.

If you are a liberal, or have a questioning mind, you will quickly see that good and evil are words that can mean anything and if you extend superior to the good, then you can be superior depending on what you call the good.

But all this nonsense about superior isms is just silliness. We concern ourselves with words like that because we do not see that we all are suffering from an unconscious inferiority complex. We hate ourselves and so our superiority index becomes very important to us, those of us who have ego concerns. It's like having a sore toe that you leave in the middle of the aisle and everybody walking by steps on. We are looking to be offended so any comparison to others feels like a slight to out ego. We are carrying that around
leaving it in the aisle and screaming when it is inevitably stepped on.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's interesting to me at least to speculate on Fermi's Paradox in a similar context. We haven't seen signs of aliens and there are any number of reasons that may be, from we are the only technological civilization to The Great Filter.

Any space faring civilization would have one evolutionary imperative common with all others, an innate drive to perpetuate the species. The other constant would be thermodynamics. All life must involve the consumption of resources to maintain, grow and reproduce. Eventually a tension sets in where resources, be they material or energy, become limited and we have set the stage for evolution. One must outcompete for limited resources. Those best adapted survive and this holds for herbivores, predators, plants, all things which have environmental constraints.

It is therefore likely that any alien mentality is similar in some ways to ourselves and therefore possible that competition within the species results as well such as in humans. Unfortunately we are so clever in manipulating the environment and learning about the physical world that our tendencies for elimination of others of our species becomes easier over time.

If we stop for a moment and look at what it would take to travel between stars or erect a structure of such immensity that we can actually detect it in the relatively near future, the level science involve must be vastly ahead of our own.

The sad thing is that self destruction is far simpler to achieve than visiting us.

Maybe there is no one who can visit because they eliminate themselves deliberately or by carelessness.

What I wonder is if all thinking inevitably leads to abstract concepts that create notions like good and evil, superior and inferior and the need to, as Nomad says, :Must eliminate evil.!"

I find that wherever I go that's where I am so what would be the point of going to the stars. I am there already.

Are we there yet?