We owe oldest Americans an apology

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Amused by the wholesale blame placed upon us, I said: "Oh please. I'll feel like making an apology when they issue ten apologies first for all the bullshit war games they played for most of their lives. It's the very pinnacle of hypocrisy to pin the world being screwy on us now."

Do you see it now? We all get blamed for a bunch of bankers and politicians getting loose with credit, but the Greatest Generation bears no blame for the screwups of the politicians of their time? I daresay a world war or two, plus a couple of regional conflicts, the results of which still affect us all today, is a little bit worse than a credit market panic.

You are comparing a world war with the current credit problems ?

If you don't think that war isn't caused by bullshit - WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Terran-Zerg - you're probably too caught up with your heart in your throat to admit that none of it should have happened to begin with. This isn't to say that under my dominion the world would be free from conflict and violence would be a thing of the past, but war doesn't flare up spontaneously and randomly. Decisions are made by people to wage them.

You still don't get how things like world wars happen . People decide to wage them , but those people are often not the ones who fight in them. You compare a video game with the world wars ? What are you 12 ?

This part I can't be nice about: I think you do your family a far greater insult than I could ever dish out by throwing them into this discussion as if they were a trump card. Again, nobody on the Internet knows who your family was, but apparently we're all to assume they died in the most honourable of ways, having no control at all over what occurred that led to that event. Further, this small sampling of humanity apparently serves as the reason none of that generation can now be criticized.

You don't insult just my family. But the families of everyone that has lost someone in a war that was defending their country. It doesn't matter if you know the people or not. The fact is they went when asked. I suppose you think the soldiers in Iraq are all bullshit too because you don't know them personally. I'm sure they all want to be away from their families . By your logic it is their own fault if they die in war.

Yeah, sorry, but that's not going to fly. Not with me, anyways, and hopefully not with others my age who realize that we're all only going to get better if we stop glamourizing the follies of the past. None of it should ever have happened to begin with.

Thankfully you are not representative of the population.

Eh, looks like I guessed wrong and you're just dumb. Let me know how that piece of land you've staked out in The Land Of Moral Superiority & Indignation works out for you. I might have to start scrounging around for relatives of mine who died in _____ War (I'm thinking Boer) so I can move in next door. I will bake you cupcakes!

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: TallBill

No offense, but I don't want or need their thanks. You don't get commended for suiting up as a firefighter when it's you who originally sparked the blaze.

firefighters : sparking blaze :: soldiers : starting wars

I know a few firefighters and none of them start fires. I also know a LOT of soldiers, and not a single one of them has been a part of a major military strategy/policy.

At the end of the day each voter of a nation carries the responsibility for his/her nations' actions. Before men were draftees, they were voters. What happened on their watch is a reflection of their decisions each of those people made - which is exactly how the logic of blaming the current generation for the current mess has been made.

Hahaha, ok.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Amused by the wholesale blame placed upon us, I said: "Oh please. I'll feel like making an apology when they issue ten apologies first for all the bullshit war games they played for most of their lives. It's the very pinnacle of hypocrisy to pin the world being screwy on us now."

Do you see it now? We all get blamed for a bunch of bankers and politicians getting loose with credit, but the Greatest Generation bears no blame for the screwups of the politicians of their time? I daresay a world war or two, plus a couple of regional conflicts, the results of which still affect us all today, is a little bit worse than a credit market panic.

You are comparing a world war with the current credit problems ?

While I think this comment was foolish:

Originally posted by: yllus
No offense, but I don't want or need their thanks. You don't get commended for suiting up as a firefighter when it's you who originally sparked the blaze.

I think the point that yllus was trying to make was that the previous generation was not infallible and the powers that be at that time caused plenty of problems that even today's generation is still working to repair. This really has nothing to do with the soldiers who died in battle, but more to do with the leaders that waged those battles and the people who supported those leaders.

Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

 

[us3rnotfound]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Amused by the wholesale blame placed upon us, I said: "Oh please. I'll feel like making an apology when they issue ten apologies first for all the bullshit war games they played for most of their lives. It's the very pinnacle of hypocrisy to pin the world being screwy on us now."

Do you see it now? We all get blamed for a bunch of bankers and politicians getting loose with credit, but the Greatest Generation bears no blame for the screwups of the politicians of their time? I daresay a world war or two, plus a couple of regional conflicts, the results of which still affect us all today, is a little bit worse than a credit market panic.

You are comparing a world war with the current credit problems ?

While I think this comment was foolish:

Originally posted by: yllus
No offense, but I don't want or need their thanks. You don't get commended for suiting up as a firefighter when it's you who originally sparked the blaze.

I think the point that yllus was trying to make was that the previous generation was not infallible and the powers that be at that time caused plenty of problems that even today's generation is still working to repair. This really has nothing to do with the soldiers who died in battle, but more to do with the leaders that waged those battles and the people who supported those leaders.

Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

QFT

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

So apparently they would get what I'm saying and it's only you who wouldn't? *golf clap*

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

So apparently they would get what I'm saying and it's only you who wouldn't? *golf clap*

No they would probably be disgusted that what they did was not appreciated.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Ummm... if you were old enough to serve in WWII, you've probably been retired and collecting social security for over 15 years at this point.

Once you retire, you shouldn't have your money in stocks anymore since you need that money to live off of! If they are still invested in stocks in their 80's, they are either really greedy or not very bright. Either way, it's not our fault that they lost half of it.

People are living a lot longer now.. a fair amount of assets need to continue to grow in order to ensure you've got enough to cover yourself in case you die later rather than sooner.

As far as Boomers and SS go.. why on earth would we vote to dismantle the system that we've been forced to pay into for decades just as we're reaching the age that we'll need it?
SS was meant to be part of a three legged stool, a company pension, personal savings and investments and SS.

Well, the company pension went bye,bye over the course of my working life, the economic melt down is putting a serious dent in 403 investments/earnings.. yeah let's decimate SS
next.. not.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

So apparently they would get what I'm saying and it's only you who wouldn't? *golf clap*

No they would probably be disgusted that what they did was not appreciated.

I think that considering how thick-skulled you seem to be, you're not qualified to make assumptions on what these much wiser individuals might say or think. Stick to issuing outbursts of moral outrage on the Internet.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

So apparently they would get what I'm saying and it's only you who wouldn't? *golf clap*

No they would probably be disgusted that what they did was not appreciated.

I think that considering how thick-skulled you seem to be, you're not qualified to make assumptions on what these much wiser individuals might say or think. Stick to issuing outbursts of moral outrage on the Internet.

And you are qualified ? Someone who thinks that when a soldier dies in a war it is his own fault because he should have voted differently ?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus


And a very small percentage of the population made the decisions that landed us in the current mess, which is about a thousandth as terrible as the ones the Greatest Generation stirred up. Why am I supposed to feel all apologetic?

Let me clue you in on something: I don't know who or what your father and uncles were or did. You brought them up - out of nowhere. For all I know your father was a war criminal who ordered his troops to firebomb civilians in Vietnam. The hell is the relevance of that, how was I supposed to have known what your family did in any of those wars, and why do you think it proves any sort of point?

You really don't get it ? You are serious ?
You are trying to blame an entire generation for something a few people did.

I brought up my family because of your insulting tone towards people that died to protect this country. The people that gave their lives deserve better than to be thought of as 'bullshit war games' . Your lack of respect for them is disgusting.

That's because his grandfather was living in a mud hut when ours were defending the world from facism.

 

[irishScott]

Yes, they're being asked to soldier on. Just like everyone else. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't stop when you retire. Retirement is not a right. It's a privilege only earned by being savvy enough to make enough money and keep up with the times, no matter how much you may deserve it as a person.

Personally I intend to find a job I love and never stop.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Yes, they're being asked to soldier on. Just like everyone else. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't stop when you retire. Retirement is not a right. It's a privilege only earned by being savvy enough to make enough money and keep up with the times, no matter how much you may deserve it as a person.

Personally I intend to find a job I love and never stop.

What makes you think older workers aren't already hanging onto their jobs far longer than past generations ? SS has been quietly, gradually increasing the age at which you can expect to retire and collect full benefits. I expect to most likely still be working at age 70. Of course, younger workers aren't going to like that solution either.. if we keep working there's less work
for the up and coming generation of workers.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: sash1
sorry oldsmoboat

:laugh:

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: MrChad


Time has led us to view the "Greatest Generation" through a rose-colored lens. While they did endure tremendous hardships and accomplish great things, I think it's naive to say that they handed us a spotless silver platter that we ruined single handedly.

I don't think you would find many from that generation who think they did not make their share of mistakes. I can't think of anyone I have spoken to in that age group that thinks the current economy is the younger generations fault. They generally say it is the greedy companies.

So apparently they would get what I'm saying and it's only you who wouldn't? *golf clap*

No they would probably be disgusted that what they did was not appreciated.

I think that considering how thick-skulled you seem to be, you're not qualified to make assumptions on what these much wiser individuals might say or think. Stick to issuing outbursts of moral outrage on the Internet.

And you are qualified ? Someone who thinks that when a soldier dies in a war it is his own fault because he should have voted differently ?

I think it's just your father's and uncles' fault, since they're the ones you keep bringing up. I mean, I did clearly blame foot soldiers specifically, and I knew that your family was exactly that. But once you did elaborate, boy howdy, look at how high and mighty you got when I didn't immediately abandon what I was saying, start fall to my knees and begin to weep in their honour!

Unfortunately an appeal to emotion is never anything more than a fallacy - I don't care how many bodies of dead family members you want to trot out to complete strangers to attempt to make it.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Modelworks
You really don't get it ? You are serious ?
You are trying to blame an entire generation for something a few people did.

I brought up my family because of your insulting tone towards people that died to protect this country. The people that gave their lives deserve better than to be thought of as 'bullshit war games' . Your lack of respect for them is disgusting.

That's because his grandfather was living in a mud hut when ours were defending the world from facism.

Ah, racism, the ultimate card to play when you want to rile someone up but don't have the brains to put together a real argument.

Fortunately, you are mistaken. My grandfather was a man of great repute who served as a lawyer for a Nazi-aligned nation. We're more upset at him being a lawyer than for working with the Nazis.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: irishScott
Yes, they're being asked to soldier on. Just like everyone else. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't stop when you retire. Retirement is not a right. It's a privilege only earned by being savvy enough to make enough money and keep up with the times, no matter how much you may deserve it as a person.

Personally I intend to find a job I love and never stop.

What makes you think older workers aren't already hanging onto their jobs far longer than past generations ? SS has been quietly, gradually increasing the age at which you can expect to retire and collect full benefits. I expect to most likely still be working at age 70. Of course, younger workers aren't going to like that solution either.. if we keep working there's less work
for the up and coming generation of workers.

Very True.
We have several older workers in businesses where I live. I know there are two at the grocery store that bag groceries, are probably in the late 70's.
Then there is a guy at the post office that everyone picks on , lovingly not mean, that is 78 says he will retire when he is dead. Also don't forget the walmart greeters in a lot of stores are retired.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: irishScott
Yes, they're being asked to soldier on. Just like everyone else. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't stop when you retire. Retirement is not a right. It's a privilege only earned by being savvy enough to make enough money and keep up with the times, no matter how much you may deserve it as a person.

Personally I intend to find a job I love and never stop.

What makes you think older workers aren't already hanging onto their jobs far longer than past generations ? SS has been quietly, gradually increasing the age at which you can expect to retire and collect full benefits. I expect to most likely still be working at age 70. Of course, younger workers aren't going to like that solution either.. if we keep working there's less work
for the up and coming generation of workers.

Very True.
We have several older workers in businesses where I live. I know there are two at the grocery store that bag groceries, are probably in the late 70's.
Then there is a guy at the post office that everyone picks on , lovingly not mean, that is 78 says he will retire when he is dead. Also don't forget the walmart greeters in a lot of stores are retired.

I recently saw an article someplace that says that it is becoming increasingly difficult for teenagers to find part time and/or summer jobs because many of those jobs are going to older workers who are looking to supplement their SS checks and to stay active.

The three legged stool.. the company pension leg of the stool is now pretty much gone for workers in their 50's, coupled with the stock meltdown means that a lot of boomers will be working well into their 70's just to live decently.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
I recently saw an article someplace that says that it is becoming increasingly difficult for teenagers to find part time and/or summer jobs because many of those jobs are going to older workers who are looking to supplement their SS checks and to stay active.

And it will only get worse as Baby Boomers age. It's my non-professional opinion that the Baby Boomers were the first generation to really define themselves by their jobs. They're not going to let go easily, as it will be like giving up their identity. That, coupled with the economic troubles, will make them much more likely to retire late, or not at all.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Fuck that. I'm 29 years old and had nothing to do with any of this. It's the baby boomers who fucked us all over with their greed.

I've never taken a loan in my entire fricking life. I aint apologizing for shit.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: irishScott
Yes, they're being asked to soldier on. Just like everyone else. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't stop when you retire. Retirement is not a right. It's a privilege only earned by being savvy enough to make enough money and keep up with the times, no matter how much you may deserve it as a person.

Personally I intend to find a job I love and never stop.

What makes you think older workers aren't already hanging onto their jobs far longer than past generations ? SS has been quietly, gradually increasing the age at which you can expect to retire and collect full benefits. I expect to most likely still be working at age 70. Of course, younger workers aren't going to like that solution either.. if we keep working there's less work
for the up and coming generation of workers.

Nothing. The article just makes it sound like everyone from said generations is retiring without forethought (because old people are obviously incapable of this :roll🙂 and and getting shockingly screwed over for it. It's that minority that my comment was directed at.

 

[finite automaton]

Disagree

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: yllus

Ah, racism, the ultimate card to play when you want to rile someone up but don't have the brains to put together a real argument.

Fortunately, you are mistaken. My grandfather was a man of great repute who served as a lawyer for a Nazi-aligned nation. We're more upset at him being a lawyer than for working with the Nazis.

Racism? What's this have to do with race? More like mock Xenophobia to counter your ignorant ageism. Of course now that you've come clean about your tolerance of your grandfathers Nazi views it kind of makes sense why you'd mock those who fought against those whom your grandfather supported.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Fuck that. I'm 29 years old and had nothing to do with any of this. It's the baby boomers who fucked us all over with their greed.

I've never taken a loan in my entire fricking life. I aint apologizing for shit.

Guess what ? there are a LOT of baby boomers who didn't act to create this mess as well.
We drive a modest paid for car, rent a house and avoid credit card/ loan debt. Pension from my company? I won't be getting one, 403B investments ? tanked. I made my current 403B investment mix choices based on 15 yr time line.. assuming this current mess lasts another 10 yrs before we recover I and others like me are in a world of hurt.