We have a deal!! Back to life as normal...

[rchiu]

This is no deal. It's a capitulation on the part of the Dems.

I may be short-sighted in my assessment on this issue, but it simply disgusts me how the repubs held the debt ceiling increase hostage and how the Dems caved in on practically all of the repubs demands....well, besides what the Tea Party nutjobs were demanding.

Super Committee? What a slick way to kick the can down the road where the repubs will get another chance to force the Dems to wimp out again.

Triggers? I've not seen or heard a thing about a trigger that would kick in increasing revenues via forcing the rich to suffer like the Dems are forcing the middle class and the poor to suffer with this new "deal". Please tell me I'm wrong in this regard.

Maybe it's time to have the Dems create a sub-party as nutty as the Tea Party because like it or not, those folks that came out of the Tea Party loonie bin seem to have held a gun to the head of the Dems long enough for the Dems to behave like middle of the road repubs.

Heh, well what do you expect? A fight to cut debt/spending is inherently disadvantageous for democrats and their grand vision of more social programs and safety net. Next time when America is in a fight with too much money to spend and trying to find programs to spend on, maybe you Dems will get what you wish for.

Not that I don't sympathize with the middle class and the poor, but America is built on Capitalism, and unfortunately when things don't go right, it's the the poor and middle class who suffers first. Is that right? Maybe not, but that's part of the deal if you accept capitalism and all the perks. The worst thing that can happen is for those who only care about their idealism and disregard the reality and the problem at hand.

 

[Acanthus]

No tax increases on the rich.

This is not what the American people wanted.

2012 should be interesting with all of these false shitstorms being created to pander to the rich as usual.

Epic failure by the Dems.

 

[ProfJohn]

This whole charade has accomplished nothing aside from undermining business and investor confidence and pricing more political risk in our future interest costs.

So now you agree with the fact that Obama has to go since he is the biggest source of uncertainty in the country?

Businesses are more worried about Obamacare and cap & trade than this little bump in the road.

 

[trenchfoot]

Heh, well what do you expect? A fight to cut debt/spending is inherently disadvantageous for democrats and their grand vision of more social programs and safety net. Next time when America is in a fight with too much money to spend and trying to find programs to spend on, maybe you Dems will get what you wish for.

Not that I don't sympathize with the middle class and the poor, but America is built on Capitalism, and unfortunately when things don't go right, it's the the poor and middle class who suffers first. Is that right? Maybe not, but that's part of the deal if you accept capitalism and all the perks. The worst thing that can happen is for those who only care about their idealism and disregard the reality and the problem at hand.

A bit presumptuous on your part...I'm an independent. It affords me the luxury of criticizing both parties with equal contempt.

It just so happens that I find the repubs so much more disingenuous and dishonest than the *for now* woosie Dems.

 

[UberNeuman]

All this drama for nothing...

yes.

/really?

 

[dmcowen674]

No tax increases on the rich.

This is not what the American people wanted.

2012 should be interesting with all of these false shitstorms being created to pander to the rich as usual.

Epic failure by the Dems.

There isn't anyone saying no tax increase on the rich other than the rich.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

No tax increases on the rich.

This is not what the American people wanted.

2012 should be interesting with all of these false shitstorms being created to pander to the rich as usual.

Epic failure by the Dems.

FAIL by the R's. This increase was WAY to much. It should have been a small increase just to get by instead of a BIG one with a supposed promise of future budget "cuts". It's a sham and has little/no teeth.

 

[a777pilot]

There isn't anyone saying no tax increase on the rich other than the rich.

I'm far from rich and I don't want to tax the rich. Especially with an income tax.

 

[HendrixFan]

Businesses are more worried about Obamacare and cap & trade than this little bump in the road.

Yes, businesses have seen this whole debt limit thing as a bump in the road. You are, as always, so astute.

 

[ProfJohn]

Details from the Speakers office.
http://global.nationalreview.com/dest/2011/07/31/3_7_31_11_debt_framework_boehner.pdf

Not the plan, but an outline.

 

[ProfJohn]

Yes, businesses have seen this whole debt limit thing as a bump in the road. You are, as always, so astute.

In case you are not aware debt increases have always been filled with tons of drama. As Fern keeps trying to point out we once went 5 months without raising the limit.

No one ever expected us to default nor raise the limit. It was just about how much and for how long and how it would be paid for.

The news about our weak GDP is FAR more important that this mess. This crisis is solved, the overall problem without economy is FAR from solved and no one seems to have an idea about what to do either.

 

[Naeeldar]

I disagree. Businesses, have a lot of uncertainty as it's hashed out where the cuts are going to go. If government is one of your customers, are you going to invest in capacity (hiring) now if the demand may be cut come Thanksgiving? If people run out of unemployment benefits, the demand for consumer goods will tank as well. It's like a pilot in a plane that is about to stall makes an announcement that his number one priority is saving money on fuel. Wouldn't make me too confident.

Wow. Im just curious where does the money come from to fund all your entitlement programs?

I really have a hard time beleiveing people like you exist outside ofthe internet. I know people have been beggings for you to announce what you do for a living... but now i'm curious what do you do?

 

[Naeeldar]

This is no deal. It's a capitulation on the part of the Dems.

I may be short-sighted in my assessment on this issue, but it simply disgusts me how the repubs held the debt ceiling increase hostage and how the Dems caved in on practically all of the repubs demands....well, besides what the Tea Party nutjobs were demanding.

Super Committee? What a slick way to kick the can down the road where the repubs will get another chance to force the Dems to wimp out again.

Triggers? I've not seen or heard a thing about a trigger that would kick in increasing revenues via forcing the rich to suffer like the Dems are forcing the middle class and the poor to suffer with this new "deal". Please tell me I'm wrong in this regard.

Maybe it's time to have the Dems create a sub-party as nutty as the Tea Party because like it or not, those folks that came out of the Tea Party loonie bin seem to have held a gun to the head of the Dems long enough for the Dems to behave like middle of the road repubs.

The sub party for the dems is there it just doesn't have a name but it's you hardcore liberals. I'm dead center in middle class and there is no way in hell I want any of these liberals plans to go into effect. try it's only hurting those who make sub 50k.

 

[umbrella39]

... the deal, which includes no increases in taxes or revenue ...

Well imagine that. Start some wars, cut taxes, stomp your feet and hold your breath when the mere mention of the "paying for it" part comes around. Rinse, wash, repeat. The GOP is clearly the party of the uber rich and fuck everyone else.

 

[Elias824]

I like the section called Winners and Losers, like this is a football game to be won by the best team...

 

[Naeeldar]

... the deal, which includes no increases in taxes or revenue ...

Well imagine that. Start some wars, cut taxes, stomp your feet and hold your breath when the mere mention of the "paying for it" part comes around. Rinse, wash, repeat. The GOP is clearly the party of the uber rich and fuck everyone else.

I'm so tired of this war bullshit. If we go back to 9/11. EVERYBODY voted to go to Afganisitan and then later Iraq. Public opinion was also being those decisions. Fast forward 10 years and we have a bunch of people blaming wars on a single party. It's goo thing we don't live in a true democracy with the short term memory the public has.

 

[HendrixFan]

In case you are not aware debt increases have always been filled with tons of drama. As Fern keeps trying to point out we once went 5 months without raising the limit.

Not always, just when it is politically opportune is it filled with drama. We have gone around 5 months this time around too, and we have shifted money around to meet obligations. The Aug 2nd "deadline" is when the obligations can no longer be met through shifting money around.

The difference this time? We are running much larger deficits than any time before, our revenues are near the lowest they have been in ages, and the economy is as bad as it has been in 50 years easily. Interest rates have already been pushed to near zero, allowing us to finance the debt at a cheaper rate, but it also makes it tough to impossible to respond to inflation kicking in. Don't forget we have been pumping tons of new money into the economy trying to inflate our way out of falling home prices and trying to offset other deflationary threats. Once inflation kicks into high gear, you raise interest rates to keep it in check. With our deficit and debt at the levels they are now, you don't know how you can afford the higher rates.

It is foolish to pretend that this debt ceiling debate comes at a time even remotely similar to previous instances.

The news about our weak GDP is FAR more important that this mess. This crisis is solved, the overall problem without economy is FAR from solved and no one seems to have an idea about what to do either.

As I just explained, it is tied in very heavily. We have painted ourselves into a corner with the debt, limiting or weakening the tools at our disposal to get out of the mess.

The biggest reason that businesses fear what they have been witnessing? Both parties have no desire to fix the problem. That has become clear, and given the fragility of the economy right now that is a major issue.

 

[HendrixFan]

Wow. Im just curious where does the money come from to fund all your entitlement programs?

I really have a hard time beleiveing people like you exist outside ofthe internet. I know people have been beggings for you to announce what you do for a living... but now i'm curious what do you do?

IIRC correctly from a thread a LOOOONG time ago, he is in finance and makes tons of money.

Edit:http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=22387218&postcount=10

 

[bfdd]

So in 20 years when I watch SNL and we're talking about our 100 trillion dollar debt I'll think back to a couple weeks ago when I watched an early 90s SNL and we were in a similar situation and talking about our 3 trillion dollar debt.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Not even close.

If Obama got what HE wanted we'd have more spending and more taxes.

It is the Tea Party that is moving the country to the right.

Obama wasnt advocating more spending as part of this deal, where do you get this stuff?

And the Tea Party is not a right wing party.

They want entitlements AND low taxes, which sadly, are mutually exclusive, nor would they fall under the traditional banner fo small government.

 

[senseamp]

So now you agree with the fact that Obama has to go since he is the biggest source of uncertainty in the country?

Businesses are more worried about Obamacare and cap & trade than this little bump in the road.

GOP has to go for creating this uncertainty over the debt ceiling. They cannot be trusted to govern anymore. Cap and trade and Obamacare are similar to systems practiced in Germany which is kicking our ass in trade and unemployment.

 

[senseamp]

Wow. Im just curious where does the money come from to fund all your entitlement programs?

Until the economy picks up, we'll just have to pay for the safety net programs for the unemployed.

I really have a hard time beleiveing people like you exist outside ofthe internet. I know people have been beggings for you to announce what you do for a living... but now i'm curious what do you do?

My handle is a hint.

 

[catilley1092]

Even if this drama is over for now, which I'm sure it will be, it will be short lived. Steep cuts in government spending along with SOME form of new revenue (perhaps the return of tariffs on imported goods) will need to take place, and soon.

Why is it that Congress can't cut a 10 year deal, meaning that we won't see this kind of debate for that period of time (like the NFL recently did)? Rather than simply agree that they'll cut spending over a 10 year period?

That would be far more productive, and would prove to the world that America is serious about this. Really, this package is just a Band-Aid solution, major surgery is needed, badly.

But congrats on Congress for keeping our retirement/disability checks flowing. This money does flow back into the economy.

Cat

 

[pcgeek11]

I beg to differ. We DO need tax cuts at this time. But ONLY for the middle class and the poor.

The repubs keep mouthing off about the need for cutting taxes. Well, here's their chance to do something for the middle class and the poor for once.

The poor do not pay any taxes as is. How can you reduce zero...?

 

[senseamp]

The poor do not pay any taxes as is. How can you reduce zero...?

They pay payroll taxes, so cut those.