We have a deal!! Back to life as normal...

[ProfJohn]

GOP has to go for creating this uncertainty over the debt ceiling. They cannot be trusted to govern anymore. Cap and trade and Obamacare are similar to systems practiced in Germany which is kicking our ass in trade and unemployment.

The same Germany where people earn 33% less per year than the US?

The same Germany whose LOWEST unemployment rate for the last decade was 7+%??

The same Germany that has a shrinking middle class as well?

I suggest you look deeper before you start trying to imitate another country. You think Americans are willing to give up a third of their income and suffer long term unemployment in return for free healthcare?

 

[senseamp]

The same Germany where people earn 33% less per year than the US?

The same Germany whose LOWEST unemployment rate for the last decade was 7+%??

The same Germany that has a shrinking middle class as well?

I suggest you look deeper before you start trying to imitate another country. You think Americans are willing to give up a third of their income and suffer long term unemployment in return for free healthcare?

Why would I want to do that if I can give up 40% of my income AND get no free health care in return by moving to a Republican state?

 

[Acanthus]

The same Germany where people earn 33% less per year than the US?

The same Germany whose LOWEST unemployment rate for the last decade was 7+%??

The same Germany that has a shrinking middle class as well?

I suggest you look deeper before you start trying to imitate another country. You think Americans are willing to give up a third of their income and suffer long term unemployment in return for free healthcare?

33% less per year? Gross or Net? Average or Median?

Are their unemployment stats padded the way ours are? What happens if we measure them the same way?

What is the gini index of Germany?

*warning, it's a trap, i know all of these answers already*

 

[senseamp]

I must say, the production value of this spectacle has been very good. Lots of suspense, lots of excitement, cliffhanger ending. For something that is basically a PR stunt for parties to take credit for sh!t we are going to do anyways, maybe in 10 years, I think it's been great entertainment.

 

[Generator]

Status quo continues, as was expected. The austerity is delayed and the economy continues to languish. Cry baby businesses complain about Obama never minding the fact that the government is their biggest client.

It was a good theatre though, these faux deadlines help us all discover the reason why the pain will come. Unfortunately the majority of this country doesn't have the courage for the austerity. Republican or Democrat. Obama has another 2 trillion to play with? See you in Syria next Sunday citizen!

ENGORGE THE BEAST!!

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Democrats and Obama had no credible plan and it is very apparent now. They didn't have one 2 years ago when they had full control of the House and the Senate and they didn't have one today.

Marco Rubio pretty much lays the truth out while Kerry delivers a weak defense for Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2MAmleI67s

 

[umbrella39]

I'm so tired of this war bullshit. If we go back to 9/11. EVERYBODY voted to go to Afganisitan and then later Iraq. Public opinion was also being those decisions. Fast forward 10 years and we have a bunch of people blaming wars on a single party. It's goo thing we don't live in a true democracy with the short term memory the public has.

WTF cares about placing blame for the wars, that is moot. Cutting taxes and 10 years later still not expecting to have to pay for them by all of a sudden NOW wanting to cut spending while still coddling the "job creators" and not raising taxes is the issue.

 

[woolfe9999]

33% less per year? Gross or Net? Average or Median?

Are their unemployment stats padded the way ours are? What happens if we measure them the same way?

What is the gini index of Germany?

*warning, it's a trap, i know all of these answers already*

Add to that:

What percentage of the population of each country is below the poverty line?

And several more qualifiers...

 

[cubby1223]

Marco Rubio pretty much lays the truth out while Kerry delivers a weak defense for Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2MAmleI67s

"Compromise that is not a solution, is a waste of time."

Best quote of the whole speech.

What was Kerry doing? He's flat out saying the Democrats will lie to the public every time they have the opportunity to do so. My opinion, people like Kerry is what is wrong with government, not the Tea Party. Those who argue for party posterity, instead of what he believes is right for the country as a whole.

 

[dmcowen674]

I'm far from rich and I don't want to tax the rich. Especially with an income tax.

You are one of those strange Republican people that claim to not be rich yet vote against your own economic interest.

Makes no sense.

 

[bart1975]

They need to up the tax on both the rich and the middle class.

 

[mchammer187]

http://www.visualeconomics.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/

I think this needs to be addressed as well so there is some parity

NJ receives $0.61 per dollar paid in federal taxes

NM receives $2.01 per dollar paid in federal taxes

 

[trenchfoot]

The sub party for the dems is there it just doesn't have a name but it's you hardcore liberals. I'm dead center in middle class and there is no way in hell I want any of these liberals plans to go into effect. try it's only hurting those who make sub 50k.

Here we go again.....I just got through explaining that I'm an independent....a voting MIDDLE CLASS independent, and I'm fighting for the survival of my class, which the repubs don't give one frick'in damn about.

This is why I look at the repubs with dismay and disgust. Being liberal has got nothing to do with why I'm totally against the repub ideology.

It all has to do with the repubs wanting to drive the middle class back down into the ranks of the poor where the middle class came from and where the repubs believe it's where all of us "peasants" belong.

Please share your wisdom about how the Dems who are fighting for the working middle class and the poor is actually hurting the folks they are trying to protect. Sounds interesting.

 

[Double Trouble]

Here we go again.....I just got through explaining that I'm an independent....a voting MIDDLE CLASS independent, and I'm fighting for the survival of my class, which the repubs don't give one frick'in damn about.

Do you really think either side gives a flying leap about you or the middle class or any other class for that matter? Are you that naive? Politicians care about themselves, which means ensuring their own power and political future more than doing what's good for the country or any class. The people are generally to ill-informed to properly evaluate politicians and their performance, so you get what we have now: a bunch of charlatans that tell the public what they want to hear.

Please share your wisdom about how the Dems who are fighting for the working middle class and the poor is actually hurting the folks they are trying to protect. Sounds interesting.

Oh please, that's not even worth discussing. The dems are not fighting for the working middle class or anyone else. They are fighting to stay in power, just like the republicans. Apparently you're one of the saps who's fallen into the trap of playing the party game instead of seeing the bigger picture.

 

[Craig234]

I'm so tired of this war bullshit. If we go back to 9/11. EVERYBODY voted to go to Afganisitan and then later Iraq. Public opinion was also being those decisions.

Yes, public opinion on Iraq was largely manipulated, largely with false information, so the votes against the resolutions were rather courageous.

The vote was intentionally scheduled just before the midterm elections to create maxlimum pressure on members to vote yes.

On top of that, Bush minimized the opposition's objections by promising 'it is not a vote for war' and that he'd let UN inspectors confirm WMD. He broke his word soon after.

And yet, the vote in the House by Democrats was 82-126, 126 AGAINST the resolution. Without checking, you can bet the progressive caucus was most heavily against it.

So your "EVERYBODY" is a clear minority of House Democrats, who would not have approved the measure if in charge - which you strongly oppose.

Everyone but one did vote to go into Afghanistan after Al Queda - the one 'no' vote coming from the soon-after chair of the progressive caucus.

Fast forward 10 years and we have a bunch of people blaming wars on a single party. It's goo thing we don't live in a true democracy with the short term memory the public has.

Or your inaccurate memory and recitation of false history.

The Iraq War was a clearly Republican initiative. There are zero indications Al Gore would have come up with the desire for war there, the 'imminent threat' of 'crop dusters spreading WMD in the US' or the 'mushroom cloud', manipulating the intelligence we had so one clearly unreliable drunk trying to peddle a story for asylum in German they warned us was unreliable, who we had never spoken with, was nearly our entire 'case' for WMD.

And not going into Iraq, the Afghan forces would not have been weakened by being re-assigned to Iraq, and Tora Bora might have gone quite differently.

It's 'centrists' like you we need to worry about, with false ideology, where you have to blame 'both sides' for everything.

 

[Double Trouble]

More on topic: It's hard to say who the winners and losers are until all the facts are available. The devil is always in the details. I'm guessing everything will continue as before, the can is kicked further down the road as usual. The two main points I see as political "winners" for the two sides are 1) debt debate kicked down the road past the elections, clear win for Obama, and 2) no new taxes or tax increases, clear win for the tea party / republicans.

One thing seems certain, the American people continue to be the losers, regardless of who gets the blame / credit for this debt ceiling "deal".

I think then-senator Obama had it right when he said raising the debt ceiling is a clear sign of lack of leadership, and that includes both parties.

 

[Craig234]

On Germany, the point is comparing what's working better, our right-wing approach, or their more 'socialistic' approach? Clearly it's the latter.

The point isn't comparing all kinds of statistics not having anything to do with that on the economy just based on everything from our standing as the reserve currency to natural resources so being the leading military in the world and all kinds of other factors. Looking at the factors relative to recovering from economic crisis, the 'more socialistic' approach is vindicated looking at the statistics relevant to who better stands up to and recovers from the crash. Our Wall Street ownership of government is a global threat.

 

[Doppel]

I like the section called Winners and Losers, like this is a football game to be won by the best team...

That's all politics is to most people. The voting general public takes a game day attitude to this and it's why you see such blind partisanship by people who ought to realize both teams suck.

Status quo continues, as was expected. The austerity is delayed and the economy continues to languish. Cry baby businesses complain about Obama never minding the fact that the government is their biggest client.

It was a good theatre though, these faux deadlines help us all discover the reason why the pain will come. Unfortunately the majority of this country doesn't have the courage for the austerity. Republican or Democrat. Obama has another 2 trillion to play with? See you in Syria next Sunday citizen!

ENGORGE THE BEAST!!

Yep. Most of the country wants to cut government spending but only on things like "foreign donations". None can stomach the real price of cuts because it will hit them hard.

 

[Naeeldar]

They pay payroll taxes, so cut those.

You really do believe that should be done don't you? Is there more we should give the poor as well?

 

[EagleKeeper]

The key to this deal is the trigger, until we know more about the triggers its hard to say who won. Compared to what Obama offered the republicans a week ago this seems like a win for Obama, if the triggers are as reported cuts to defense and medicare. Becuase he really only gave up 1T in cuts which was agreed to by everyone months ago, and it would appear that both of the triggers would be unpalatable to the republicans base voters which will give the democrats the upper hand in the coming negotiations between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

But this is far from a done deal, I have zero confidence that Boehner can command the tea party votes in the House, and will have to depend on some Dems to come over.

As stated, the triggers are the key.

Presently, they just agreed to kick the can down the road for 3 months and apply smoke and mirrors.

The only thing that was accomplished is that Obama and the current Congress does not have to go through this fight prior to the elections.

See how it works; Fake friendship and pass the buck to the next group.

Any trigger can be found to get around if enough people agree to do so.
Having the tea party around caused this trigger on the deficit to almost be pulled. Will they be able to force anything by Turkey day?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Cuts weren't deep enough...lower debt rating likely.

 

[Blackjack200]

That's all politics is to most people. The voting general public takes a game day attitude to this and it's why you see such blind partisanship by people who ought to realize both teams suck.Yep. Most of the country wants to cut government spending but only on things like "foreign donations". None can stomach the real price of cuts because it will hit them hard.

Blind partisanship? Take a poll and I'll bet the vast majority of left leaning members of this forum are unhappy/angry at Obama and the Democrats for the deal they struck. Obama is essentially Reagan right now. If you look at how the negotiations have unfolded, the poll numbers, and the reactions in online and print media from traditional commentators on the left (Krugman etc.) and you get "blind partisanship"

You really do believe that should be done don't you? Is there more we should give the poor as well?

Only if you want to stimulate the economy.

 

[PokerGuy]

What a bunch of hooey. This doesn't really cut spending, it just ends the current "crisis" by pulling out the old credit card again. I expect this from obummer and the critters in congress.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Democrats won...they forestalled all cuts until after next election...meanwhile Rome burns.

 

[ichy]

Neither side was willing to do the politically unpalatable things (entitlement cuts and higher taxes) that the Simpson-Bowles plan called for. This deal solves nothing.