We had a PETA speaker today...

[Danman]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: cashman

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

(wrong) x 2 != right

If the people who kill abortion doctors, nurses, etc. can look in a mirror and call themselves "pro-life" they shouldn't even be considered human anymore.

It started as a serious question. ScottyLiBeral made it sound like it was standard practice and I was wondering how often this has actually happened. I've only heard of a few cases (Paul Hill is one).

Sorry this is off-topic, but I didn't start it.
Answer this question for me:
If a person had murdered hundreds of children (Jeffrey Dahmer types), and someone killed that person to prevent them from murdering their next victim, do you think that action would be justified?
I know it's different, but if you believe that a baby is entitled to the same protection of life before birth as after birth, then it is very easy to understand the logic used by someone like Paul Hill to justify his actions.

It is not as simple as saying 2 wrongs don't make right. That is assuming that you actually have 2 wrongs.
If someone breaks into your house and is about to shoot your wife and children, would you kill them?
Would it be wrong?
I certainly would and I would have zero guilt about it.

Paul Hill believed he was doing the right thing by killing someone who made their living off of the killing of human beings. He was trying to protect innocent children from having their brains sucked out of their skulls even after they have a beating heart, functioning nervous system, senses of pain, touch, smell, taste, etc. simply because they are an inconvenience.

EDIT: And no, I am not religious at all.

Heh, this is a really touchy subject. I think those two situations are different, if someone broke into my house and they were coming to harm my wife or child; I would light the bitch up. He did that for a purpose, he's a sick fvck. But an abortion doctor, it's a line of work and the mother consents to it. If your wife wanted to be killed, yea that's rediculous but it's her choice. I think women have that choice, even if it's right or wrong. It's not up to any of the pro or anti protestors.

It all comes down to the mother's decision.

Yeah, but your twisting the analogy.
We aren't talking about someone choosing to kill themselves. We are talking about someone choosing to kill another human being.

Change your analogy to:
What if you and your wife hired the guy to break in and kill your 5 year old son, would that simply be "your choice"?
Would I be justified in killing that guy to prevent the murder of your son even if you and your wife both "chose" to have the son killed?
It's all a question of where you draw the line.

I just think it's ridiculous to say that the day before a child is born, it's legal to kill that child, but the day after the child is born, you can get the death penalty for that crime. It's the same person the day before birth as it is the day after birth. It's just in a different environment.

I don't have an answer as to where that line should be drawn, but it sure as hell should be much earlier than birth. The child is a fully functioning, fully conscious human being by the time they are 18 weeks gestation.

Yes, there is a line to this. I really don't know more on the subject so I'd like to know go on because I don't want to be a fool. I just know there should be a time where you can't get an abortion. Again, this is a really gray situation so I again, I think the mother has the choice of having an abortion until a certain time.

 

[gsaldivar]

should have walked out, I would have and then complained to the Dean

I'd write a letter to the Dean as well.

I would be mad as hell to see my hard-earned tuition dollars used to sponsor some tree-hugger's political wetdream...

If your school receives federal funding, I doubt certain people would be pleased to hear that your school's funding is being used to support these speakers as well...

Maybe more than one letter is in order....?

:beer:

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: yukichigai
The argument about killing abortion doctors to prevent more deaths is flawed with the comparisons I've seen. I'm not going to say it's because fetuses aren't people, no no no, we've heard enough of that over and over again. What I want to point out is that in all the comparisons I've seen the allegory to the abortion doctor is always something... well evil, but knowingly evil, like a burglar or a mass-murderer. It's not like abortion doctors go to work and say "oh yeah, gonna kill me some fetuses today because I'm evil, whooooo! Yeah! Go satan!" These people honestly believe in what they are doing. But instead of attempting to reason with them these whackjob extremists kill them. That's not activism, it's barbarism.

I understand what you are saying.

But intent really doesn't define whether an act is right or wrong, good or evil.

Abortion doctors may believe that they are doing the right thing.
Paul Hill also honestly believed he was doing the right thing. Does that make what he did ok?

Believing that you are doing something moral does not make it so.

No, it doesn't. But jumping straight to murder without trying all other means possible is inhuman.

Not if you believe wasting time will cost lives.

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: yukichigai

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: yukichigai
The argument about killing abortion doctors to prevent more deaths is flawed with the comparisons I've seen. I'm not going to say it's because fetuses aren't people, no no no, we've heard enough of that over and over again. What I want to point out is that in all the comparisons I've seen the allegory to the abortion doctor is always something... well evil, but knowingly evil, like a burglar or a mass-murderer. It's not like abortion doctors go to work and say "oh yeah, gonna kill me some fetuses today because I'm evil, whooooo! Yeah! Go satan!" These people honestly believe in what they are doing. But instead of attempting to reason with them these whackjob extremists kill them. That's not activism, it's barbarism.

I understand what you are saying.

But intent really doesn't define whether an act is right or wrong, good or evil.

Abortion doctors may believe that they are doing the right thing.
Paul Hill also honestly believed he was doing the right thing. Does that make what he did ok?

Believing that you are doing something moral does not make it so.

No, it doesn't. But jumping straight to murder without trying all other means possible is inhuman.

Not if you believe wasting time will cost lives.

No, that's still inhuman. At the very least you can start taking hostages before you start blowing crap up.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

not babies.

also, abortion is legal, bombing clinics is NOT.

Enough with the terminology. Calling it a different name doesn't make it different. It just makes it easier to pretend. Like calling cows beef and pigs pork. I always wondered why chickens don't get an alias when we eat them.
When does a "fetus" become a baby?
At birth?
If a full-term "fetus" has it's entire body delivered except for the head, then it isn't a baby?
Could you tell me what the difference is in the human being before birth and after birth?
All I can think of is it gets it's oxygen and nutrition differently. Physiologically, there is no magical, miraculous change at birth.

And slavery used to be legal too. That doesn't make it right.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

should have walked out, I would have and then complained to the Dean

I'd write a letter to the Dean as well.

I would be mad as hell to see my hard-earned tuition dollars used to sponsor some tree-hugger's political wetdream...

If your school receives federal funding, I doubt certain people would be pleased to hear that your school's funding is being used to support these speakers as well...

Maybe more than one letter is in order....?

:beer:

See...this doesn't make sense to me. Political agenda or not, use it as an example of how NOT to argue your point.

Lessons to be learned from this;
- Overly offensive arguments will alienate most of a general audience.
- Back your points.
- Be prepared for counter-arguments and debates.
- Be prepared to support previous works/arguments/actions by yourself or your supporting organization when they're called into question.
- Do not draw attention to aspects about your own background which will harm your credibility with the audience.
....the list goes on....and it all applies to English Comp and wirting argument papers.

If you're at public liberal arts university then there's really nothing wrong with what the prof did. It all plays into getting a well-rounded and education and experience. Just do the paper and type exactly how you feel about the guy and his argument....but be sure to back yourself up too. It's certainly not such a pinnacle of an offense to go over the guy's head, on a personal mission, and basically kill whatever respect or indifferent opinion he had for you and jeopardize your grade.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2See...this doesn't make sense to me. Political agenda or not, use it as an example of how NOT to argue your point.

I was describing how I would feel, if I were forced to sit through a PETA speech during classtime.

I wasn't offering advice on what to put in a letter to the Dean.

 

[gsellis]

Back to the topic...

Can your prof explain why she/he supports an organization that harbors terrorist and financially supports terrorism? Can your prof explain why the group defends eco-terrorist? Idiots all.

Yup, some dumb bunny PETA members decide to FREE minks in Britain. Minks are predators. Gee, now all of the threatened birds and mice in the area are disappearing as mink food. Mindless idiots.

Someone tells me they are in PETA and I get an advanced warning that they are clueless morons not to be trusted.

Vented, I feel better now.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Back to the topic... Can your prof explain why she/he supports an organization that harbors terrorist and financially supports terrorism? Can your prof explain why the group defends eco-terrorist?...

Rather than be drawn into a debate on the merits of the speaker's argument,

I object to the *presence* of the speaker in the classroom to begin with.

Unless you're specifically taking a course in political issues, a federally-funded classroom isn't the proper forum for special-interest groups to seek people sympathetic to their cause.

Why should I foot the bill for the teacher's salary, classroom facilities, and tuition - to hear a political sales pitch???

 

[BadNewsBears]

Originally posted by: cashman

Originally posted by: ggavinmoss
It's funny, I think we liberals hate PETA more than anyone because people lump us into the same catagory. PETA is reatarded. Freaking idiots.

-geoff

You know what, I came to realize liberals aren't that bad. We all have our different views and all of the liberals I know aren't really that radical. I just hate the really radical lefts that are loco. But PETA takes the cake now.

Just stand the hell up and yell GET IN MY BELLY! You look like a cow! GET IN MY BELLY

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

1) A lot

2) none, they abort fetuses

 

[BadNewsBears]

Someone with photochop skills get a picture of hunting round (.270 win) and chopp peta onto for kicks.

 

[BadNewsBears]

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

1) A lot

2) none, they abort fetuses

Not many and they have the basic seven characteristics of all living things, dont matter its a human its alive.
done
end
period
no room for a response
just stfu

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: Munchies

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

1) A lot

2) none, they abort fetuses

Not many and they have the basic seven characteristics of all living things, dont matter its a human its alive.
done
end
period
no room for a response
just stfu

So do adults. Are they babies too?

 

[Analog]

play ted nugent in the background.

 

[Triumph]

thanks for turning a good thread into an abortion argument, everyone.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: ScottyB
I don't like PETA either, but I rather have them than the anti-choice crowd that kill doctors, nurses and women by blowing up buildings.

How many doctors, nurses, and women have been killed by anti-abortion protesters?

and how many babies have been killed by abortion doctors?

not babies.

also, abortion is legal, bombing clinics is NOT.

Enough with the terminology. Calling it a different name doesn't make it different. It just makes it easier to pretend. Like calling cows beef and pigs pork. I always wondered why chickens don't get an alias when we eat them.
When does a "fetus" become a baby?
At birth?
If a full-term "fetus" has it's entire body delivered except for the head, then it isn't a baby?
Could you tell me what the difference is in the human being before birth and after birth?
All I can think of is it gets it's oxygen and nutrition differently. Physiologically, there is no magical, miraculous change at birth.

And slavery used to be legal too. That doesn't make it right.

and you totally missed the point of my post.

BOMBING clinics is ILLEGAL, ABORTION is NOT, if you want to change the law fine, but until the law has changed, the distinction between illegally bombing clinics and legally aborting fetuses remains.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Triumph
thanks for turning a good thread into an abortion argument, everyone.

what was good about this thread?? it was just another rant, as far as rants go, it was average.

the subject of the rant?? hey, he is going to have to listen to a LOT of things in classes before he graduates. that's just life. does he expect to hear ONLY from people he agrees with??

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Triumph
thanks for turning a good thread into an abortion argument, everyone.

what was good about this thread?? it was just another rant, as far as rants go, it was average.

the subject of the rant?? hey, he is going to have to listen to a LOT of things in classes before he graduates. that's just life. does he expect to hear ONLY from people he agrees with??

I have heard a lot of people that I don't agree with. None of them were even close to what this guy did, he was rude and PETA has unethical practices.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Originally posted by: shenaniganz

Originally posted by: Citrix
I love professors like that. I have had 2 and every second i get i challenge them on their views. Hey if they are going to bring it to a classroom and push it on me, they better have the facts to back them up. I hate profs like that, they think they are God and know everything.

**edit, btw, i got a low C in the class.

Yes, I figured it out early on, that if you want to get good grades in a class don't clash with your profs, tell them what they want to hear, regardless if it clashes with your personal opinion. This sucks but it is the truth.

Ironic that these are the same bastards that fought so hard for their tenure so that they wouldn't be persecuted for their opinions.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Triumph
thanks for turning a good thread into an abortion argument, everyone.

what was good about this thread?? it was just another rant, as far as rants go, it was average.

Because it unified AT's hate for PETA. We hardly ever get along on anything!

 

[GasX]

/me raises hand...

excuse me Mr PETA-man. If God didn't want us to eat aninamls, can you tell me why god made animals out of meat?

 

[Hammer]

did you know about it in advance? you should have brought a steak to class and ate it right in front of him.

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
/me raises hand...

excuse me Mr PETA-man. If God didn't want us to eat aninamls, can you tell me why god made animals out of meat?

Exactly. I said it's a food chain, we are the dominant species. Couldn't answer my question.

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: Hammer
did you know about it in advance? you should have brought a steak to class and ate it right in front of him.

Our professor told us there was a guest speaker but he didn't say who it was going to be. I had no idea it was going to be a PETA speaker or I would of stopped at Wendy's and got a #2!