We fooked

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I have told y'all before how screwed we are but here is a supply side economist from Reagan White House waking up. Maybe you'll believe him rather than tout TV. Basically starve to beast worked and Mexico is what you have to look forward to. Sorta makes all these nonsensical political discussions mute IMO. If you're 62, I'd grab SS while you can and at least get something.


<logs off to buy more MRE's>
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...social-security-to-pay-for-wars-and-bailouts/

Stealing from Social Security to Pay for Wars and Bailouts
by Paul Craig Roberts
March 10, 2011

The American Empire is failing. A number of its puppet rulers are being overthrown by popular protests, and the almighty dollar will not even buy one Swiss franc, one Canadian dollar, or one Australian dollar. Despite the sovereign debt problem that threatens E.U. members Greece, Ireland, Spain, and Portugal, it requires $1.38 dollars to buy one euro, a new currency that was issued at parity with the US dollar.

The U.S. dollar&#8217;s value is likely to fall further in terms of other currencies, because nothing is being done about the US budget and trade deficits. Obama&#8217;s budget, if passed, doesn&#8217;t reduce the deficit over the next ten years by enough to cover the projected deficit in the FY 2012 budget.

Indeed, the deficits are likely to be substantially larger than forecast. The military/security complex, about which President Eisenhower warned Americans a half century ago, is more powerful than ever and shows no inclination to halt the wars for U.S. hegemony.

The cost of these wars is enormous. The U.S. media, being good servants for the government, only reports the out-of-pocket or current cost of the wars, which is only about one-third of the real cost. The current cost leaves out the cost of life-long care for the wounded and maimed, the cost of life-long military pensions of those who fought in the wars, the replacement costs of the destroyed equipment, the opportunity cost of the resources wasted in war, and other costs. The true cost of America&#8217;s illegal Iraq invasion, which was based entirely on lies, fabrications and deceptions, is at least $3,000 billion according to economist Joseph Stiglitz and budget expert Linda Bilmes.

The same for the Afghan war, which is ongoing. If the Afghan war lasts as long as the Pentagon says it needs to, the cost will be a multiple of the cost of the Iraq war.

There is not enough non-military discretionary spending in the budget to cover the cost of the wars even if every dollar is cut. As long as the $1,200 billion ($1.2 trillion) annual budget for the military/security complex is off limits, nothing can be done about the U.S. budget deficit except to renege on obligations to the elderly, confiscate private assets, or print enough money to inflate away all debts.

The other great contribution to the U.S. deficit is the offshoring of production for U.S. markets. This practice has enriched corporate management, large shareholders, and Wall Street, but it has eroded the tax base, and thereby tax collections, of local, state, and federal government, halted the growth of real income for everyone but the rich, and disrupted the lives of those Americans whose jobs were sent abroad. When short-term and long-term discouraged workers are added to the U3 measure of unemployment, the U.S. has an unemployment rate of 22&#37;. A country with more than one-fourth of its work force unemployed has a shrunken tax base and feeble consumer purchasing power.

To put it bluntly, the $3 trillion cost of the Iraq war, as computed by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes, is 20% of the size of the U.S. economy in 2010. In other words, the Iraq war alone cost Americans one-fifth of the year&#8217;s gross domestic product. Instead of investing the resources, which would have produced income and jobs growth and solvency for state and local governments, the U.S. government wasted the equivalent of 20% of the production of the economy in 2010 in blowing up infrastructure and people in foreign lands. The U.S. government spent a huge sum of money committing war crimes, while millions of Americans were thrown out of their jobs and foreclosed out of their homes.

The bought-and-paid-for Congress had no qualms about unlimited funding for war, but used the resulting &#8220;debt crisis&#8221; to refuse help to American citizens who were out of work and out of their homes.

The obvious conclusion is that &#8220;our&#8221; government does not represent us.

The U.S. government remains a champion of offshoring, which it calls &#8220;globalism.&#8221; According to the U.S. government and its shills among &#8220;free market&#8221; economists, destroying American manufacturing and the tax bases of cities, states, and the federal government by moving U.S. jobs and GDP offshore is &#8220;good for the economy.&#8221; It is &#8220;free trade.&#8221;

It is the same sort of &#8220;good&#8221; that the U.S. government brings to Iraq and Afghanistan by invading those countries and destroying lives, homes and infrastructures. Destruction is good. That&#8217;s the way our government and its shills see things. In America destruction is done with jobs offshoring, financial deregulation, and fraudulent financial instruments. In Iraq and Afghanistan (and now Pakistan) is it done with bombs and drones.

Where is all this leading?

It is leading to the destruction of Social Security and Medicare.

Republicans have convinced a large percentage of voters that America is in trouble, not because it wastes 20% of the annual budget on wars of aggression and Homeland Security porn-scanners, but because of the poor and retirees.

Pundits scapegoat the middle class and blame the struggling middle along with the poor and retirees. Fareed Zakaria, for example, sees no extravagance in a trillion dollar military budget. The real money, he says, is in programs for the middle class, and the middle class &#8220;will immediately punish any [politician] who proposes spending cuts in any middle class program.&#8221; What does Zakaria think the military/security complex will do to any politician who cuts the military budget? As a well-paid shill he had rather not say.

Andrew Sullivan also has no concept of reductions in military/security subsidies: &#8220;they&#8217;re big babies I mean, people keep saying they don&#8217;t want any tax increases, but they don&#8217;t want to have their Medicare cut, they don&#8217;t want to have their Medicaid [cut] or they don&#8217;t want to have their Social Security touched one inch. Well, it&#8217;s about time someone tells them, you can&#8217;t have it, baby.&#8221;

Niall Ferguson thinks that Americans are so addicted to wars that the U.S. government will default on Social Security and Medicare.

Republicans tell us that our grandchildren are being saddled with impossible debt burdens because of handouts to retirees and the poor. $3 trillion wars are necessary and have nothing to do with the growth of the public debt. The public debt is due to unnecessary &#8220;welfare&#8221; that workers paid for with a 15% payroll tax.

When you hear a Republican sneer &#8220;entitlement,&#8221; he or she is referring to Social Security and Medicare, for which people have paid 15% of their wages for their working lifetime. But when a Republican sneers, he or she is saying &#8220;welfare.&#8221; To the distorted mind of a Republican, Social Security and Medicare are undeserved welfare payments to people who over-consumed for a lifetime and did not save for their old age needs.

America can be strong again once we get rid of these welfare leeches.

Once we are rid of these leeches, we can really fight wars. And show people who is boss.

Republicans regard Social Security as an &#8220;unfunded liability,&#8221; that is, a giveaway that is interfering with our war-making ability.

Alas, Social Security is an unfunded liability, because all the money working people put into it was stolen by Republicans and Democrats in order to pay for wars and bailouts for mega-rich bankers like Goldman Sachs.


What I am about to tell you might come as a shock, but it is the absolute truth, which you can verify for yourself by going online to the government&#8217;s annual OASDI and HI reports. According to the official 2010 Social Security reports, between 1984 and 2009 the American people contributed $2 trillion, that is $2,000 billion, more to Social Security and Medicare in payroll taxes than was paid out in benefits.

What happened to the surplus $2,000 billion, or $2,000,000,000,000?

The government spent it.

Over the past quarter century, $2 trillion in Social Security and Medicare revenues have been used to finance wars and pork-barrel projects of the US government.

Depending on assumptions about population growth, income growth and other factors, Social Security continues to be in the black until after 2025 or 2035 under the &#8220;high cost&#8221; and &#8220;intermediate&#8221; assumptions and the current payroll tax rate of 15.3% based on the revenues paid in and the interest on those surplus revenues. Under the low cost scenario, Social Security (OASDI) will have produced surplus revenues of $31.6 trillion by 2085.

When I was Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Deputy Assistant Secretary Steve Entin worked out a way to put Social Security on a sound basis with the current rate of payroll tax without requiring one cent of general revenues. You can read about it in chapter 9 of my book, The Supply-Side Revolution, which Harvard University Press has kept in print for more than a quarter century. Entin&#8217;s solution, or a variation of it, would still work, so Social Security can easily be saved within the current payroll tax rate. Instead of acknowledging this incontrovertible fact, the right-wing wants to terminate the program.

Treasury was blocked from putting Entin&#8217;s plan into effect by the fact that other parts of the government and the Greenspan Social Security Commission had agendas different from ensuring a sound Social Security system.

Wall Street insisted that the Reagan tax rate reductions would explode consumer spending, cause inflation and destroy the values of stock and bond portfolios. When inflation collapsed instead of exploding, Wall Street said that the deficits, which resulted from inflation&#8217;s collapse, would cause inflation and destroy the values of stock and bond portfolios. This didn&#8217;t happen either.

Nevertheless, the Greenspan commission played to these mistaken fears. The &#8220;Reagan deficits&#8221; could not cause inflation, because they were the result of the unanticipated collapse of inflation (anticipated only by supply-side economists). As I demonstrated in a paper published in the 1980s in the U.S., U.K., Japan, Germany, Italy, and other countries, tax revenues were below the forecast amounts because inflation, and thus nominal GNP, were below forecast. The collapse of inflation also made real government spending higher than intended as the spending figures in the five-year budget were based on higher inflation than was realized.

The subsidy to the U.S. government from the payroll tax is larger than the $2 trillion in excess revenue collections over payouts. The subsidy of the Social Security payroll tax to the government also includes the fact that $2.8 trillion of U.S. government debt obligations are not in the market. If the national debt held by the public were $2.8 trillion larger, so would be the debt service costs and most likely also the interest rate.

The money left over for war would be even smaller. More would have to be borrowed or printed.

The difference between the $2 trillion in excess Social Security revenues and the $2.8 trillion figure is the $0.8 trillion that is the accumulated interest over the years on the mounting $2 trillion in debt, if the Treasury had had to issue bonds, instead of non-marketable IOUs, to the Social Security Trust Fund. When the budget is in deficit, the Treasury pays interest by issuing new bonds in the amount of the interest due. In other words, the interest on the debt adds to the debt outstanding.

The robbed Social Security Trust Fund can only be made good by the U.S. Treasury issuing another $2.8 trillion in U.S. government debt to pay off its IOUs to the fund.

When a government is faced with a $14 trillion public debt growing by trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, how does it add another $2.8 trillion to the mix?

Only with great difficulty.

Therefore, to avoid repaying the $2.8 trillion that the government has stolen for its wars and bailouts for mega-rich bankers, the right-wing has selected entitlements as the sacrificial lamb.


A government that runs a deficit too large to finance by borrowing will print money as long as it can. When the printing press begins to push up inflation and push down the exchange value of the dollar, the government will be tempted to reduce its debt by reneging on entitlements or by confiscating private assets such as pension funds. When it has confiscated private assets and reneged on public obligations, nothing is left but the printing press.


We owe the end-time situation that we face to open-ended wars and to an unregulated financial system concentrated in a few hands that produces financial crises by leveraging debt to irresponsible levels.

The government of the United States does not represent the American people. It represents the oligarchs. The way campaign finance and elections are structured, the American people cannot take back their government by voting. A once proud and free people have been reduced to serfdom.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
I didn't read the whole thing but I don't understand the part about the $3 trillion Iraq war costing 20&#37; of the US economy in 2010... The war has been going on for 9 years, not just 2010.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
I didn't read the whole thing but I don't understand the part about the $3 trillion Iraq war costing 20% of the US economy in 2010... The war has been going on for 9 years, not just 2010.

He says a bunch of times that the $3 trillion is 20% the cost of the 2010 GDP. Your car may have cost 1/3 your annual salary, but you're on a 5 year payment plan.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,505
9,725
136
Think the people will accept cuts? I think they'd rather turn into Libya first.

Is Wisconsin not proof enough? They make a meager attempt to correct a portion of the costs and you get that meltdown. Actually correcting the problem will result in far worse protests and violence.

The American people think fake wealth is real. It will cost them many lives. Maybe most.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
I think the article capture just how radical Republicans are. These right-wing fools always complain about indoctrination, socialism, and other ideologies. But how can anyone honestly say that right-wing hasn't suffered DECADES of indoctrination?! These people are RADICAL in thought and faith to their inevitable serfdom!

In spite of all this America is so wealthy in ways that it may be possible to endure years more of irresponsible wars, governance, and spending. Unfortunately that wealth is not a good thing because at some point it only delays the inevitable and drops us further into the abyss.

For the most part I have already resigned myself to the idea that the baby boomers will reap what they have sewn. There golden years will be a HOLOCAUST as they die in their hoverounds. One bad heat streak during the summer will see millions of dead Americans year after year. It will be a DECADE OF DEATH as their children go into their parents homes and find them rotting because they couldn't afford food and medicine.

But all the above will be a side story. The main event will be how will the government devour private wealth to sustain its recklessness. At some point I think even the wealthy will find their ill-gotten gains being recaptured. Actually check that, that money will morph into funny money right before their eyes. I don't know, it all depends on just how cheaply the baby boomers mortality can be stolen from them.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I think the article capture just how radical Republicans are. These right-wing fools always complain about indoctrination, socialism, and other ideologies. But how can anyone honestly say that right-wing hasn't suffered DECADES of indoctrination?! These people are RADICAL in thought and faith to their inevitable serfdom!

says the fool as Obama leads us into another war...
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
I think wars are less of a problem here than SS, medicare, etc. This is a highly warring country, though, common in culture and indicated in its incredibly huge military.

We are structured to think short term. Politicians are thinking to their next election and do everything based on campaign lobbying. And their constituents do not look further than this, too. That is why you see in any given year a very viable budget that works, but it piles onto the debt. And no economist thinks this is going to work long term. At some point the unending deficits bring debt levels up to an unmanageable level and you have a debt crisis, like we've seen in not just pissant third world nations but first world European nations, and this is going to expand outward to more countries.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Is it a mute point, or moot?

:confused:

Watch Fall of the Republic in my sig.
I've heard of this before, these globalists and their desire for a one-world government--their agenda. However, this is assumed by conspiracy theorists as a given, they don't seem to indicate WHY they want a one-world government. This is a huge flaw in their argument and it makes no sense to me. I think these people have too much faith in the planning competency of those in power. I don't see any great conspiracy, I see mostly short-sighted selfishness by everybody and that results in what we have, not really anything more evil.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
I think the article capture just how radical Republicans are. These right-wing fools always complain about indoctrination, socialism, and other ideologies. But how can anyone honestly say that right-wing hasn't suffered DECADES of indoctrination?! These people are RADICAL in thought and faith to their inevitable serfdom!

In spite of all this America is so wealthy in ways that it may be possible to endure years more of irresponsible wars, governance, and spending. Unfortunately that wealth is not a good thing because at some point it only delays the inevitable and drops us further into the abyss.

For the most part I have already resigned myself to the idea that the baby boomers will reap what they have sewn. There golden years will be a HOLOCAUST as they die in their hoverounds. One bad heat streak during the summer will see millions of dead Americans year after year. It will be a DECADE OF DEATH as their children go into their parents homes and find them rotting because they couldn't afford food and medicine.

But all the above will be a side story. The main event will be how will the government devour private wealth to sustain its recklessness. At some point I think even the wealthy will find their ill-gotten gains being recaptured. Actually check that, that money will morph into funny money right before their eyes. I don't know, it all depends on just how cheaply the baby boomers mortality can be stolen from them.
Have you given any consideration to declaring boomers enemies of the state? You could round them up in camps, starve them, gas them and incinerate their bodies or bury them in mass graves. Being reactive is no way to go through life. You've identified your enemy. Why accept your fate?
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
I have told y'all before how screwed we are but here is a supply side economist from Reagan White House waking up.
Roberts has been quite awake for a good while now, see my sig for a previous example.

I've heard of this before, these globalists and their desire for a one-world government--their agenda.
From the horse's mouth:

For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure &#8212; one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
-David Rockefeller ("Memoirs", pg 405, ISBN-13: 978-0812969733)​

However, this is assumed by conspiracy theorists as a given, they don't seem to indicate WHY
The "why" is really pretty simple, perhaps you might try thinking it through on your own instead dismissing those of us who have.

I think these people have too much faith in the planning competency of those in power. I don't see any great conspiracy, I see mostly short-sighted selfishness by everybody and that results in what we have, not really anything more evil.
I'll bet that helps you sleep better at night.
 
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mcmilljb

Platinum Member
May 17, 2005
2,144
2
81
Has this guy been sleeping under rock? Most people already know this stuff. The wars won't end because politicians use fear of what would happen if we left.

Plus he's wrong about the euro. It was not issued at parity with the US dollar. When physical euros were actually issued, they were worth less than a dollar.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
He says a bunch of times that the $3 trillion is 20% the cost of the 2010 GDP. Your car may have cost 1/3 your annual salary, but you're on a 5 year payment plan.

Political spin showing the numbers in a way to prove a political point. Since we already own all the vehicles, tanks, planes, helicopters and most of the soldiers there were already on fulltime payroll anyways, how much of that $3 trillion is actual cost incurred had we not been in Iraq and just paid to have the troops home or elsewhere?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Our government has been robbing from Social Security LONG before the war. Leave it to our government to not even be able to run the best possible Pyramid Scheme ever. There will always be more people paying into it then they will have to pay out.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
SS was flawed from the start. Never trust the government with your money. I'm not expecting anything to be there for me.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
Cuts in Social Security are inevitable as he says. In order to make up for the fact that people have seen decreasing income tax rates, SS has been used to make up the difference. This eliminated the trust fund that was supposed to be used for future benefits.

We will need to increase both income tax and SS taxes in order to make up for it and no one, including myself, wants to see that.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
You know... It is a good article, but he blows it with this line...

"The U.S. government spent a huge sum of money committing war crimes"

Why discredit himself when that type of accusal inflames many of us?

The reality is this... Either we will cut military spending, and entitlements collectively, or this nation of ours is going to go the way of the former USSR... You will have economically viable portions of this country band together and cleave themselves off one by one as the shit hits the fan. The North East can see if it can survive on it's own with it's own super high taxation, and California won't have a federal US gov't to bail it out of it's own financial mess.... ETC...

I'm 40 now and I'll probably be dead by time that would happen, but these things tend to spiral out of control quickly when they do kick off. I think we americans have a love affair with our country and it's founding as well growth over history and we'd be very reluctant to let it split up.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
602
126
says the fool as Obama leads us into another war...

This is where the article lost me. It spent a lot of time blaming Republicans, and man do they deserve blame...but all I've seen out of the Democrats is a continuation of their policies. Don't get me wrong, the machine is to large and I expected Obama to fail. I did expect him to at least try though.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,565
3,753
126
We will need to increase both income tax and SS taxes in order to make up for it and no one, including myself, wants to see that.

A gradule increase in the age requirement to pay out SS would help too
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
<logs off to buy more MRE's>

MREs are too expensive and have a short lifespan, especially when exposed to heat, like when stored in a shed.

If you want to buy anything, buy land.

The man who own his home, owns land, and grows his own food is as free as your going to get.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,621
136
Owning land is fine so long as the tax system and/or governmental system doesn't change. You could easily find yourself losing the land in a tax foreclosure, even in the most innocuous system-tax foreclosures happen all the time now.

Back on topic, IMO the one thing Al Gore got right was calling for a lockbox on the Social Security funds. As been amply proven, Presidents of any political stripe-from Reagan to Clinton-happily looted the social security system to fund the general budget. And now we regular folks who paid into the system for decades are supposed to feel guilty about it and sacrifice further.

I never thought I'd agree with anything Paul Roberts wrote, but that article is dead on right. The sad thing is so many of us-teabaggers especially-will never bother to even read it, much less understand it. So the manipulation and screwing of the general population will go on, and continue to go on, so long as the forces in power can get us worked up over gay marriage, abortion, NPR, etc. instead of what really matters.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
The U.S. government spent a huge sum of money committing war crimes

At this point I realized the guy is a complete idiot and stopped reading. Looking at the comments so far I didn't miss anything.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
This is where the article lost me. It spent a lot of time blaming Republicans, and man do they deserve blame...but all I've seen out of the Democrats is a continuation of their policies. Don't get me wrong, the machine is to large and I expected Obama to fail. I did expect him to at least try though.

The party that tries to effect substantive changes that will provide real long term benefits will be extremely unpopular with the general public. So neither party wants to be the one that leads the way.

I generally don't believe in term limits, but implementing a temporary, single-term limit would probably allow these tough changes to be made. Otherwise, politicians are just too focused on keeping their jobs.