"We couldn't connect the dots". What A load of crap

[Ozoned]

Link

Yea, mistakes have been made. We made the boogeyman, and we taught him well.

<--------Wonders what % of US population knows the whole story. ( Well,,,,the parts we have access to)

I'm thinking 5%.......and considering some of the poetry I read here, that might be a stretch.

 

[theeedude]

Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas. In the 80s, the US was sleeping with Osama Bin Laden.

 

[Lemon law]

If even 1/4 of this is true, it looks like Cheney, Rummy, and many others were up to their eyeballs in skullduggery's of the worst sort. Creating Frankenstein monsters and then engaging in the revisionist history of taking credit for trying to contain the very monsters they created.

But when you stir the pot, it rarely ever stabilizes into something better. But there are always shit for brains types always thinking they can destabilize parts of the world without it backfiring. And the more they fail, the more they never learn.

 

[trenchfoot]

arrogance invariably beguiles the shallow/narrow-minded politician into ignoring the fact that the more you mess with something the more you mess it up.

 

[StageLeft]

Wow, this is interesting. I knew portions of this but had not seen a thorough continuous timeline. Only thing I cross-referenced so far was Carter's national security advisor and he did indeed confirm that the US knowingly fomented the likelihood of Russia invading Afghanistan.

It could take a day to read this all. However, I've read bits. Go to July 10/2001 for some spicy details. It's obvious that many, even those high up, in US intelligence were aware of an imminent attack and were trying to warn those who could issue commands to do something about it, but the very top (Bush and close advisors) were not taking the bait. Even after the events of July 10, Bush denied the right to kill Bin Laden.

I think it quite safe to say that when Bush was told of 911 that day in the classroom he probably thought "Oh CRAP, I thought they were crying wolf, I guess not."; there's no way he was surprised entirely and had not known the very real possibility of a multi-pronged attack against US interests, because he had been fairly warned.

 

[yours truly]

his name is actually spelt usama bin laden

u cant spell usama without USA

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
If even 1/4 of this is true, it looks like Cheney, Rummy, and many others were up to their eyeballs in skullduggery's of the worst sort. Creating Frankenstein monsters and then engaging in the revisionist history of taking credit for trying to contain the very monsters they created.

But when you stir the pot, it rarely ever stabilizes into something better. But there are always shit for brains types always thinking they can destabilize parts of the world without it backfiring. And the more they fail, the more they never learn.

This is a journalistic approach to creating a database with the timeline. Obviously what you missed is that it isn't just a rebublican thing, as much as you would like it to be. If you will search the net a bit, you can find a lot of declassified russian stuff from the timeline that preceded and overlapped this period. Decisions had to be made,,,,and were made. Some worked, some didn't.

You have to pick a starting point for the era of history that you choose to study. Be careful of how deep you dig, as you may find things that you don't like or don't want to believe.


I'm living in the results of the pot stirring. I can't think of any other time in history that I would rather be living in......

 

[heyheybooboo]

Pages 1-5 do an okay job on the rise of militancy in the 1980's but gives too much credit to Usama - needs to work in the Muslim Brotherhood to tie anti-western sentiment to jihadists (and never really goes into the Gulf War - and how US bases in SA really ticked Usama).

If you don't get angry in 6-8 you really are a Bush Denier of Fact. You probably think Path to 9/11 is an accurate historical reference. History will prove you sadly mistaken.

By page 9 the crap hits the fan. It is so very sad the emphasis the Cons placed upon a missile shield and the identification of Iraq as a primary threat before 9/11. The Bushies clearly refused to listen about the threats of al Qaeda in the months leading up to 9/11.

Though it is not really germane to the timeline in direct fashion I'm glad there were references to the Turkmenistan-Afghan-beloved patriot pipeline. I followed the Transco pipleline story from the late 1990's and did not know Khalilzad worked for Unocal. It's no surprise that our forces (and $$$$ by way of Wolfie at the Worldbank) are bringing this to fruition in less than 10 years.

It's what the PNAC wants, of course . . . .

 

[Lemon law]

Its some what ironic, that the project for a new American century, as implemented by the idiots who drafted it, will end up being the blueprint for dooming America in the 21'st century. I have to imagine Ossama Bin Laden & friends just sitting back having a party, while realizing that they don't need to even lift a finger because GWB&co. is doing their work for them.

 

[Narmer]

All this is old news. Besides, Americans don't want to hear this shit. As far as they're concerned, America is right.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's like Cheney blasting his hunting buddy in the face- sometimes one becomes so intent on the target that tunnel vision sets in and the law of unintended consequences takes over.

Which is not to excuse what happened in either the shooting or the shooting of ourselves in the foot...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Narmer
All this is old news. Besides, Americans don't want to hear this shit. As far as they're concerned, America is right.

You are right, they don't care about facts that make them question their immediate black and white judgements. I actually sent the link to a bunch of people today with a few key points from it and all I got back was the regular daily ramble about drinking or sex jokes or whatever, and we do have political discussions, but this was above them, it would seem!

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Narmer
All this is old news. Besides, Republicans don't want to hear this shit. As far as they're concerned, Bush is right.

Fixed,

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It could take a day to read this all. However, I've read bits. Go to July 10/2001 for some spicy details. It's obvious that many, even those high up, in US intelligence were aware of an imminent attack and were trying to warn those who could issue commands to do something about it, but the very top (Bush and close advisors) were not taking the bait. Even after the events of July 10, Bush denied the right to kill Bin Laden.

Dumb mistake, or they wanted it to happen?

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It could take a day to read this all. However, I've read bits. Go to July 10/2001 for some spicy details. It's obvious that many, even those high up, in US intelligence were aware of an imminent attack and were trying to warn those who could issue commands to do something about it, but the very top (Bush and close advisors) were not taking the bait. Even after the events of July 10, Bush denied the right to kill Bin Laden.

Dumb mistake, or they wanted it to happen?

Stupidly arrogant?

 

[bamacre]

I had NO idea this happened...

August 1, 2001: Actor Communicates Concerns to Stewardess That Airplane Will Be Hijacked; Warning Forwarded to the FAA

James Woods. [Source: Disney Enterprises/ Publicity photo] Actor James Woods, flying first class on an airplane, notices four Arabic-looking men, the only other people in the first class section. He concludes they are Islamic militants intent on hijacking the plane, acting very strangely (for instance, only talking in whispers). [Boston Globe, 11/23/2001] He tells a flight attendant, ?I think this plane is going to be hijacked,? adding, ?I know how serious it is to say this.? He conveys his worries to the pilots, and they assure him that the cockpit would be locked. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] The flight staff later notifies the FAA about these suspicious individuals. Though the government will not discuss this event, it is highly unlikely that any action is taken regarding the flight staff?s worries [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] Woods will not be interviewed by the FBI until after 9/11. Woods will say the FBI believes that all four men took part in the 9/11 attacks, and the flight he was on was a practice flight for them. [O'Reilly Factor, 2/14/2002] Woods believes one was Khalid Almihdhar and another was Hamza Alghamdi. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] The FBI later will report that this may have been one of a dozen test run flights starting as early as January (see May 24-August 14, 2001). Flight attendants and passengers on other flights later recall men looking like the hijackers who took pictures of the cockpit aboard flights and/or took notes. [Associated Press, 5/29/2002] The FBI has not been able to find any evidence of hijackers on the flight manifest for Woods? flight. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002]

WTF?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It could take a day to read this all. However, I've read bits. Go to July 10/2001 for some spicy details. It's obvious that many, even those high up, in US intelligence were aware of an imminent attack and were trying to warn those who could issue commands to do something about it, but the very top (Bush and close advisors) were not taking the bait. Even after the events of July 10, Bush denied the right to kill Bin Laden.

Dumb mistake, or they wanted it to happen?

Stupidly arrogant?

Well, earlier it was claimed that at least one US Official practically threatened the Taliban that there would be US bombing of Afghanistan if they did not allow that oil pipeline to be built.

I bet it is being built now.

A senior official in the Taliban?s defense ministry tells journalist Hamid Mir that the US will soon invade Afghanistan. Mir will later recall that he is told, ?[W]e believe Americans are going to invade Afghanistan and they will do this before October 15, 2001, and justification for this would be either one of two options: Taliban got control of Afghanistan or a big major attack against American interests either inside America or elsewhere in the world.? Mir reports this information before 9/11, presumably in the newspaper in Pakistan that he works for. [Bergen, 2006, pp. 287] Interestingly, Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar made a similar prediction to Mir several months before (see April 2001). Also, several weeks earlier, US officials reportedly passed word to Taliban officials in a back channel meeting that the US may soon attack Afghanistan if the Taliban do not cooperate on building an oil and gas pipeline running through the country. According to one participant in the meeting, the US attack would take place ?by the middle of October at the latest? (see July 21, 2001).

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I had NO idea this happened...

August 1, 2001: Actor Communicates Concerns to Stewardess That Airplane Will Be Hijacked; Warning Forwarded to the FAA

James Woods. [Source: Disney Enterprises/ Publicity photo] Actor James Woods, flying first class on an airplane, notices four Arabic-looking men, the only other people in the first class section. He concludes they are Islamic militants intent on hijacking the plane, acting very strangely (for instance, only talking in whispers). [Boston Globe, 11/23/2001] He tells a flight attendant, ?I think this plane is going to be hijacked,? adding, ?I know how serious it is to say this.? He conveys his worries to the pilots, and they assure him that the cockpit would be locked. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] The flight staff later notifies the FAA about these suspicious individuals. Though the government will not discuss this event, it is highly unlikely that any action is taken regarding the flight staff?s worries [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] Woods will not be interviewed by the FBI until after 9/11. Woods will say the FBI believes that all four men took part in the 9/11 attacks, and the flight he was on was a practice flight for them. [O'Reilly Factor, 2/14/2002] Woods believes one was Khalid Almihdhar and another was Hamza Alghamdi. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002] The FBI later will report that this may have been one of a dozen test run flights starting as early as January (see May 24-August 14, 2001). Flight attendants and passengers on other flights later recall men looking like the hijackers who took pictures of the cockpit aboard flights and/or took notes. [Associated Press, 5/29/2002] The FBI has not been able to find any evidence of hijackers on the flight manifest for Woods? flight. [New Yorker, 5/27/2002]

WTF?

Yup - I saw that and thought, "Holy crap!"

I bet it is being built now.

See page 11. The pipeline is on. And what's even more interesting is that all my old links in the oriinal project are bad (and they have changed the name of the project to TAP). The original name of the project in the 1990's was CentGas.

Unocal was forced to shut down the original CentGas project because of public pressure - seems some rational folks were pissed about the repressive nature of the Taliban.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Though it is not really germane to the timeline in direct fashion I'm glad there were references to the Turkmenistan-Afghan-beloved patriot pipeline. I followed the Transco pipleline story from the late 1990's and did not know Khalilzad worked for Unocal. It's no surprise that our forces (and $$$$ by way of Wolfie at the Worldbank) are bringing this to fruition in less than 10 years.

It's what the PNAC wants, of course . . . .

Why does PNAC care about a natural gas pipeline?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Narmer
All this is old news. Besides, Americans don't want to hear this shit. As far as they're concerned, America is right.

You are right, they don't care about facts that make them question their immediate black and white judgements. I actually sent the link to a bunch of people today with a few key points from it and all I got back was the regular daily ramble about drinking or sex jokes or whatever, and we do have political discussions, but this was above them, it would seem!

Like I said, the average joe could care less. What one does need to remember, though, is that the political generation that are making most of these decisions, ponder upon WW2. They either lived in the era, or have immediate kinship with people that lived it.

Human Loss of life as a result of World War Two has been estimated at 72,155,600 people or 3.70% of the total population in 1939 (Source)

Don't think for a second that the people in power in this country have been allowed to forget about that war.

I strongly believe that America is right. We just need to be more honest with ourselves.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its some what ironic, that the project for a new American century, as implemented by the idiots who drafted it, will end up being the blueprint for dooming America in the 21'st century. I have to imagine Ossama Bin Laden & friends just sitting back having a party, while realizing that they don't need to even lift a finger because GWB&co. is doing their work for them.

It is so sad that you underestimate America, the people that live here, and what we are capable of when we decide to do a thing.

What country are you from?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It could take a day to read this all. However, I've read bits. Go to July 10/2001 for some spicy details. It's obvious that many, even those high up, in US intelligence were aware of an imminent attack and were trying to warn those who could issue commands to do something about it, but the very top (Bush and close advisors) were not taking the bait. Even after the events of July 10, Bush denied the right to kill Bin Laden.

Dumb mistake, or they wanted it to happen?

Careful now......Remember what I said........ This is a journalistic approach to creating a database with the timeline and it exists for a reason. When a man tells a story, he tells it in a way that he wants it to be heard, even if it is based on factual information. (This should sound somewhat familiar.)

 

[The Green Bean]

The fact was that Islam and the West had a common enemy; communism and socialism. Both Islam and the West are capitalist economies. The war on terror is nothing more than America's attempt to secure the future of Israel and get a foothold in the CARs. The main threat to American domination is no longer Russia or even China but the oil rich M.E. If the wars stop Israel goes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
The fact was that Islam and the West had a common enemy; communism and socialism. Both Islam and the West are capitalist economies. The war on terror is nothing more than America's attempt to secure the future of Israel and get a foothold in the CARs. The main threat to American domination is no longer Russia or even China but the oil rich M.E. If the wars stop Israel goes.

It's shame we haven't come up with an alternative fuel source so the M.E. could go back to being an inconsquential third world region full of religious fanatics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
The fact was that Islam and the West had a common enemy; communism and socialism. Both Islam and the West are capitalist economies. The war on terror is nothing more than America's attempt to secure the future of Israel and get a foothold in the CARs. The main threat to American domination is no longer Russia or even China but the oil rich M.E. If the wars stop Israel goes.

It's shame we haven't come up with an alternative fuel source so the M.E. could go back to being an inconsquential third world region full of religious fanatics.

Doing that would take away valuable funds needed for the war.