[wccftech] G-Sync for ASUS monitors only...others Q3 2014

[Will Robinson]

Actually, watching AMD try to catch Nvidia is like watching Wile E. Coyete try to catch the Road Runner :biggrin:

Seeing you admonished me for trolling(my own thread) perhaps you could refrain from further thread crapping on it hmm?:whiste:

 

[Cookie Monster]

1st off, there isn't really anything to vet out. When the monitors with it are available, they will work. It is just an extension of the current driver v-sync overrides. Once available, they work. The only thing that has to be worked out is getting it to a wider audience.

How well it spreads through the industry is another thing, and we'll have to just wait and see.

+1. This is pretty much it at this point in time. Rolling these out will indeed take some time.

 

[Concillian]

Yeah I thought this was the big counter to Mantle...the must have tech..least that was getting some here all giddy a day or so ago.:|

To be fair, it is pretty transformative tech. However, nVidia seems destined to bury it before it even takes off with this move.

Need volume for traction. Exclusivity is going to hurt volume big time.

I look forward to the tech in a couple years when we have a wide variety of monitors supporting it. As it stands though, it gets a pass. Can't handle going back to TN. I need a more flexible panel tech, as I don't game enough to take the color hit for a TN monitor.

 

[blackened23]

To be fair, it is pretty transformative tech. However, nVidia seems destined to bury it before it even takes off with this move.

Need volume for traction. Exclusivity is going to hurt volume big time.

I look forward to the tech in a couple years when we have a wide variety of monitors supporting it. As it stands though, it gets a pass. Can't handle going back to TN. I need a more flexible panel tech, as I don't game enough to take the color hit for a TN monitor.

I don't think it's going to be limited to TN based on NV's presentation at the Montreal event - They basically stated they're eyeing everything up to 4k with this technology, so i'd assume that they will also add it to IPS panels as well. I'm with you - I much prefer IPS myself.

That said, i'm not really feeling the Asus exclusivity. I will more or less state that Asus is not my first choice for a PC screen. Nor are they my second or third. I think the VG248QE is a great -gaming- monitor, but since I do everything including productivity on my screens, that makes it slightly less appealing. I'll probably buy one for g-sync as a tertiary screen (and won't use it for Windows stuff), but nonetheless - I really hope some IPS and 4k panels pick this up fairly quickly as well. I've grown to love the benefits of IPS and high resolution, and I can't see that changing anytime soon. Asus does have an AMVA 4k panel in the works for release Q1 2014, hopefully that will pick up G-sync whenever it's released.

 

[Teizo]

Seeing you admonished me for trolling(my own thread) perhaps you could refrain from further thread crapping on it hmm?:whiste:

You should try lightening up a bit. Good for the heart, and aids digestion.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

I don't like this in principle, but in practice I actually don't care too much.

Primarily because when it comes to cheap TN panels of a few hundred £/$ I honestly think it's more or less a solved problem, you're not going to find a TN monitor by another company that magically blows the Asus brands out the water, the difference is fairly negligible these days, it's kind of like worrying about who makes your NIC, it's basically a solved problem.

Maybe in the PVA or IPS spaces where you're spending around 1k you might care a lot more. Asus clearly paid well for exclusivity, no one else cared to match their offer to Nvidia so they get to reap the rewards of their investment, their exclusivity is only really possible because no other monitor provider really gave Nvidia the incentive to work with them.

But yeah, in principle I disagree with exclusivity, I'd prefer it release in a competitive environment but then it's not for too long 3 quarters or so.

 

[bystander36]

I don't like this in principle, but in practice I actually don't care too much.

Primarily because when it comes to cheap TN panels of a few hundred £/$ I honestly think it's more or less a solved problem, you're not going to find a TN monitor by another company that magically blows the Asus brands out the water, the difference is fairly negligible these days, it's kind of like worrying about who makes your NIC, it's basically a solved problem.

Maybe in the PVA or IPS spaces where you're spending around 1k you might care a lot more. Asus clearly paid well for exclusivity, no one else cared to match their offer to Nvidia so they get to reap the rewards of their investment, their exclusivity is only really possible because no other monitor provider really gave Nvidia the incentive to work with them.

But yeah, in principle I disagree with exclusivity, I'd prefer it release in a competitive environment but then it's not for too long 3 quarters or so.

By the way things were presented, Asus has exclusivity early on, because they happened to have a monitor that could easily be converted, and was the monitor they choose to prototype this tech with as a result. The others have to make bigger changes, so it'll take a little longer to get going.

Nvidia has reached out to Overlord monitors, because they believe they can get it to work with theirs too, which are the ones selling 120hz IPS monitors, so there is hope.

I want 3D Vision, Lightboost and G-sync, so I'll probably be going TN again, so I'll be happy either way, but it certainly doesn't sound as if it is going to be limited to TN.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I don't like this in principle, but in practice I actually don't care too much.

NVIDIA said G-SYNC can technically be added to IPS and VA panels, and also to 4K panels too. It is not intrinsically limited to TN panels. Stutters are reduced/eliminated during fluctuating frame rates, because object positions in each frames are already readjusted based on how early/late the frame will be shown to human eyes -- keeping frame content synchronous to the display of the refresh to the human eyes. I assure you they don't think it is a solved problem, as G-SYNC also belongs in HDMI 3.0. I even found one of the liveblogs mentioned that it would be good to approach HDMI to see if they can adopt it. G-SYNC, or similiar variable refresh rate technology, has other intrisinic benefits, other than variable refresh rates, too:

Reduced Latency of Fixed Refresh Rates: G-SYNC decouples frame delivery time from refresh length, and reduces scan-out time. Historically, 60Hz displays took at least 1/60sec to display frames. (High speed videos of top-to-bottom scan: CRT scanning, LCD scanning). Displaying a frame during 60Hz on a G-SYNC display takes only 1/144sec (the current maximum bandwidth). Each frame is displayed more instantaneously.

Future-Proof Variable Frame Rate Video: No fixed framerate limits. Imagine being able to play 24fps movies. HFR 48fps movies, television at a perfect 59.94Hz or 60.00Hz, perfect instant switch between 24fps, 30fps, 48fps, 60fps, with zero mode-switch flicker. Supporting future frame rates (e.g. 72fps) and unusual frame rates (e.g. silent films, 18fps).

....Also, there's no limit to what platform variable refresh rates go on. You just use the appropriate pre-existing API to finish a frame (e.g. OpenGL glFinish() or Direct3D Present()) of whatever platform, to immediately display the screen refresh without waiting for the next discrete refresh cycle.

Proprietary aside, It's intrinsically a technology that can belong on any display, on any platform, and we'd love NVIDIA to license it out, and eventually let it become a more open technology in the decade to come...

 

[Concillian]

NVIDIA said G-SYNC can technically be added to IPS and VA panels, and also to 4K panels too. It is not intrinsically limited to TN panels. Stutters are reduced/eliminated during fluctuating frame rates, because object positions in each frames are already readjusted based on how early/late the frame will be shown to human eyes -- keeping frame content synchronous to the display of the refresh to the human eyes. I assure you they don't think it is a solved problem, as G-SYNC also belongs in HDMI 3.0. I even found one of the liveblogs mentioned that it would be good to approach HDMI to see if they can adopt it. G-SYNC, or similiar variable refresh rate technology, has other intrisinic benefits, other than variable refresh rates, too:

Reduced Latency of Fixed Refresh Rates: G-SYNC decouples frame delivery time from refresh length, and reduces scan-out time. Historically, 60Hz displays took at least 1/60sec to display frames. (High speed videos of top-to-bottom scan: CRT scanning, LCD scanning). Displaying a frame during 60Hz on a G-SYNC display takes only 1/144sec (the current maximum bandwidth). Each frame is displayed more instantaneously.

Future-Proof Variable Frame Rate Video: No fixed framerate limits. Imagine being able to play 24fps movies. HFR 48fps movies, television at a perfect 59.94Hz or 60.00Hz, perfect instant switch between 24fps, 30fps, 48fps, 60fps, with zero mode-switch flicker. Supporting future frame rates (e.g. 72fps) and unusual frame rates (e.g. silent films, 18fps).

....Also, there's no limit to what platform variable refresh rates go on. You just use the appropriate pre-existing API to finish a frame (e.g. OpenGL glFinish() or Direct3D Present()) of whatever platform, to immediately display the screen refresh without waiting for the next discrete refresh cycle.

Proprietary aside, It's intrinsically a technology that can belong on any display, on any platform, and we'd love NVIDIA to license it out, and eventually let it become a more open technology in the decade to come...

Err... I'm pretty sure when he said "I don't like this in principle" he was talking about ASUS exclusivity. Yes, G-sync should be good for all the reasons you mentioned... however, I don't think any of that has any relevance to what you quoted.

 

[bystander36]

Err... I'm pretty sure when he said "I don't like this in principle" he was talking about ASUS exclusivity. Yes, G-sync should be good for all the reasons you mentioned... however, I don't think any of that has any relevance to what you quoted.

Where does it say ASUS has exclusivity? Just because they will be first to have an available monitor doesn't mean they were given special rights. They might have, but then again, it may just be a result of them using an Asus monitor as their prototype, so Asus is ahead of the game.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Err... I'm pretty sure when he said "I don't like this in principle" he was talking about ASUS exclusivity.

It's still decently relevant because the ASUS exclusivity isn't forever, and patents don't last forever (although sometimes it does seem to).

The technology is too intrinsically useful to permanently fade away, so demand from gamers will still be there even when exclusivity ends, and probably even when patent time ends, unless we've moved beyond discrete-refresh rates by then (e.g. exotic displays that don't operate on a refresh rate concept. Real life has no refresh rate).

 

[BrightCandle]

Nvidia announced 4 monitor companies for the release of Gsync, Asus just so happens to be the prototype monitor in which the module initially works. But we can expect monitors from Benq, Philips and ViewSonic as well. That was all in the initial announcement, any links saying otherwise are just FUD.

 

[tviceman]

Disappointing. So Gsync will be on as many monitors as games that support Mantle will have in 2014? Well that sucks for just about everyone.

 

[bystander36]

Disappointing. So Gsync will be on as many monitors as games that support Mantle will have in 2014? Well that sucks for just about everyone.

I'm not sure how you try to draw those two together. If you buy a Gsync monitor, it works on all games that allow force v-sync (I assume this is required).

Mantle isn't even a concern for us, it is a dev thing for a little more performance, unless they use it like PhysX, and add features. It is also only going to be on a few games, at least at first.

 

[Concillian]

Where does it say ASUS has exclusivity? Just because they will be first to have an available monitor doesn't mean they were given special rights. They might have, but then again, it may just be a result of them using an Asus monitor as their prototype, so Asus is ahead of the game.

The whole point of the OP is that ASUS has 1 year exclusivity to G-sync monitors. Did you read the link in the first post?

 

[bystander36]

The whole point of the OP is that ASUS has 1 year exclusivity to G-sync monitors. Did you read the link in the first post?

Previous articles had not said of a deal, but it is 6 months, not a year.

 

[ams23]

I expect G-Sync to show up next year not just in external monitors but also in ultra-mobile devices. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

NVIDIA said G-SYNC can technically be added to IPS and VA panels, and also to 4K panels too.

I never said otherwise. I'm saying that being limited to only Asus for TN panels is not really a problem because there's so little difference between TN panels these days, and they're a cheap solution to begin with, so quality isn't great, that it doesn't really matter it's limited to Asus for 3 quarters or whatever it is.

It's not as though you're going to go out and find a TN producer that's making substantially better or cheaper panels than Asus are. You might expect that of IPS or PVA panels where quality is a much greater concern and your spend is likely to be at least twice that of a TN panel.

The reason I say this is most serious gamers interested in low latency non-tearing are going to want to roll with fast TN, more than likely 120hz panels and I suspect that the relatively slow pixel response times of IPS panels is going to make this technology more restricted, you can't simply update the panel as fast as you'd like you're limited by the pixel response time or you'll suffer inaccurate colours.

 

[BrightCandle]

It is classical Nvidia to pull this kind of stunt. Presumably its payment for help in developing the module for the prototype monitor. But the issue I have is its anti competitive, and I said before I would be mighty angry with Nvidia if they did I anything to stop the market as a whole using this, and well they went and did exactly that.

I don't know how credible the source and the sources source is on this but its not good news if it's true. I think pcper need to call Tom back and ask him that question direct because if it is I feel we were lied to in the presentation Nvidia gave. Its not right to say that they are releasing with 4 monitor manufacturers in Q1 when that is only true of Asus.

Asus while not making terrible monitors is far from a whole market place of choices. Gsync needs to have choices to be available to all manufacturers both GPU and monitors to succeed and this is the sort of stupid market manipulation that Nvidia likes to do to put great technology ideas on life support.

 

[AnMig]

If they wait that long it will hopefully give the modders a chance to clone it.
It should be available in dealextreme.com in 2 months after it is released.

I really hope they can make this available faster. With this enabled we no longer have to chase >60 fps for a smooth came experience.

 

[bystander36]

One of the things that was talked about early in the FCAT talks, that has not been talked about with G-sync, is how well it should help animation keep accurate pace with the game engine. Having inconsistent delays between frame creation and it being refreshed on the screen can lead to the time animation not being perfectly smooth. Now that the refresh is done in unison with the GPU's frame creations, animation should be more accurate with the engine times.

 

[Grooveriding]

If they wait that long it will hopefully give the modders a chance to clone it.
It should be available in dealextreme.com in 2 months after it is released.

I really hope they can make this available faster. With this enabled we no longer have to chase >60 fps for a smooth came experience.

I'm expecting, as well as hoping, this will happen as well. Some intelligent folks are going to find a way to patch drivers/EDID to make it work on any video card with a display port. As well as someone knocking off the module and seeing them start being adapted to all kinds of existing monitors where possible.

I'm hoping this will happen because it will force the hand of making this available without restriction, as well as accelerate it to actually being something to consider using without waiting for a few years.

 

[Concillian]

Previous articles had not said of a deal, but it is 6 months, not a year.

Today it is q313, the article says the exclusivity is until q314. That's a year... Okay, at this point 11 months, but whatever. It's way more than 6.

 

[bystander36]

Today it is q313, the article says the exclusivity is until q314. That's a year... Okay, at this point 11 months, but whatever. It's way more than 6.

But Asus will not have theirs until q114. That is 2 quarters of availability before their are others.