[WCCF] Intel Skylake 2015 Platform Details Revealed

[SlickR12345]

Maybe you should sharpen your reading comprehension skills. The iGPU is designed for ultrabooks and super small form factors (such as the Brix Pro), AIOs, and portable ultrabooks. They were never meant to replace desktop GPUs. At some point, iGPUs will converge will mobile dGPUs because the pace of progress with iGPU is far faster than that of mobile dGPUs. But if you feel you can throw a GTX 780ti into a Brix Pro within the same size constraints as the Iris Pro die size contained within, well okay if you say so. You're just oblivious to the bigger picture for which the iGPU is designed. It was designed at the suggestion of Apple for their mobile macbooks, that is why intel invested into the iGPU originally. And they've made significant strides with their mobile graphics performance, in fact they have the fastest mobile graphics performance at this time. The fact that Iris Pro as a mobile form factor is trading blows with a desktop level 7850k? Mobile chip versus desktop chip, roughly same performance, trading blows. What does that imply in terms of how well intel is progressing in graphics performance?

But if you live in the desktop only world where AIOs, SFF, ultrabooks, macbooks, and mac mini/brix pro devices don't exist, yeah, a dGPU is obviously better. Thanks for reminding us again, no one said otherwise. But good luck fitting your dGPU into a mac mini or Brix Pro inside of that size constraint. That's why intel designed the iGPU. They didn't design it for your 3 foot tall ATX case, even though some SKUs have it for free. It was designed for mobile at the suggestion of Apple, and apple was willing to pay the big bucks for integrated graphics that did not compromise CPU performance or performance per watt.

This is completely beside the point that most people buying macbooks and ultrabooks aren't gamers at all. It's neat that you view everything and anything through the lens of gaming. I assure you, the bigger market for mobile macbooks and ultrabooks aren't 100% gamers that expect to play crysis 3 at 1080p/60 fps. And they aren't 100% desktop users.

Everything you wrote is basically a lie. Plus mac something what? I've never heard of mac hardware here is Europe, perhaps that is state only company that sells in several US states?

But Igpu's are low value even with laptops, again, good for 2 year old games at med to high mixed settings, but if you want to run newer games at resolutions above 1024x you need a descrete GPU.

The only good thing about them is they will be forcing low-upper end graphics to be cheaper at $150, like we may see R270x at $150 type performance since the discrete $100 will need to be more price-performance competitive!

 

[tential]

Everything you wrote is basically a lie. Plus mac something what? I've never heard of mac hardware here is Europe, perhaps that is state only company that sells in several US states?

But Igpu's are low value even with laptops, again, good for 2 year old games at med to high mixed settings, but if you want to run newer games at resolutions above 1024x you need a descrete GPU.

The only good thing about them is they will be forcing low-upper end graphics to be cheaper at $150, like we may see R270x at $150 type performance since the discrete $100 will need to be more price-performance competitive!

You've never heard of a mac?
You've never heard of Apple?

How can we take you seriously if you've never heard of a Mac.....

You've seriously never heard of this?
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

 

[blackened23]

Everything you wrote is basically a lie. Plus mac something what? I've never heard of mac hardware here is Europe, perhaps that is state only company that sells in several US states?

But Igpu's are low value even with laptops, again, good for 2 year old games at med to high mixed settings, but if you want to run newer games at resolutions above 1024x you need a descrete GPU.

The only good thing about them is they will be forcing low-upper end graphics to be cheaper at $150, like we may see R270x at $150 type performance since the discrete $100 will need to be more price-performance competitive!

You're still talking about desktop and iGPU, an unintended market for iGPU. It's essentially something for free, but it was designed for ultrabooks and (first and foremost) macbooks.

And you haven't heard of Apple or macs. I just don't know what to say. But then again I don't know what kind of isolated world you live in. Maybe your country which has North Korea type isolation that doesn't let outside products in and that's why you haven't heard of macs. LOL. Otherwise I can't see how anyone would be that oblivious.

 

[blackened23]

Everything you wrote is basically a lie. Plus mac something what? I've never heard of mac hardware here is Europe, perhaps that is state only company that sells in several US states?

But Igpu's are low value even with laptops, again, good for 2 year old games at med to high mixed settings, but if you want to run newer games at resolutions above 1024x you need a descrete GPU.

The only good thing about them is they will be forcing low-upper end graphics to be cheaper at $150, like we may see R270x at $150 type performance since the discrete $100 will need to be more price-performance competitive!

You're still talking about DESKTOPS for some reason. An unintended market for iGPU. It's essentially something for free, but it was designed first and foremost for ultrabooks and macbooks. Also for SFF, AIO, and other form factors which do not lend themselves to huge desktop discrete GPUs. In fact, intel originally created the iGPU at the suggestion of Apple for their macbook products, and apple was willing to pay them the big bucks for just that. And on that note, across Apple's product line, iGPU has already displaced mobile dGPU across the vast majority of their products. The Iris Pro is reasonably close to the kepler 650M, and Apple is using that in some of their macbook pros.

What's the side effect of not having a mobile dGPU? More battery life, longer battery life, better performance per watt. Now NV made some incredible strides with Maxwell and I can't help but think that 2nd gen Maxwell will be pretty amazing for mobile. Nonetheless the point stands. iGPU lends itself to mobile because it has better performance per watt than CPU + mobile dGPU in nearly all instances. That means your ultrabook or macbook will last longer on a charge, case in point: a macbook air lasts nearly 12 hours on a single charge during normal use.

Oh but wait. You don't know who Apple is. Oh. Okay. I just don't know what to say. Except that's pretty funny. Maybe your country is walled off (figuratively) to the outside world like North Korea or something.

I don't even know what your issue is. Maybe reading comprehension. Not a single person ever said to replace your DESKTOP GPU with iGPU. Yet you keep bringing these SILLY desktop discrete GPU comparisons. Such as the 270X. No joke, the 270X is faster. Yeah i'm sure that 270X would be amazing in an ultrabook right. iGPU was and is designed primarily for mobile for better battery life. Period.

 

[Shivansps]

I dont agree on that one, AMD and Intel are fighting to get the "good enoght" approval on Desktop IGPs, the difference is that, until a few years ago Intel did not cared about gaming or even multimedia.

The "good enoght" IGP has been a very important issue on Desktop PC, remember SIS? it may seem like a crappy little thing now, but they sold A LOT of those SIS 530/630/7xx, the 530 was the very first IGP ever if i remember right, and it sold a lot.

Nvidia and Intel came along after that with their own solutions, and nForce 2 IGP was the first one to provide a IGP that was gaming capable.

After a while GF6100 IGP arrived and i remember that many people where suprised, them 780G came along shocking people.

All those things, SIS 530, nForce 2, the crappy Intel extremes, GF6100 and 780G changed Desktop as we know it, you guys are trying to ignore all of that because "if cant play Crysis 3 at 1080P@60fps its useless" and it does not work like that.

 

[pw257008]

I dont agree on that one, AMD and Intel are fighting to get the "good enoght" approval on Desktop IGPs, the difference is that, until a few years ago Intel did not cared about gaming or even multimedia.

The "good enoght" IGP has been a very important issue on Desktop PC, remember SIS? it may seem like a crappy little thing now, but they sold A LOT of those SIS 530/630/7xx, the 530 was the very first IGP ever if i remember right, and it sold a lot.

Nvidia and Intel came along after that with their own solutions, and nForce 2 IGP was the first one to provide a IGP that was gaming capable.

After a while GF6100 IGP arrived and i remember that many people where suprised, them 780G came along shocking people.

All those things, SIS 530, nForce 2, the crappy Intel extremes, GF6100 and 780G changed Desktop as we know it, you guys are trying to ignore all of that because "if cant play Crysis 3 at 1080P@60fps its useless" and it does not work like that.

:thumbsup:

 

[SlickR12345]

You're still talking about DESKTOPS for some reason. An unintended market for iGPU. It's essentially something for free, but it was designed first and foremost for ultrabooks and macbooks. Also for SFF, AIO, and other form factors which do not lend themselves to huge desktop discrete GPUs. In fact, intel originally created the iGPU at the suggestion of Apple for their macbook products, and apple was willing to pay them the big bucks for just that. And on that note, across Apple's product line, iGPU has already displaced mobile dGPU across the vast majority of their products. The Iris Pro is reasonably close to the kepler 650M, and Apple is using that in some of their macbook pros.

What's the side effect of not having a mobile dGPU? More battery life, longer battery life, better performance per watt. Now NV made some incredible strides with Maxwell and I can't help but think that 2nd gen Maxwell will be pretty amazing for mobile. Nonetheless the point stands. iGPU lends itself to mobile because it has better performance per watt than CPU + mobile dGPU in nearly all instances. That means your ultrabook or macbook will last longer on a charge, case in point: a macbook air lasts nearly 12 hours on a single charge during normal use.

Oh but wait. You don't know who Apple is. Oh. Okay. I just don't know what to say. Except that's pretty funny. Maybe your country is walled off (figuratively) to the outside world like North Korea or something.

I don't even know what your issue is. Maybe reading comprehension. Not a single person ever said to replace your DESKTOP GPU with iGPU. Yet you keep bringing these SILLY desktop discrete GPU comparisons. Such as the 270X. No joke, the 270X is faster. Yeah i'm sure that 270X would be amazing in an ultrabook right. iGPU was and is designed primarily for mobile for better battery life. Period.

Everything you write is completely false.

Plus I've never seen any Apple computer sold, probably because the only thing Apple sell in Europe is the Iphone and nothing much and no wonder, I've checked out the mac or whatever offerings and they are basically overpriced medium level PC.

But to the point Igpu's are worthless for laptops as well, laptops last time I checked have the same games, its the same gameplay, same graphics just in smaller form factor, so the same Igpu's that suck for gaming on desktop also suck for gaming on laptop.

As far as tablets who cares? They are like less than 0.5% of the overall hardware sells.

Okay, this is getting absurd. You: stop trolling. Everyone else: please get back to the Skylake discussion.
-ViRGE

 

[witeken]

Everything you write is completely false.

Plus I've never seen any Apple computer sold, probably because the only thing Apple sell in Europe is the Iphone and nothing much and no wonder, I've checked out the mac or whatever offerings and they are basically overpriced medium level PC.

But to the point Igpu's are worthless for laptops as well, laptops last time I checked have the same games, its the same gameplay, same graphics just in smaller form factor, so the same Igpu's that suck for gaming on desktop also suck for gaming on laptop.

As far as tablets who cares? They are like less than 0.5% of the overall hardware sells.

When I read things as "tablets are less then 0.5% of the overall hardware sells", I think that is a quite hypocritical statement to say the least. It's also not true that laptop have the same graphics. Inferior hardware (there are no laptops with 300W GPUs) means inferior graphics. If you make IGPs to be competitive for up to mid-end laptops, then if you put those same IGPs in desktops, your GPUs will hardly be able to compete even against the low-end of dGPUs.

I also think you're quite uninformed about Apple. I'm not an Apple fan, but you can't ignore that Apple is quite popular and has a decent market share.

 

[Enigmoid]

Everything you write is completely false.

Plus I've never seen any Apple computer sold, probably because the only thing Apple sell in Europe is the Iphone and nothing much and no wonder, I've checked out the mac or whatever offerings and they are basically overpriced medium level PC.

But to the point Igpu's are worthless for laptops as well, laptops last time I checked have the same games, its the same gameplay, same graphics just in smaller form factor, so the same Igpu's that suck for gaming on desktop also suck for gaming on laptop.

As far as tablets who cares? They are like less than 0.5% of the overall hardware sells.

I am astounded by this post. Just a remark but I can't take anything you say now seriously.

Even in 2011 Apple was selling 1M macbooks in western europe.

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/1847115

And while you are perfectly right that macbooks are overpriced medium level pc they sell quite well in their market segment and are sufficient for most people.

Igp's are very worthwhile for laptops. They dramatically reduce idle power usage allowing for longer runtimes or smaller batteries. Laptops also (the cheap ones) tend to run lower resolution screens and people in general on notebooks do not tend to be as picky about settings (will it run on minimum? Good).

Tablets are now a massive fraction of the market. Apple for instance sells more than 15 million ipads a quarter.

 

[blackened23]

Everything you write is completely false.

Plus I've never seen any Apple computer sold, probably because the only thing Apple sell in Europe is the Iphone and nothing much and no wonder, I've checked out the mac or whatever offerings and they are basically overpriced medium level PC.

But to the point Igpu's are worthless for laptops as well, laptops last time I checked have the same games, its the same gameplay, same graphics just in smaller form factor, so the same Igpu's that suck for gaming on desktop also suck for gaming on laptop.

As far as tablets who cares? They are like less than 0.5% of the overall hardware sells.

LOL. Tablets .5%. Apple sells "nothing much". Thanks for making it clear that nothing you post should ever be taken seriously.

 

[ninaholic37]

But to the point Igpu's are worthless for laptops as well, laptops last time I checked have the same games, its the same gameplay, same graphics just in smaller form factor, so the same Igpu's that suck for gaming on desktop also suck for gaming on laptop.

There are laptops with dGPUs. In general, they are a lot heavier/bulkier, have around 2 hours battery life, and get a lot hotter. I wouldn't want one personally, especially because they're called "lap" tops (that you can put on your lap comfortably), not "desk" tops. If that is what you want though, get a "lap" top with a dGPU.

 

[witeken]

The Wikipedia specs of Skylake are quite interesting. Too bad no source is mentioned for some, like for cache:

128 KB L1 cache (64 KB 16-way set associative instruction cache + 64 KB 16-way set associative data cache) (2 cycles)[citation needed]
512 KB L2 cache, 16-way set associative (6 cycles)[citation needed]
12 MB L3 cache, 24-way set associative (12 cycles)[citation needed]

It feels like it's been a long time since the last architecture deep dive, I hope we at least get a Gen8 architecture overview at Computex.

 

[SAAA]

The Wikipedia specs of Skylake are quite interesting. Too bad no source is mentioned for some, like for cache:

128 KB L1 cache (64 KB 16-way set associative instruction cache + 64 KB 16-way set associative data cache) (2 cycles)[citation needed]
512 KB L2 cache, 16-way set associative (6 cycles)[citation needed]
12 MB L3 cache, 24-way set associative (12 cycles)[citation needed]

It feels like it's been a long time since the last architecture deep dive, I hope we at least get a Gen8 architecture overview at Computex.

I looked a while back at those too, interesting because they haven't increased caches that much since Pentium-core jump, beside reorganizing them with nehalem in 3 levels anyway. Could it mean, if true, that they are increasing the core size and thus need more memory/bandwidth to not have bottlenecks?

 

[rockfella79]

Subscribed! Waiting fro Skylake..

 

[Fjodor2001]

Some Skylake performance benchmarks:

Original source:
http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2764_sky...nd_gpgpu_performance_figures_at_sisoft_sandra

WCCF:
http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-benchmarks-leaked-sisoftware-sandra/

 

[Arachnotronic]

Some Skylake performance benchmarks:

Original source:
http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2764_sky...nd_gpgpu_performance_figures_at_sisoft_sandra

WCCF:
http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-benchmarks-leaked-sisoftware-sandra/

Nice find, Fjodor2001. Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[mikk]

Not really meaningful though because of the unknown frequencies, low ES clocked surely.

 

[TreVader]

Not really meaningful though because of the unknown frequencies, low ES clocked surely.

Says 2.3Ghz Engineering Sample


Anybody know how 91.8GOPS @ 2.3GHz compares to Broadwell or Haswell?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Says 2.3Ghz Engineering Sample


Anybody know how 91.8GOPS @ 2.3GHz compares to Broadwell or Haswell?

But you dont know if there is turbo or not. Or what memory etc its paired with.

Also you can search the result database.

 

[bronxzv]

void

 

[mikk]

Says 2.3Ghz Engineering Sample


Anybody know how 91.8GOPS @ 2.3GHz compares to Broadwell or Haswell?

GPU frequency is unknown.

 

[KingstonU]

Damn it, this is going to give me the urge to wait another 6 months. Haswell Refresh was underwhelming and Broadwell simply disappeared into thin air.

 

[III-V]

Unfortunately, bandwidth is rather meaningless.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Memory bandwidth is perhaps not the most important metric, but to call it meaningless is not serious either.

Also, if you read the articles, you notice that it's not only memory bandwidth that is being benchmarked.

 

[Ajay]

Not enough solid info yet, as is typical with ES CPUs/mobos. Last I read, Skylake was supposed to have LP-DDR3 (as appears to be the case above) and DDR4 memory support. I really hope Skylake will beat Haswell visa vi overclocked performance.