[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

[Silverforce11]

Do we have any evidence that GloFo's node is "better" than TSMC's?

Both AMD & GF have publicly presented (official videos, presentations, conferences) their superior node tech. Whether its true or not, we will know soon enough when we compare Grenada vs Hawaii.

 

[rainy]

Do we have any evidence that GloFo's node is "better" than TSMC's?

I think, I've seen slide (maybe even here on AT forum) on which they've promised 20 percent power consumption reduction on the same performance vs 28nm of TSMC.

A new revision of Hawaii (Grenada?) could be quite interesting as proposal if priced accordingly.

 

[Enigmoid]

If amd moves to a new node and respins Hawaii they might as well just completely launch a new die. Otherwise it makes little financial sense.

Or perhaps I'm phrasing it wrong. It would be a completely new gpu like Tonga is vs. Tahiti.

 

[Stuka87]

If amd moves to a new node and respins Hawaii they might as well just completely launch a new die. Otherwise it makes little financial sense.

Or perhaps I'm phrasing it wrong. It would be a completely new gpu like Tonga is vs. Tahiti.

The respun Hawaii is rumored to be called Grenada. Its still 28nm, but built by GloFlo instead of TSMC.

 

[krumme]

The respun Hawaii is rumored to be called Grenada. Its still 28nm, but built by GloFlo instead of TSMC.

The 28nm name means next to nothing - its just a label. Its a completely new process and its expensive to port a design even when its highly synthesized.

 

[xpea]

Radeon Fury?
http://videocardz.com/55763/amd-fiji-to-be-codenamed-radeon-fury

I hope for AMD, that this time, Fury cards will come out better than the old one that had terrible driver support and very bad reputation...

 

[maddie]

The 28nm name means next to nothing - its just a label. Its a completely new process and its expensive to port a design even when its highly synthesized.

But do you agree that it would have been even more costly to to a complete redesign? Cost/benefit ratio. With their limited resources, AMD must be finishing up a large part of the next gen designs now.

 

[SPBHM]

AMD also made more or less the same GPU (GCN) at GloFo inside the Kaveri APUs?
so maybe it helps with the process

 

[beginner99]

Do we have any evidence that GloFo's node is "better" than TSMC's?

Beema/mullins review. They were ported from TSMC (Kabini/Temash) to GF with some very minor changes.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...hitecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview

AMD claims a 19% reduction in core leakage/static current for Puma+ compared to Jaguar at 1.2V, and a 38% reduction for the GPU. The drop in leakage directly contributes to a substantially lower power profile for Beema and Mullins.

So 38% lower leakage is substantial.

 

[swilli89]

Beema/mullins review. They were ported from TSMC (Kabini/Temash) to GF with some very minor changes.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...hitecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview



So 38% lower leakage is substantial.

Yeah this could be huge! Honestly I'm just as excited for Grenada as I am Fiji. If GF libraries are denser I wonder if amd could have just added 256 more shaders to the design

 

[jamesgalb]

standing by my predictions

Hawaii respun with more compute units, more processors, 8gb, and a higher clock, will blow people away... It will seriously challenge the 980ti by itself, no Fiji needed (I assume this has been a fall-back plan for them as Fiji has seemingly been a challenge)

The real shocker will be Tonga. I expect the fully enabled Tonga with 4gb to rival a 970/980 and absolutely blow away a 960...

 

[jamesgalb]

Yeah this could be huge! Honestly I'm just as excited for Grenada as I am Fiji. If GF libraries are denser I wonder if amd could have just added 256 more shaders to the design

I'm expecting 256 more steam processors, 8 more compute units, 16 more texture mapping units, 4gb more ram, and 100mhz more clock speed... at the same 300w, or maybe even lower.

 

[crisium]

Forget Fury. If they want it to sell by name call it the Radeon 9700 Pro.

Spoiler

Or Radeon X395XTX PE

 

[Glo.]

standing by my predictions

Hawaii respun with more compute units, more processors, 8gb, and a higher clock, will blow people away... It will seriously challenge the 980ti by itself, no Fiji needed (I assume this has been a fall-back plan for them as Fiji has seemingly been a challenge)

The real shocker will be Tonga. I expect the fully enabled Tonga with 4gb to rival a 970/980 and absolutely blow away a 960...

To add to that Tonga technology with couple of tweaks.

I have a theory, that Tonga was really a technical preview to test that technology in real world, how it will behave. And now we will see it in other GPUs.

3072 GCN cores, 512 Bit memory bus with 384 GB/s and Tonga technology. That would be huge. Lets hope that were not hyping that card too much...

 

[swilli89]

To add to that Tonga technology with couple of tweaks.

I have a theory, that Tonga was really a technical preview to test that technology in real world, how it will behave. And now we will see it in other GPUs.

3072 GCN cores, 512 Bit memory bus with 384 GB/s and Tonga technology. That would be huge. Lets hope that were not hyping that card too much...

Thing is, with Tongas memory compression tech, 384 bit memory interface ought to be right in line with what it would take to keep 3000 or so tonga shades fed and happy. Smaller bus like this would also help amd remain at healthy margins too

 

[Cloudfire777]

Come down to earth, please.

Full Hawaii got 2816 shaders. Where will they get the extra 200+ shaders from? Its not a Hawaii at all if it had 3000+ shaders. Its a different chip.

Full Tonga have 2048 shaders. A 2816 Hawaii can`t beat a GTX 980. How on earth would a Tonga challenge a GTX 980?

Radeon Fury will take on GTX 980Ti/GTX Titan X and now you think a Hawaii would have a chance?

We have already seen benchmarks from 390X. It must be a pure Hawaii rebrand. It have 50MHz higher clocks (+5%) than R9 290X and scored +7% more than R9 290X in Firestrike Extreme. No better increase in performance per shader.
Whats unknown is if the efficiency have gone up, ie if TDP/power have gone down.

Fiji XT can`t have 4096bit and 8GB HBM. 1 stack = 1024. 8 of them would have 8196bit. The only way to increase HBM capacity is to increase height of the stack. The only HBM chips available at the moment is 1GB HBM stacks. Which AMD and a ton of tech sites covered pretty extensively in the introduction weeks ago. This isnt GDDR5 where you have one memory controller connected to several GDDR5 chips (HBM stacks). That was the solution to overcome the capacity problem with GDDR5. You either have 4x1GB and 4096bit or you have 8x1GB and 8196bit for the moment.
We know Radeon Fury is 4GB/4096bit. From sisoftware and from AMD`s defence of 4GB HBM being enough and that they worked on the memory management within drivers and Windows OS to ensure that.

Nah, this year AMD will have rebrands and Fiji card (hopefully cards). Take your pick

 

[Glo.]

Because if a card is made on new process, and has more features, even if its the same core count then no, its not exactly the same chip.

Look at Tonga and cut down Tahiti. Similar core count, different chips.

The same would go for Hawaii/Grenada.

Also, it is quite funny. Hawaii belongs to Vulkanic Islands, as Tahiti, Tonga, Fiji, etc.

Grenada is Caribbean Island. So it has to have different technology.

 

[swilli89]

Because if a card is made on new process, and has more features, even if its the same core count then no, its not exactly the same chip.

Look at Tonga and cut down Tahiti. Similar core count, different chips.

The same would go for Hawaii/Grenada.

Yeah *certain* people wanting to take a crap on the whole parade by spewing out "REBRAND REBRAND REBRAND" like a broken record.

The rest of us can ignore this as its as simple as the fact that its not even called Hawaii anymore! If indeed Grenada is the replacement the "discussion" can stop right there! No need to go into the fact that its on a different node, memory arrangement, and possibly different core count.

I'm not saying its 100% not a rebrand, but please stop spewing this nonsense like its a fact. We simply don't know and we are speculating about what makes the most sense to us as enthusiasts!

 

[ZipSpeed]

Yeah *certain* people wanting to take a crap on the whole parade by spewing out "REBRAND REBRAND REBRAND" like a broken record.

The rest of us can ignore this as its as simple as the fact that its not even called Hawaii anymore! If indeed Grenada is the replacement the "discussion" can stop right there! No need to go into the fact that its on a different node, memory arrangement, and possibly different core count.

I'm not saying its 100% not a rebrand, but please stop spewing this nonsense like its a fact. We simply don't know and we are speculating about what makes the most sense to us as enthusiasts!

Speculating is also what keeps this forum alive and fun! It would be crickets in here otherwise. That said, I would love to see a revised Hawaii to replace my aging 7950. Fury will probably be outside what I'm willing to pay.

 

[boozzer]

Speculating is also what keeps this forum alive and fun! It would be crickets in here otherwise. That said, I would love to see a revised Hawaii to replace my aging 7950. Fury will probably be outside what I'm willing to pay.

speculation and crapping on an unreleased gpu is very, very different.

 

[Glo.]

http://www.computerbase.de/2013-10/amd-radeon-r9-290x-test/15/

So with that bandwith R9 290X without new process, new features would be 4% faster in general. And with R9 390X we will get 5% higher core clock, and new features.


With that in mind, im not sure the 3dMark Fire"something" score is really relevant.

 

[96Firebird]

I like how some people are telling others they can only post hopeful, cheery rumors, or else they consider it "thread-crapping".

 

[swilli89]

Speculating is also what keeps this forum alive and fun! It would be crickets in here otherwise. That said, I would love to see a revised Hawaii to replace my aging 7950. Fury will probably be outside what I'm willing to pay.

There are some fantastic deals around for 290Xs with custom cooling. I nabbed an XFX 290x that seems whisper quiet to me for less than $300. The thing about this "refreshed hawaii/grenada" or whatever its called is that its extremely price sensitive. AMD has a golden opportunity here to cater to gamers like you. Its a pretty much lost sale to AMD if you go and buy a cheaper 290x after they release their new card as they have already made money off of them once they are just sitting in the channel so its vital that whatever comes in at ~$300 needs to definitively usurp it.

speculation and crapping on an unreleased gpu is very, very different.

I think he was actually sort of agreeing with what you and I are saying

 

[RussianSensation]

http://www.computerbase.de/2013-10/amd-radeon-r9-290x-test/15/

So with that bandwith R9 290X without new process, new features would be 4% faster in general. And with R9 390X we will get 5% higher core clock, and new features.

But remember that a lot of sites tested R9 290X reference with Auto fan or on Quiet mode where it still throttled over time.

An after-market R9 290X with 1030mhz is 15% faster at 1080P and 1440P and than a reference 290X at Computerbase.

Based on Computerbase's testing, they have a 1030mhz 290X 8-10% slower than a reference 980. Once nV releases the 980Ti, 980's price could be lowered $50-100. That will put a lot of pressure on the 390X with 1050mhz clocks. AMD will have the ability to gauge where 980's price is once 980Ti launches next week. The profit margin on a 980 is probably so high that NV could sell them for $399 if it wanted to and still make good $. Things are really tough for AMD this generation since outside of Fiji cards none of their other products get a brand new architecture like Kepler -> Maxwell and they don't get HBM1 either. I have a feeling AMD will be forced to compete on price/performance for R9 300 level of cards until next gen.

 

[Azix]

Whats a full hawaii anyway? If they had more density to work with how hard would it be to fit in more while keeping the same architecture? A "full" chip just seems like the maximum they could accomplish with that architecture on that particular process. It's not some hard fact of reality.

though none of these chips are really rebrands if they are made on a different process, are they?

You keep saying the same stuff over and over. AMD did not defend 4GB so much as say the size of the buffer is not all they are concerned with. You and those using that quote to say this are simply interpreting how you want and completely ignoring the fact that it was said you could have more than 4 stacks. How much clearer do you need it to be than that? You ignore a definite statement and pick what you can interpret your way instead.

Its an engineering problem to fix at most. You don't know whether or not they have a means to do 8GB HBM if that problem really did exist. I'd be more inclined to think the fiji pro is 4GB or both fiji xt and pro 4GB with the wce being 8GB.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37433037&postcount=1260

Some people are just ignoring things and saying w/e they want.