[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

[happy medium]

"PRO" is part of the AMD cut chip naming lineup. Full chip = XT, cut a little = PRO, cut even more = LE, CE. These suffixes are not found in actual product marketing names, but in the codenames of the chips.

I don't think the poster above meant that "Fury Pro" would be the actual name of the product, just that since not every Fiji will come out right, it makes sense for them to have a slightly weaker, cut down product. I agree in this assessment -- there will almost certainly be a Fiji PRO. Under which marketing name this will end up is less certain.

I thought this is whats being released. Never heard of or even a rumor of a cut down Fury(Fiji).

This is how I see the lineup by the end of the summer and estimated prices.

Fury (Fiji) (4gb HBM) vs Titan =800 to 1000$
390x (xt) rebrand 290x with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980ti =650$
390 (pro) rebrand 290 with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980=425$
380x (full tonga? higher clocks/lower TDP) vs gtx970 =300$
380 (rebranded 285 with 4gb) vs 3gb gtx960ti =250$
370x rebrand vs gtx960 =175$

Note: every tier AMD will be slower than their Nvidia counterpart but cheaper in price.

 

[Red Hawk]

Apple pays better than AIBs? Full Tongas currently go into Radeon R9 M295Xs (4GB), which are found in top model iMacs. The new retina iMacs were a surprise hit, beating sales predictions and still selling strong 7 months later, significantly raising the ASP of the Mac division.

We don't have solid numbers on how many retina iMacs are actually specced out with the better GPU, but I would not be surprised if the reason we don't have full Tongas simply that early on, Apple absorbed enough of them to not leave supply for an AIB product.

I very much expect a full Tonga in the 300 lineup.

Ok, that sort of makes sense, I wasn't fully aware of that situation. Still sucks for DIY buyers though.

 

[Glo.]

https://twitter.com/AMD/status/604690097661988864

Well, we will see really soon what will happen.

 

[Hitman928]

I thought this is whats being released. Never heard of or even a rumor of a cut down Fury(Fiji).

This is how I see the lineup by the end of the summer and estimated prices.

Fury (Fiji) (4gb HBM) vs Titan =800 to 1000$
390x (xt) rebrand 290x with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980ti =650$
390 (pro) rebrand 290 with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980=425$
380x (full tonga? higher clocks/lower TDP) vs gtx970 =300$
380 (rebranded 285 with 4gb) vs 3gb gtx960ti =250$
370x rebrand vs gtx960 =175$

Note: every tier AMD will be slower than their Nvidia counterpart but cheaper in price.

There have been "leaks" of a cut down fiji. Don't have time to find it now, but in the leak it showed 20% performance lead over a 980 at slightly higher power usage. I'm not saying it's legit, just that the rumor has been out there. Without a Fiji Pro, it would also leave an insanely large gap between the 390x and Fury if the current rumors hold true (40-50% gap). There are also bound to be dies where not all 4096 shaders are functional and so creating a cut down sku will help AMD save a lot of money. There's lots of logical reasons why a Fiji Pro most likely exists, though obviously nothing is confirmed.

 

[96Firebird]

https://twitter.com/AMD/status/604690097661988864

Well, we will see really soon what will happen.

ASRock makes motherboards, not video cards... Unless they are expanding into video cards, it is probably not about the 300 series or Fiji...

 

[Hitman928]

ASRock makes motherboards, not video cards... Unless they are expanding into video cards, it is probably not about the 300 series or Fiji...

That was my thought as well, though they do make monitors also. It could be something to do with freesync, or they might be expanding.

 

[exar333]

I thought this is whats being released. Never heard of or even a rumor of a cut down Fury(Fiji).

This is how I see the lineup by the end of the summer and estimated prices.

Fury (Fiji) (4gb HBM) vs Titan =800 to 1000$
390x (xt) rebrand 290x with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980ti =650$
390 (pro) rebrand 290 with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980=425$
380x (full tonga? higher clocks/lower TDP) vs gtx970 =300$
380 (rebranded 285 with 4gb) vs 3gb gtx960ti =250$
370x rebrand vs gtx960 =175$

Note: every tier AMD will be slower than their Nvidia counterpart but cheaper in price.

If this is true, the 390 and 390x will be DOA. Just get a 290 or 290x now for 1/2 or 1/3 the price. Not happening...

 

[sze5003]

That's a bummer no dvi ports at all I wasn't planning on getting a new monitor.

 

[jackstar7]

That's a bummer no dvi ports at all I wasn't planning on getting a new monitor.

Get an adapter?

 

[tential]

I thought this is whats being released. Never heard of or even a rumor of a cut down Fury(Fiji).

This is how I see the lineup by the end of the summer and estimated prices.

Fury (Fiji) (4gb HBM) vs Titan =800 to 1000$
390x (xt) rebrand 290x with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980ti =650$
390 (pro) rebrand 290 with higher clocks/lower TDP vs gtx980=425$
380x (full tonga? higher clocks/lower TDP) vs gtx970 =300$
380 (rebranded 285 with 4gb) vs 3gb gtx960ti =250$
370x rebrand vs gtx960 =175$

Note: every tier AMD will be slower than their Nvidia counterpart but cheaper in price.

It also comes down to WHEN you benchmark a game. A number of times(maybe even more?) AMD performance significantly improves later down the line. So for those of us who don't play every game the second it comes out (How people have time for this I don't know), it may be that AMD is on average faster for us because of when we actually play titles.

 

[sze5003]

Get an adapter?

Yea I forgot about those. If I do end up with one of these I hope it fits my case. But I'll wait and see final prices.

It also comes down to WHEN you benchmark a game. A number of times(maybe even more?) AMD performance significantly improves later down the line. So for those of us who don't play every game the second it comes out (How people have time for this I don't know), it may be that AMD is on average faster for us because of when we actually play titles.

Usually amd drivers tend to be somewhat buggy but they have improved a lot over time. I haven't had any issues and have only had to roll back from a beta once. I also notice the increase in performance over time with certain games which is good because I don't always buy PC games right away as opposed to my consoles.

 

[jamesgalb]

If this is true, the 390 and 390x will be DOA. Just get a 290 or 290x now for 1/2 or 1/3 the price. Not happening...

I think you will be surprised with the respun Hawaii (Granada).

Pure speculation, but I expect the following over a 290x...

1.1Ghz vs 1Ghz - Core Clock Speed
3062 vs 2816 - Steam Processors
48 vs 40 - Compute Units
192 vs 176 - Texture Mapping Units
8GB vs 4GB - VRam
6Ghz vs 5Ghz - Memory Frequency
384GB/s vs 320GB/s - Memory Bandwidth
GNC 1.2 vs GNC 1.1

Overall, I expect something ~20% better than 290x and ultimately smokes the 980 while delivering more 'future proof' components and tech (h.265, HDMI2, DP1.3, DX12.3, 8GB vram, etc), and I expect a lower price (~$500) ...

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

@Bobisuruncle54@

Why mention the best graphics card for Global Foundries 390X has 8 GB of memory while TSMC said in 4GB ?

Explain To Me Please ?

It's not about GloFo vs TSMC, rather best case vs worst case scenario - 8GB for best case using an imposter, and 4GB as it might not be something AMD has time/ability to do at the moment.

Best/Worst case for whom? Best for either company is worse for us the user. That is the point the non-fanatical posters here, are trying to convey.

I tell you if your best case scenario pans out, the fanatical Nvidia supporters will criticize the low prices. I can see it now.

AMD is too cheap.

I agree completely, this is best/worst case for AMD as a company putting out competitive products. Consumers should want AMD doing as well as possible, even if they only ever buy Nvidia cards.

If the Fury MAXX is really 4096 shaders and 300 W TDP, it should be faster than the Titan X given that the water should keep the clocks up.

Agreed, it could be a beast of a card and I hope it is.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

I thought this is whats being released. Never heard of or even a rumor of a cut down Fury(Fiji).

This thinking is not based on any rumor, but simply on how the market works. The bigger the chip, the greater the chance of having random flaws in it, and also the greater the cost per unit that gets scrapped if it doesn't work. Really large chips really can't expect awesome yields of chips that are 100% functional. Not having a salvage version can mean having to throw away more than half your product, that would sell just fine as a lower model.

 

[Cloudfire777]

I think you will be surprised with the respun Hawaii (Granada).

Pure speculation, but I expect the following over a 290x...

1.1Ghz vs 1Ghz - Core Clock Speed
3062 vs 2816 - Steam Processors
48 vs 40 - Compute Units
192 vs 176 - Texture Mapping Units
8GB vs 4GB - VRam
6Ghz vs 5Ghz - Memory Frequency
384GB/s vs 320GB/s - Memory Bandwidth
GNC 1.2 vs GNC 1.1

Overall, I expect something ~20% better than 290x and ultimately smokes the 980 while delivering more 'future proof' components and tech (h.265, HDMI2, DP1.3, DX12.3, 8GB vram, etc), and I expect a lower price (~$500) ...

Sigh, I will post some pictures this time. Maybe you guys are better with visualization than reading.
Notice this magical "respun Hawaii" in this chart is only 7% faster than 290X. It happens to have 5% faster clock than 290X....

 

[maddie]

Sigh, I will post some pictures this time. Maybe you guys are better with visualization than reading.
Notice this magical "respun Hawaii" in this chart is only 7% faster than 290X. It happens to have 5% faster clock than 290X....

What I find strange is this. The 370 has twice the memory of the 380.

ASUS STRIX-R9380-OC-2GD5
ASUS STRIX-R9370-OC-4GD5

 

[Cloudfire777]

What I find strange is this. The 370 has twice the memory of the 380.

ASUS STRIX-R9380-OC-2GD5
ASUS STRIX-R9370-OC-4GD5

Yeah I noticed that as well.

According to AMD`s specs for those two cards, R9 380 have both 2GB and 4GB models as well. Asus just happened to only list the 2GB version
http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/83011-amd-lists-radeon-r9-380-r9-370-r9-360-oem-card-specs/

 

[Glo.]

Cloud, dont you think that if it would be ONLY a rebrand without ANY changes, AMD would announce new cards when they announced OEM chips?

Waiting that long to announce availability of new name for the same cards, that are already in store, with higher price is a bit... well, end it up yourself.

NOBODY in the entire world is that stupid. Especially - consumers.

Maybe card can have similar core count, but it can be completely different chip. Especially if it is made on new process, and has new technology. But the core count can be misleading.

 

[maddie]

Cloud, dont you think that if it would be ONLY a rebrand without ANY changes, AMD would announce new cards when they announced OEM chips?

Waiting that long to announce availability of new name for the same cards, that are already in store, with higher price is a bit... well, end it up yourself.

NOBODY in the entire world is that stupid. Especially - consumers.

Maybe card can have similar core count, but it can be completely different chip. Especially if it is made on new process, and has new technology. But the core count can be misleading.

Yes indeed.

For some more speculation:

AMD has power gated parts of the die to save on leakage as done on Carrizo.

1) Power gating
2) Real time V drop frequency adjustment to lower overall voltage needed
3) Less leakage with GF process

DAVID KANTER:
Adaptive Clocking in AMD’s Steamroller
http://www.realworldtech.com/steamroller-clocking/

My favorite paper from the ISSCC processor session (5.6) describes an adaptive clocking technique implemented in AMD’s 28nm Steamroller core that compensates for power supply noise.

AMD’s adaptive clocking system in Steamroller is quite attractive, offering a significant improvement in power at a minimal cost in terms of area and a negligible impact on performance

The paper also demonstrated one of AMD’s key differentiators, expertise in power management and clocking, that is critical for any computing platform from mobile to servers. The techniques described will first appear in AMD’s Steamroller based platforms, but are expected to roll out across other IP blocks potentially including GPUs, ARM cores, and the Jaguar core.

 

[Cloudfire777]

Cloud, dont you think that if it would be ONLY a rebrand without ANY changes, AMD would announce new cards when they announced OEM chips?

Waiting that long to announce availability of new name for the same cards, that are already in store, with higher price is a bit... well, end it up yourself.

NOBODY in the entire world is that stupid. Especially - consumers.

Maybe card can have similar core count, but it can be completely different chip. Especially if it is made on new process, and has new technology. But the core count can be misleading.

It certainly doesnt perform any better than Hawaii so they havent increased performance for the cores.

It could be GCN 1.2 or something like that, with better TDP/power consumption though, you could be right about that.

 

[biostud]

Is there any chance that the 390(X) could be upgraded to GCN 1.2?

 

[MrTeal]

I think you will be surprised with the respun Hawaii (Granada).

Pure speculation, but I expect the following over a 290x...

1.1Ghz vs 1Ghz - Core Clock Speed
3062 vs 2816 - Steam Processors
48 vs 40 - Compute Units
192 vs 176 - Texture Mapping Units
8GB vs 4GB - VRam
6Ghz vs 5Ghz - Memory Frequency
384GB/s vs 320GB/s - Memory Bandwidth
GNC 1.2 vs GNC 1.1

Overall, I expect something ~20% better than 290x and ultimately smokes the 980 while delivering more 'future proof' components and tech (h.265, HDMI2, DP1.3, DX12.3, 8GB vram, etc), and I expect a lower price (~$500) ...

I'm guessing you mean 3072 stream processors, but even then I don't see how you can call something like that a Hawaii respin, any more than you could call Tonga a Tahiti respin. That would be an entirely new chip whose only real link to Hawaii would be about the same number of CUs. If anything, it would be more like big Tonga.

 

[JDG1980]

Sigh, I will post some pictures this time. Maybe you guys are better with visualization than reading.
Notice this magical "respun Hawaii" in this chart is only 7% faster than 290X. It happens to have 5% faster clock than 290X....

Both that chart and that article are completely unconfirmed rumors. I'm not saying that they necessarily can't be true, but it is a mistake to take anything at face value except what can be determined from AMD's official statements and publications.

 

[swilli89]

Sigh, I will post some pictures this time. Maybe you guys are better with visualization than reading.
Notice this magical "respun Hawaii" in this chart is only 7% faster than 290X. It happens to have 5% faster clock than 290X....

I really hope AMD offers something better than that at $399. Hope this is just fake.

 

[JDG1980]

OK, here are my educated guesses about the upcoming lineup.

Prediction: All new chips (except the OEM leftovers and bottom-of-the-barrel crap) will be on Global Foundries 28nm SHP, instead of TSMC.
Rationale: AMD's current TSMC lineup isn't competitive, especially in terms of performance per watt - the one area where Maxwell has absolutely crushed them. The switch from TSMC to GloFo made a big difference with Beema/Mullins; AMD claims 38% lower leakage on that chip's iGPU. Even if the difference isn't that big on desktop-grade GPUs, there's still likely to be a reasonable gain. And AMD is required to buy GloFo wafers under the "take-or-pay" agreement. Kaveri/Godavari is hardly selling like hotcakes, all of the FX chips are both years outdated and on the older 32nm process, and Carrizo is a small chip that may have some niche success, but can't account for $1 billion worth of wafers annually. This leaves discrete GPUs as the only place for AMD to fill their GloFo orders. (And Fiji is way too small a volume to do it alone.) They can pay some money up front to port the designs, get something reasonably competitive until late 2016, and meet their contract with GloFo. The alternative would be to stay with unmodified TSMC rebrands, sell uncompetitive crap until late 2016 (continuing to lose mindshare and market share), and then pay penalties to GloFo under the WSA. I don't think AMD will be stupid enough to try that, though they have done some stupid things in the past.

Prediction: All new chips will have an updated UVD block, similar to that in Carrizo, which will support HEVC decoding. They will also support HDMI 2.0.
Rationale: It is known and demonstrated that Carrizo will have HEVC decoding built in. AMD has traditionally done well in the HTPC market, and a HEVC decoder on discrete cards would obviously be desirable. It would give AMD a leg up over Nvidia, which only has this feature in the GTX 960 (even the Titan X is lacking it). A few months ago, on the DevGuru boards (which have since been rebooted), an AMD employee confirmed all 2015 GPUs would have HEVC support. If AMD has to go to the effort of porting the GPUs to GloFo and incurring all the fixed expenses (tapeout, validation, etc.) then updating the UVD block probably won't be much extra expense on top of that, especially if these chips are designed in a modular fashion using automated or semi-automated tools (which I think they are).

Predicted chip lineup:

• Fiji: Pretty much what everyone has already deduced from the leaks. 4096 GCN shaders with 4GB of HBM on an interposer. AMD's public statements seem to indicate that it will be 4GB, though it's possible that this could be misdirection and that an 8GB model could be released either immediately or at some point in the future. My money is on 4GB at this point, though.
• Grenada: Hawaii respun on GloFo. There's a good chance that the Double Precision support will be cut down to reduce the transistor count. Although I would bet against it, it's at least conceivable that they may increase the shader count to 3072, and/or update the architecture to GCN 1.2.
• Antigua: Tonga respun on GloFo. I don't see many functional changes being performed here except the addition of HEVC decoding.
• Trinidad: A replacement chip for Pitcairn, probably with the same 1280 shaders, but redone from the ground up as a full GCN 1.2 chip. Another possibility is that this might be a "half-Antigua" the same way that Nvidia's GM206 is almost exactly half of a GM204. The only issue is that doing so would put Trinidad behind full Pitcairn in some benchmarks (1024 shaders vs 1280). Still, that could save some money and would still be a competitive product at $99-$149 if the perf/watt was good enough.

Predicted card lineup:

• Fury XT: The top-tier water-cooled card that has been teased recently. At $849, this will go up against Titan X with approximately 5% better performance. Nvidia will focus on their brand equity and higher VRAM count in competing against it.
• Fury Pro: Cut down to 3584 shaders, but still sporting 4GB of HBM. It will have to be priced at $499 to compete against the GTX 980 Ti.
• R9 390X: Full Grenada. TDP (maximum power limit) will be 250W, although it won't go much above 200W during normal gaming. Due to higher clocks and/or architectural updates, performance will be slightly better than GTX 980 (maybe 10% or so), and the 8GB of RAM will bloat the bill of materials, so it will sell at $399. I suspect there will be no reference card, because AMD doesn't have a decent blower and they don't want the bad reviews they got with the Hawaii cards. There's an outside chance that those old shroud pictures which we though were for Fiji were actually meant for a water-cooled edition of the R9 390X with an Asetek CLC.
• R9 390: Cut-down Grenada with 2560 shaders (or maybe 2688 if Grenada has a total of 3072). Same TDP. Designed to compete against the GTX 970, so it can be priced no higher than $299. It may well only have 4GB of VRAM, since for most users this will be enough.
• R9 380X: Full Antigua with 4GB of RAM. TDP (maximum power limit) will be around 175W, and it won't go over 150W during normal gaming. Basically, better than Tahiti performance at Pitcairn TDP levels, with all the GCN 1.2 features. At $249, this should easily beat the GTX 960.
• R9 380: Cut-down Antigua, basically the same as the R9 285 but with much better perf/watt, both because of the new process and because the current 285 is trash silicon. One power connector, so the maximum TDP is 150W. Won't go over about 125W in normal gaming. May be available with either 2GB or 4GB of VRAM and should have a price around $199.
• R9 370X: Full Trinidad. 100W TDP, designed to beat the GTX 750 Ti in performance (though not perf/watt) at a similar price level. With 2GB of VRAM this should cost no more than $149.
• R9 370: Cut-down Trinidad (or maybe just downclocked?) with a 75W TDP so that it requires no external power connector. This will compete in the same market that the GTX 750/750 Ti is currently in. If AMD can hit a shelf price of $99, then it would be a tempting upgrade for people who want to add gaming capabilities to an OEM system. HEVC decoding would be especially nice to have in these kind of systems, because they may not be strong enough to do it on the CPU alone.

What do you think? Does that sound reasonable?