[WCCF] AMD Kaveri Mobile APUs Vs. ULV Haswell Benchmarks

[Enigmoid]

wow, now you guys are bashing opencl -read, an apple initiative.

opencl is in wide spread adoption for alot of video editors [which you would need a more beefy apu for], even adobes creative suite supports opencl in a few of its programs.

Also opencl will be a driving force in the industry going forward.

A huge chunk of the market doesn't do video or photo editing (and a MUCH larger chunk doesn't do it more than very casually). I'm not bashing OpenCL i'm just saying that a lot of people aren't going to have much use for it. Its like DP on discrete mobile GPUs, nice but not terribly useful for the majority compared to something like gaming performance.

That's AMD value proposition, isn't it? AMD is trying to sell Kaveri to people who do care enough about gaming or OpenCL but don't care too much about CPU or power consumption, and is cash strapped enough to not consider a dGPU. Those benchmarks are exactly to showcase this scenario for the targeted consumers. It's the same old strategy that is making them lose market share for the last the last three years. I can't really see Kaveri changing anything.

Kaveri is a nice product and all but on ULV CPUs OpenCL isn't a terrible deal for a lot of people.

 

[Gikaseixas]

AMD's lead on graphic performance is a big selling point for these APUs. CPU performance needs to improve yesterday so while they'll beat their own previous arch, they really need to get closer to Intel.

 

[mrmt]

Kaveri is a nice product and all but on ULV CPUs OpenCL isn't a terrible deal for a lot of people.

Kaveri is a very bad product. It occupies the same odd spot of Llano, Trinity and Richlad: CPU is bad when compared to Intel's, GPU is bad when compared to AMD's own discrete offers, let alone Nvidia's. The caveat today is that Intel is able to deliver a smaller gap on dGPU performance and they have high end parts that actually beat Kaveri in most cases. And given the big die, cost structure is way poor too. AMD will continue to lose market share with it.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Never saw people saying that Haswell is bad when compared to AMD's or Nvidia's discrete GPUs. That's just stupid given the limitations both cpu makers still encounter while trying to produce higher and higher graphical performance. That's a lot of processing power under one hood, it's more complex than just making a GPU.

Instead of only badmouth a product without even seeing a proper review, people should at least wait. I can see lower power consumption, while mhz speeds are higher and that's one very important aspect here. Unfortunately some guys prefer not to mention that part cuz doesn't do any good to their agendas.

It's amazing that AMD with its tiny budget continues to try and actually beats Intel in graphics side.

 

[mrmt]

Never saw people saying that Haswell is bad when compared to AMD's or Nvidia's discrete GPUs. That's just stupid given the limitations both cpu makers still encounter while trying to produce higher and higher graphical performance. That's a lot of processing power under one hood, it's more complex than just making a GPU.

You never saw people saying the same about Haswell because Haswell value proposition is the best processor money can buy for a given market bracket. The iGPU is secondary.

AMD can't say the same about their APU, because the processor is 2nd class, either in raw performance, power consumption, or both. So the value proposition of AMD APU goes through the iGPU. But if they are touting the iGPU as the main value proposition, why can't we compare it against comparable dGPU?

It's amazing that AMD with it tiny budget continues to try and actually beats Intel in graphics side.

AMD burnt 5.4 billion at the time, or 6.2 billion in today's values to acquire GPU expertise, plus some 3 billion in R&D since the acquisition. I would not call this budget tiny by any standards, and I doubt Intel iGPU R&D budget is that big. I can't really see Intel burning over 1.5 billion on average to acquire GPU technology.

If you think AMD is amazing, think about Nvidia. Nvidia used to spend less on R&D than AMD but still made *much* more money than the latter. Today AMD spends less on R&D than Nvidia does, but Nvidia is competing in less markets than AMD...

 

[parvadomus]

It's amazing that AMD with it tiny budget continues to try and actually beats Intel in graphics side.

It will not only beat it in graphics side, it will eventually get near its CPU performance at some point in mobile. The intel cpus are just too fat, and the trend continues. AMD needs to get a bit better IPC and with a better node it will catch with intel (at performance/watt), and you know, mobile is consumption capped..

 

[mrmt]

It will not only beat it in graphics side, it will eventually get near its CPU performance at some point in mobile. The intel cpus are just too fat, and the trend continues. AMD needs to get a bit better IPC and with a better node it will catch with intel (at performance/watt), and you know, mobile is consumption capped..

The gap is growing, not shrinking.

 

[Shivansps]

It's amazing that AMD with it tiny budget continues to try and actually beats Intel in graphics side.

Thats always been that way, its Intel who getting close on there.

 

[Gikaseixas]

You never saw people saying the same about Haswell because Haswell value proposition is the best processor money can buy for a given market bracket. The iGPU is secondary.

Nonsense, more and more people spend their time playing on tablets with weak cpus and PC gaming is not dying anytime soon. CPU power is very important i agree but GPU performance is pretty much a close second. What you want is a balanced chip, one that's strong in both areas. Intel and AMD know this and that's why you seeing Iris Pro and a more competitive Kavery. The 4770R with Iris Pro is the best chip in the market. We need to see that performance at a lower price bracket thou.

 

[mrmt]

Nonsense, more and more people spend their time playing on tablets with weak cpus and PC gaming is not dying anytime soon.

I can't see the nonsense here. Care to explain?

I didn't say anything about people not gaming on tablets, but I said that the iGPU is not Intel main value proposition. They have products that address the needs of people who care about iGPU, but that's not their mainstream.

And if you are talking about tablets, you are talking about battery life. AMD and battery life are pretty much opposites.

 

[monstercameron]

I can't see the nonsense here. Care to explain?

I didn't say anything about people not gaming on tablets, but I said that the iGPU is not Intel main value proposition. They have products that address the needs of people who care about iGPU, but that's not their mainstream.

And if you are talking about tablets, you are talking about battery life. AMD and battery life are pretty much opposites.

people forget that intel and amd had equivalent battery life before haswell...don't skew it and claim that AMD had terrible battery life, because I have a dell with a standard voltage i3 that gets about ~2hrs watching video on battery.
Battery life is too dependent on platform power for you to make such claims.

 

[Gikaseixas]

I said that the iGPU is not Intel main value proposition

Ok i see, and because it's Intel this is ok for you? Is it a bad thing that AMD values iGPU a lot more than Intel does?
What's bad is AMD CPU performance and Intel GPU performance in comparable price brackets. They both need to improve their weak areas thats all.

 

[witeken]

Broadwell will erase all Intel's GPU shortcomings.

 

[bullzz]

lol, all this fight between kaveri and haswell after AMD's marketing slides put out 2 benchmarks? we have no idea if this performance will be valid in real world. considering there are roumurs that broadwell has started production, intel doesnt have to be worried about this..

 

[witeken]

14nm volume production started in Q1, it isn't a rumor.

 

[erunion]

people forget that intel and amd had equivalent battery life before haswell...don't skew it and claim that AMD had terrible battery life, because I have a dell with a standard voltage i3 that gets about ~2hrs watching video on battery.
Battery life is too dependent on platform power for you to make such claims.

Intel has had a battery life advantage for many generations. SNB had a decent edge over Trinity.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5831/amd-trinity-review-a10-4600m-a-new-hope/8

 

[Fjodor2001]

14nm volume production started in Q1, it isn't a rumor.

What matters is when the chips will be available in the shops. And that is still unknown.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Broadwell will erase all Intel's GPU shortcomings.

Pretty bold statement lol
It's possible but you don't have [unreleased] cpu's to bench so this is pure speculation unless you have inside info hehe

 

[Gikaseixas]

we have no idea if this performance will be valid in real world. considering there are roumurs that broadwell has started production, intel doesnt have to be worried about this..

All you've seen about broawell is marketing slides too and yet you don't question them, SAD. Intel needs to worry until they beat AMD with a released product. Bias is bias

 

[bullzz]

@Gikaseixas - ?? what is there to question when have no broadwell benchmarks ?
by ur logic, AMD will not beat Intel's released product in many benchmarks. shall we call that bias

 

[monstercameron]

Intel has had a battery life advantage for many generations. SNB had a decent edge over Trinity.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5831/amd-trinity-review-a10-4600m-a-new-hope/8

I guess you didnt read all of my comment?
"...Battery life is too dependent on platform power for you to make such claims."

besides the link you gave shows results all over the place.

 

[Gikaseixas]

@Gikaseixas - ?? what is there to question when have no broadwell benchmarks ?

Exactly, there are no figures for you to assume just like you did here:

considering there are roumurs that broadwell has started production, intel doesnt have to be worried about this..

 

[frozentundra123456]

Ok i see, and because it's Intel this is ok for you? Is it a bad thing that AMD values iGPU a lot more than Intel does?
What's bad is AMD CPU performance and Intel GPU performance in comparable price brackets. They both need to improve their weak areas thats all.

I would not go so far as to say that Kaveri is a bad chip, but it is just in limbo. Sort of the "jack of all trades and master of none" situation. It has neither outstanding cpu *or* igpu performance. At least Intel has outstanding cpu performance and good enough igp performance for the vast majority of users, and if more performance is needed a discrete gpu can be added.

And it doesnt really matter how much AMD values gpu performance, what matters is what the market values, and considering AMD's cpu market share, the market clearly does not value igp performance enough to make AMD chips a compelling solution.

 

[monstercameron]

I would not go so far as to say that Kaveri is a bad chip, but it is just in limbo. Sort of the "jack of all trades and master of none" situation. It has neither outstanding cpu *or* igpu performance. At least Intel has outstanding cpu performance and good enough igp performance for the vast majority of users, and if more performance is needed a discrete gpu can be added.

And it doesnt really matter how much AMD values gpu performance, what matters is what the market values, and considering AMD's cpu market share, the market clearly does not value igp performance enough to make AMD chips a compelling solution.

the market values whatever is marketed to them...why do you think samsung is so successful? branding and marketing is what makes apple so successful. Not to say that is the end-all-be-all of business but in success it is a large portion.
To say that the "market" doesn't want AMD because of the current market share is a bit shortsided.
AMD needs to do more marketing to the mainstream, when was the last time you saw an AMD commercial on tv?

 

[AtenRa]

It has neither outstanding cpu *or* igpu performance.

It has the best iGPU performance by a huge margin to second best (Intel).

At least Intel has outstanding cpu performance and good enough igp performance for the vast majority of users,

AMD has good enough CPU performance (within 10% in the same segment) and outstanding GPU performance. There are Games that are unplayable with an Intel iGPU, can you say the same for the AMD CPU ??? is there an app that doesnt run on AMD CPUs ??

Why Intel iGPU is good enough for the vast majority of users and AMD CPUs are not good enough for the same users ??