Wave gun at car, get shot

[HAL9000]

ROFL. Alright, go tell your fiancee that if you have a loaded gun and someone breaks in an attacks you, you'll put the gun aside and "fight him morally" knowing full well that if you lose she'd be at his mercy and you'd be dead.

Seriously Hal, just stop it already. You just said you'd submit to a Darwin award. 😀

I didn't say I would. That's the point I'm emotionally driven, I shouldn't be able to make that choice.

 

[Numenorean]

Would I? :hmm: That's news to me.

No it isn't. You've said as much many times.

 

[HAL9000]

No it isn't. You've said as much many times.

Have I? feel free to pop back with a quote where I've said that. 🙄

 

[Bignate603]

Don't care if it's "less risky" it's also less moral.

Him attacking is not moral. If he had not attacked he would not risk getting hurt. It is not moral to expect me to risk my own life because it might harm someone that is trying to do me bodily harm. If someone attacks me when I have done nothing wrong there is nothing wrong with me using any advantage I have at my disposal to defend myself.

The attacker is the immoral one, the defender is not.

 

[HAL9000]

Him attacking is not moral. If he had not attacked he would not risk getting hurt. It is not moral to expect me to risk my own life because it might harm someone that is trying to do me bodily harm. If someone attacks me when I have done nothing wrong there is nothing wrong with me using any advantage I have at my disposal to defend myself.

The attacker is the immoral one, the defender is not.

Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.

 

[irishScott]

Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.

No, but extricating yourself, drawing and holding him at gunpoint would stop the fight more quickly with no loss of life and less injury than if the fight had continued.

I he draws a knife or other lethal weapon and I'm afraid for my life, he gets shot.

 

[HAL9000]

No, but extricating yourself, drawing and holding him at gunpoint would stop the fight more quickly with no loss of life and less injury than if the fight had continued.

Then why do you need a loaded gun? Just get a replica.

 

[Bignate603]

And so he does.

Then what's wrong with him using something more effective that doesn't require him to get close enough to risk being hurt?

He should! He should have backup, a nightstick, a stun gun, some pepper spray and a radio.

All of those require that the cop gets close to him, and they're pretty much all ineffective against people on certain drugs.

 

[HAL9000]

Then what's wrong with him using something more effective that doesn't require him to get close enough to risk being hurt?

Absolutely, killing someone who could HURT you is not OK.

All of those require that the cop gets close to him, and they're pretty much all ineffective against people on certain drugs.

Really? They seem to work...

 

[Numenorean]

Then why do you need a loaded gun? Just get a replica.

Because if you have a replica and pointing that at the assailant causes them to pull out a knife and charge you, then what do you do? Yell "BANG BANG!!" and hope he drops to the floor?

 

[irishScott]

I didn't say I would. That's the point I'm emotionally driven, I shouldn't be able to make that choice.

Correction: You're afraid of making the choice, and you don't think you could choose correctly. For that matter who isn't afraid? I don't think anyone wants to be in such a situation. Fact is such situation happen, and better to be prepared than not. I know plenty of stories of gun control advocates who converted after being placed in a deadly situation.

 

[Numenorean]

Absolutely, killing someone who could HURT you is not OK.

Yes it is, in certain situations.

 

[HAL9000]

Because if you have a replica and pointing that at the assailant causes them to pull out a knife and charge you, then what do you do? Yell "BANG BANG!!" and hope he drops to the floor?

I wouldn't do that no.

Correction: You're afraid of making the choice, and you don't think you could choose correctly. For that matter who isn't afraid? I don't think anyone wants to be in such a situation. Fact is such situation happen, and better to be prepared than not. I know plenty of stories of gun control advocates who converted after being placed in a deadly situation.

I don't think anyone should have the right to choose to end someone else's life, much less in a split second, I think people should have to take a long time to kill someone else, forcing them to take time to consider it. If someone has a knife should you be able to execute them? No. IMO.

Yes it is, in certain situations.

I disagree.

P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.

 

[irishScott]

Absolutely, killing someone who could HURT you is not OK.



Really? They seem to work...

Drugs notwithstanding, most types of pepper spray can be blocked by facemasks and glasses, and thick clothing can render tazers and stun guns ineffective.

Other methods you mention rely on pain for compliance, and when you're drugged to the point of feeling no pain, ineffective unless they physically shut down parts of the body.

 

[irishScott]

I don't think anyone should have the right to choose to end someone else's life, much less in a split second, I think people should have to take a long time to kill someone else, forcing them to take time to consider it. If someone has a knife should you be able to execute them? No. IMO.


P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.

Depends on the circumstances. If they move towards me with the knife with obvious malicious intent, then yes I can and should shoot them.

 

[Bignate603]

Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.

You seem to be sure that he'll stop after just punching you. There's no guarantee that the attacker won't continue you to beat you until you're permanently injured or dead. The only way to guarantee your safety is to insure that the person will not do something that you can't heal from is to make sure they no longer have the ability to hurt you.

Why should you risk your own life for the life of someone who is trying to severely hurt or kill me or my family? If they didn't want to risk harm they could have just not attacked.

 

[hdfxst]

Then why do you need a loaded gun? Just get a replica.

Because we can't throw a rock at 1200 fps

 

[mcurphy]

P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.

Please don't come back? The 24 hours you were absent after you hit 9,999 posts was the most enjoyable time I have browsed this forum in months.

And somehow, in the brief 24 hours you have been back, you have managed to post an unbelievable ~200 times, and ruin just about every thread on the front page.

 

[irishScott]

Please don't come back? The 24 hours you were absent after you hit 9,999 posts was the most enjoyable time I have browsed this forum in months.

And somehow, in the brief 24 hours you have been back, you have managed to post an unbelievable ~200 times, and ruin just about every thread on the front page.

Yeah, Hal's going on my ignore list. Wasted too much of my life worrying about his opinions, although it was kinda fun dishing out ownage, even if he doesn't realize it.

 

[Bignate603]

Yeah, Hal's going on my ignore list. Wasted too much of my life worrying about his opinions, although it was kinda fun dishing out ownage, even if he doesn't realize it.

I really should ignore him but my tolerance for ignorance is quite low.

 

[irishScott]

I really should ignore him but my tolerance for ignorance is quite low.

So's mine, but this is the 4th time I've personally gone round with him over this. He's not getting any more enlightened out of this, trust me.

 

[Bignate603]

So's mine, but this is the 4th time I've personally gone round with him over this. He's not getting any more enlightened out of this, trust me.

I've realized that. He's kind of like fleabag in that respect.

 

[HAL9000]

Drugs notwithstanding, most types of pepper spray can be blocked by facemasks and glasses, and thick clothing can render tazers and stun guns ineffective.

Other methods you mention rely on pain for compliance, and when you're drugged to the point of feeling no pain, ineffective unless they physically shut down parts of the body.

They have pretty good success rates over here. Breaking arms and such when needed.

Depends on the circumstances. If they move towards me with the knife with obvious malicious intent, then yes I can and should shoot them.

I disagree, someone threatening you with a knife should not result in execution. If it becomes absolutely clear they intend to kill you that's different but just trying to attack you is different. This is why I don't think you should have the right to kill.

You seem to be sure that he'll stop after just punching you. There's no guarantee that the attacker won't continue you to beat you until you're permanently injured or dead. The only way to guarantee your safety is to insure that the person will not do something that you can't heal from is to make sure they no longer have the ability to hurt you.

Why should you risk your own life for the life of someone who is trying to severely hurt or kill me or my family? If they didn't want to risk harm they could have just not attacked.

It's not OK, to assume that a punch will lead to murder, you can't pre-emptively kill someone purely based on a punch!

 

[Scotteq]

So's mine, but this is the 4th time I've personally gone round with him over this. He's not getting any more enlightened out of this, trust me.

"Never try to teach a Pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the Pig."


A lousy aphorism, sure. But it's clear - and has been for months - the minds of everyone are already set. So you're only annoying each other.

 

[HAL9000]

Never try to teach a Pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the Pig.

Love it.