Wave gun at car, get shot

Page 21 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
ROFL. Alright, go tell your fiancee that if you have a loaded gun and someone breaks in an attacks you, you'll put the gun aside and "fight him morally" knowing full well that if you lose she'd be at his mercy and you'd be dead.

Seriously Hal, just stop it already. You just said you'd submit to a Darwin award. :D

I didn't say I would. That's the point I'm emotionally driven, I shouldn't be able to make that choice.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Don't care if it's "less risky" it's also less moral.

Him attacking is not moral. If he had not attacked he would not risk getting hurt. It is not moral to expect me to risk my own life because it might harm someone that is trying to do me bodily harm. If someone attacks me when I have done nothing wrong there is nothing wrong with me using any advantage I have at my disposal to defend myself.

The attacker is the immoral one, the defender is not.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Him attacking is not moral. If he had not attacked he would not risk getting hurt. It is not moral to expect me to risk my own life because it might harm someone that is trying to do me bodily harm. If someone attacks me when I have done nothing wrong there is nothing wrong with me using any advantage I have at my disposal to defend myself.

The attacker is the immoral one, the defender is not.

Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.

No, but extricating yourself, drawing and holding him at gunpoint would stop the fight more quickly with no loss of life and less injury than if the fight had continued.

I he draws a knife or other lethal weapon and I'm afraid for my life, he gets shot.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
No, but extricating yourself, drawing and holding him at gunpoint would stop the fight more quickly with no loss of life and less injury than if the fight had continued.

Then why do you need a loaded gun? Just get a replica.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
And so he does.

Then what's wrong with him using something more effective that doesn't require him to get close enough to risk being hurt?

He should! He should have backup, a nightstick, a stun gun, some pepper spray and a radio.

All of those require that the cop gets close to him, and they're pretty much all ineffective against people on certain drugs.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Then what's wrong with him using something more effective that doesn't require him to get close enough to risk being hurt?

Absolutely, killing someone who could HURT you is not OK.

All of those require that the cop gets close to him, and they're pretty much all ineffective against people on certain drugs.

Really? They seem to work...
 

Numenorean

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2008
4,442
1
0
Then why do you need a loaded gun? Just get a replica.

Because if you have a replica and pointing that at the assailant causes them to pull out a knife and charge you, then what do you do? Yell "BANG BANG!!" and hope he drops to the floor?
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
I didn't say I would. That's the point I'm emotionally driven, I shouldn't be able to make that choice.

Correction: You're afraid of making the choice, and you don't think you could choose correctly. For that matter who isn't afraid? I don't think anyone wants to be in such a situation. Fact is such situation happen, and better to be prepared than not. I know plenty of stories of gun control advocates who converted after being placed in a deadly situation.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Because if you have a replica and pointing that at the assailant causes them to pull out a knife and charge you, then what do you do? Yell "BANG BANG!!" and hope he drops to the floor?

I wouldn't do that no.

Correction: You're afraid of making the choice, and you don't think you could choose correctly. For that matter who isn't afraid? I don't think anyone wants to be in such a situation. Fact is such situation happen, and better to be prepared than not. I know plenty of stories of gun control advocates who converted after being placed in a deadly situation.

I don't think anyone should have the right to choose to end someone else's life, much less in a split second, I think people should have to take a long time to kill someone else, forcing them to take time to consider it. If someone has a knife should you be able to execute them? No. IMO.

Yes it is, in certain situations.

I disagree.

P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Absolutely, killing someone who could HURT you is not OK.



Really? They seem to work...

Drugs notwithstanding, most types of pepper spray can be blocked by facemasks and glasses, and thick clothing can render tazers and stun guns ineffective.

Other methods you mention rely on pain for compliance, and when you're drugged to the point of feeling no pain, ineffective unless they physically shut down parts of the body.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
I don't think anyone should have the right to choose to end someone else's life, much less in a split second, I think people should have to take a long time to kill someone else, forcing them to take time to consider it. If someone has a knife should you be able to execute them? No. IMO.


P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.

Depends on the circumstances. If they move towards me with the knife with obvious malicious intent, then yes I can and should shoot them.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Not so, if the attacker punches you in the face and you turn around and shoot him in his face, that's not moral.

You seem to be sure that he'll stop after just punching you. There's no guarantee that the attacker won't continue you to beat you until you're permanently injured or dead. The only way to guarantee your safety is to insure that the person will not do something that you can't heal from is to make sure they no longer have the ability to hurt you.

Why should you risk your own life for the life of someone who is trying to severely hurt or kill me or my family? If they didn't want to risk harm they could have just not attacked.
 

mcurphy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2003
4,150
8
81
P.S. It's 5:50am I'm going to sleep. I'll be back later.

Please don't come back? The 24 hours you were absent after you hit 9,999 posts was the most enjoyable time I have browsed this forum in months.

And somehow, in the brief 24 hours you have been back, you have managed to post an unbelievable ~200 times, and ruin just about every thread on the front page.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Please don't come back? The 24 hours you were absent after you hit 9,999 posts was the most enjoyable time I have browsed this forum in months.

And somehow, in the brief 24 hours you have been back, you have managed to post an unbelievable ~200 times, and ruin just about every thread on the front page.

Yeah, Hal's going on my ignore list. Wasted too much of my life worrying about his opinions, although it was kinda fun dishing out ownage, even if he doesn't realize it.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Yeah, Hal's going on my ignore list. Wasted too much of my life worrying about his opinions, although it was kinda fun dishing out ownage, even if he doesn't realize it.

I really should ignore him but my tolerance for ignorance is quite low.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Drugs notwithstanding, most types of pepper spray can be blocked by facemasks and glasses, and thick clothing can render tazers and stun guns ineffective.

Other methods you mention rely on pain for compliance, and when you're drugged to the point of feeling no pain, ineffective unless they physically shut down parts of the body.

They have pretty good success rates over here. Breaking arms and such when needed.

Depends on the circumstances. If they move towards me with the knife with obvious malicious intent, then yes I can and should shoot them.

I disagree, someone threatening you with a knife should not result in execution. If it becomes absolutely clear they intend to kill you that's different but just trying to attack you is different. This is why I don't think you should have the right to kill.

You seem to be sure that he'll stop after just punching you. There's no guarantee that the attacker won't continue you to beat you until you're permanently injured or dead. The only way to guarantee your safety is to insure that the person will not do something that you can't heal from is to make sure they no longer have the ability to hurt you.

Why should you risk your own life for the life of someone who is trying to severely hurt or kill me or my family? If they didn't want to risk harm they could have just not attacked.

It's not OK, to assume that a punch will lead to murder, you can't pre-emptively kill someone purely based on a punch!
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
So's mine, but this is the 4th time I've personally gone round with him over this. He's not getting any more enlightened out of this, trust me.

"Never try to teach a Pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the Pig."


A lousy aphorism, sure. But it's clear - and has been for months - the minds of everyone are already set. So you're only annoying each other.
 
Last edited: