Water heater crapped out

[sdifox]

My existing setup has a vent to the roof. Why would I want to change it?

chimney to roof means exhaust is travelling through the inside of your house. CO is not something you want inside your house. Direct vent through wall is highly recommended.

 

[The_Dude8]

What is a good manufacturers for gas water heater that you can buy from lowes or home depot?

 

[BoomerD]

What is a good manufacturers for gas water heater that you can buy from lowes or home depot?

If your only choices are those two stores, I think you're more-or-less limited to Whirlpool (Lowe's) and GE. (Home Depot)

Otherwise, check some of the local plumbing supply stores. Our AO Smith tank is over 15 years old...it's gonna get replaced next month (if it lasts that long :whiste: ) but it still works well...it's just getting full of sediment and I'm down to about 25 gallons of hot water before it has to recharge. (40 gallon tank) (we have a shitty water supply here. VERY hard water plus I have to clean the screens in faucets a couple of times per year due to "sand and other materials.")

 

[feralkid]

This is unfortunate, as copper tanks do corrode relatively quickly.

Copper tank in home water heater? I think not.

 

[The_Dude8]

If your only choices are those two stores, I think you're more-or-less limited to Whirlpool (Lowe's) and GE. (Home Depot)

Otherwise, check some of the local plumbing supply stores. Our AO Smith tank is over 15 years old...it's gonna get replaced next month (if it lasts that long :whiste: ) but it still works well...it's just getting full of sediment and I'm down to about 25 gallons of hot water before it has to recharge. (40 gallon tank) (we have a shitty water supply here. VERY hard water plus I have to clean the screens in faucets a couple of times per year due to "sand and other materials.")

thanks.
I heard Bradford white, Rheem, AO smith are all good water heater, but you need a plumb to buy it and install for you.

 

[BoomerD]

thanks.
I heard Bradford white, Rheem, AO smith are all good water heater, but you need a plumb to buy it and install for you.

Actually, you SHOULD be able to buy those yourself...but you'll obviously pay retail instead of the wholesale price the plumbers pay.

 

[The_Dude8]

Actually, you SHOULD be able to buy those yourself...but you'll obviously pay retail instead of the wholesale price the plumbers pay.

How do i find out the wholesale price that plumbers pay?

I was looking at a Bradford White 50 gal water heater, $1,100 for it plus installation.

 

[paperfist]

Wow, the tank cracked after 3 years? Mine is going on 7 years without any problems.

Mine's 15 years old and has a lifetime warranty, I can't get rid of it if I wanted to and I want to badly. Damn you Sears and your ultra fine hot water heater!

 

[seepy83]

How do i find out the wholesale price that plumbers pay?

I was looking at a Bradford White 50 gal water heater, $1,100 for it plus installation.

I paid just under $1100 in December for a 50gal Rheem including the install and removal of the old tank. They replaced some old lines for the natural gas too.

 

[Mark R]

Copper tank in home water heater? I think not.

Yup. Mine is copper, and even more annoyingly has a non-replaceable anode.

It's 10 years old, I expect another 10 years tops.

Still, copper isn't the cheapest - the real cheap ones are made of mild steel with a glass lining. Crack the glass, then the heater is done in short order.

 

[GregGreen]

How do i find out the wholesale price that plumbers pay?

I was looking at a Bradford White 50 gal water heater, $1,100 for it plus installation.

If people at the wholesaler do their job, you will never find out what the trade price is on that particular unit. Their job is to protect their customer (the plumber) long term, not make one quick sale.

 

[GregGreen]

Actually, you SHOULD be able to buy those yourself...but you'll obviously pay retail instead of the wholesale price the plumbers pay.

Most (but not all) wholesalers will deny sale to the general public just because it's not worth the issues that come up when a gas appliance is improperly installed by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. (Some contractors still don't know what they are doing, but they should at least be licensed, bonded, and insured.)

 

[Red Squirrel]

The tankless are great in the south, but wont work in the north where the water is coming into the house at barely freezing temperature. They can only do so much delta in the short period of time that the water passes through, that it wont be hot enough by the time it gets to the outlet.

What I like about the tankless is you can get some with dual exhaust, which is more efficient. (one intake, one exhaust, closed system, vs standard tank heaters that suck indoor air outside). I wish they made tank heaters that have dual exhaust like that. Well they probably do, but they're so uncommon that they probably cost an arm and a leg.

 

[iGas]

It doesn't matter how long your warranty is. The warranty is void if you don't check/change your anode rod annually or bi annually as indicated by the manufacture.

 

[GregGreen]

The tankless are great in the south, but wont work in the north where the water is coming into the house at barely freezing temperature. They can only do so much delta in the short period of time that the water passes through, that it wont be hot enough by the time it gets to the outlet.

What I like about the tankless is you can get some with dual exhaust, which is more efficient. (one intake, one exhaust, closed system, vs standard tank heaters that suck indoor air outside). I wish they made tank heaters that have dual exhaust like that. Well they probably do, but they're so uncommon that they probably cost an arm and a leg.

I agree with your first paragraph. Your second paragraph, I must elaborate on. You can also get Direct Vent traditional water heaters -- this technology isn't limited to tankless heaters. This is usually your best option for price/performance. Direct Vent water heaters aren't uncommon and they are reasonably priced compared to the cheap models. A good plumber would have already recommended one to you.

 

[Thegonagle]

Permit? What permit. Why pay someone for something simple in your house they will never know about. I don't do permits for wear and tear items. You aren't adding to anything, but simply replacing existing that has failed.

You know, the permit fee includes an inspection, right? Not everyone shares your superior skills, so the inspector makes sure the work is up to snuff. An extra set of experienced eyes to give the all-clear for a DIY is a good thing. Many a building inspector has prevented a house from blowing up or saved a house full of people from carbon monoxide poisoning.

I recommend that all do-it-yourselfers get permits and inspections for anything involving gas, and any electrical work more complex than replacing a switch, outlet, or light fixture.

 

[iGas]

You know, the permit fee includes an inspection, right? Not everyone shares your superior skills, so the inspector makes sure the work is up to snuff. An extra set of experienced eyes to give the all-clear for a DIY is a good thing. Many a building inspector has prevented a house from blowing up or saved a house full of people from carbon monoxide poisoning.

I recommend that all do-it-yourselfers get permits and inspections for anything involving gas, and any electrical work more complex than replacing a switch, outlet, or light fixture.

And, it is illegal for the home owner to do gas work even replacing gas appliances with out permits/inspection. It may void the home owner insurance, and the home owner maybe liable for any damage or death of neighbors/friends.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I agree with your first paragraph. Your second paragraph, I must elaborate on. You can also get Direct Vent traditional water heaters -- this technology isn't limited to tankless heaters. This is usually your best option for price/performance. Direct Vent water heaters aren't uncommon and they are reasonably priced compared to the cheap models. A good plumber would have already recommended one to you.

Direct vent still uses indoor air for combustion though, but the heat exchanger IS more efficient so it's still better, considering a PVC pipe can be used and does not get too hot. I meant ones that have an intake and an exhaust, like a high efficiency furnace. It's a closed system which means no indoor air is sucked out of the house.

 

[GregGreen]

Direct vent still uses indoor air for combustion though, but the heat exchanger IS more efficient so it's still better, considering a PVC pipe can be used and does not get too hot. I meant ones that have an intake and an exhaust, like a high efficiency furnace. It's a closed system which means no indoor air is sucked out of the house.

1 Pipe = Power Vent
2 Pipe = Direct Vent

They make both.

 

[lupi]

Its a nice easy job if you have flexible connectionns to the supply/return pipes, soldering not so much.

 

[Eug]

I have a house on which an addition was built. That means the existing furnace room is roughly 22 feet from the exterior wall in terms of venting requirements, with three 90-degree elbows required. My current power vented 50 gallon tank has crapped out - leaking - but I've been wanting to change it anyway for a while now.

I have a huge soaker tub and I run out of hot water with the 50 gallon tank. Because of the rise needed for the venting several people I spoke said that I can't put anything bigger than a 50 gallon tank in the spot of the existing tank. I don't have room for two big tanks either, but I suppose it would be technically possible space-wise to do a 50 gas one plus a 20 electric in series after the gas one, but that doesn't seem ideal. Plus, it wouldn't be cheap, because it would need to be a power vented model.

However, close to the exterior wall is a second utility room which has space for a bigger tank. 60 gallons is doable, but 75 is pushing it. I'd prefer 75. I asked for some quotes and it turns out one guy said their 75 couldn't fit there. Another guy said their Bradford-White direct vent model might fit but they aren't exactly cheap. He claimed his cost price for the 75 gallon Bradford-White direct vented model is CAD$1900, so I checked online and it turns out the US retail price is US$2000, and Canadian retail pricing usually more than 10% more. Ouch. Plus, that model requires a pilot light.

So, the usual recommendation was for tankless because of the location and because of the space. Apparently, technically I might be able to put in a 75 in that new spot, because I'd have to get some plumbing done so I don't block a sewer cleanout. And technically I might be able to put in a tankless in the old spot, but with very long venting and considerably higher expense because of the cost of the venting for tankless.

So both quotes I got recommended a 199000 BTU tankless. I asked about that cold water sandwich, so one guy is recommending I add a small (10 gallon) electric one in series after the tankless (Rinnai RC98i condensing model). That's not ideal either, but nonetheless that's how I'm leaning at this point.

Comments? I live in Toronto.

 

[Minerva]

Yup. Mine is copper, and even more annoyingly has a non-replaceable anode.

It's 10 years old, I expect another 10 years tops.

Still, copper isn't the cheapest - the real cheap ones are made of mild steel with a glass lining. Crack the glass, then the heater is done in short order.

Hehehe you won't have any trouble getting rid of that tank when the time comes!

I don't care for tankless. If you have propane or natgas sure why not? Electric tankless? Yeah that's like half your 200A service every time you crack your cock open in the kitchen!

We have a 88 gal/hr recovery oil fired Bock that was installed in 1995 and still going strong! Wish oil prices were still as cheap as they were in 1995 though.

 

[BoomerD]

How do i find out the wholesale price that plumbers pay?

I was looking at a Bradford White 50 gal water heater, $1,100 for it plus installation.

We didn't swap water heaters earlier this year as planned.

So...still being in the market, I started calling around to get prices since I know they change fairly regularly.
I talked to one plumbing contractor locally who will sell me a Bradford White 50 gallon water heater for $445. (cash & carry)
That's cheaper than any of the models at Home Depot or Lowes, and meets the air quality board's "Ultra-low NOx" requirements.

I was surprised at the price...and even more surprised that they'll sell to an end-user, not just a contractor.

One of my neighbors will "help" me do the install. (OK, he'll do it all except for some minor stuff that I can do) He was a plumber for many years before moving into HVAC.

Once the install is done, I'll get the appropriate city permit and inspection.

 

[mmntech]

The effectiveness of the tankless ones depend a lot on the inlet water temperature. They're no good for cold climates. As for the tanks, I find 7-10 years is the average now. My parents have been in their house almost 30 years and have gone through about 3 water heaters in that time span. All tank cracks. The heater is on soft water too.