water cooling noob

[shamgar03]

Hey this summer I am planning on adding water cooling to my computer. I know there are like 50 posts about this, but I couldnt find one that answered a few specific questions. So here it goes. First, am I correct in assuming that the entire circuit has no air in it, including the resevoir, or does it matter if you have air in the resevoir? Also whats the best way to go if I am going to cool both my video card and my processor. Should I have two completely separate circuits or should I have a 't' junction that goes to each and then comes back together for the radiator. Or should I have them in series with the path going from the processor to a radiator to the gpu to another radiator and then back into the resevoir? I was also thinking, what if I had a single resevoir and had a loop going to each, and then a third loop going through the radiator? Anyway what about measuring pressure and flow rate. Do I need to check to make sure flop rate stays even two both loops? Alright thanks

 

[Mrvile]

Ok, the reservoir is for air to collect in, so there isn't any in your loop. When water with bubbles goes from the tubes to the res, the bubbles will rise to the top and the water will stay at the bottom, to go back into the tubes. It's like a seperation point for the water and air.

If you want to cool both the CPU and the GPU, usually people have the water go from the CPU straight to the GPU, then to the radiator, etc. Try not to make your system too complicated, usually it's just a single loop with the main parts (res, pump, block, rad). Since you're going to have one loop (trust me, you don't want more than one as a beginner) you'll need to make sure all the fittings are the same size throughout the loop, usually 1/2 or 3/8 inch ID (inner dimension).

 

[essasin]

You dont need a res at all, its more of a convience than anything else to fill your setup with waterl and bleed your system for airbubbles. The alternative is make a T fitting at the lower point of you water loop. There arent that many advantages to watercooling your gpu or your a64 system because of the IHS (the heatsink thats ontop of your cpu) because the thermalights with a large fan does just as well at a fraction of the cost and time. However, it is still pretty fun to put together. Now, your system should have the least amount of bends and fittings so it should go something like this

pump------rad-----cpu block------gpu block-----res----pump

The idea is that you pump the coldest water into your cpu block first, then the gpu block and so on. As far as flow rate just get a good reliable pump that has large flow numbers. The best pump hands down is an iwaki pump which are used in small ponds. If you use this pump you'll have a mini tsunami going through your system. Other good pumps are swiftech, danner, ehiem, and dangerden pumps. Just read how much each pump is capable of doing and the most important thing is to have enough waterpressure for your cpu block. For instance, the Danger Den TDX does not perform very well with low pressure and you wiill be disappointed at the temps. Also, the more water blocks if you have in your loop the stronger the pump you are going to need.

 

[Tyrant222]

you know what checking out other peopls systems would answer those questions.

here is a link to a watercooling setup i just put together. link

as you can see a series is the best way to go. Also there will be air at the top of the res since it needs a place to escape.

 

[shamgar03]

So i need to put the res at the top, but where should I mount the radiotor? Do you guys have any suggestions on the radiator? I figure it would be better to have air coming straight in from the room to the radiotor for the best effect. Will there be a noticeable difference between that and having the rad mounted on the output fan? Also should the pump be set on the bottom of the case or should it just be in any old spot? Also is a single 120mm fan radiotor enough, or would a double be extremely better?

 

[Tyrant222]

the res does not need to be at the top. you can place your parts wherever you want as long as you follow the correct path with the tubing.

I think if your cooling a video card it would be best to get a dual 120mm rad. If you want to use less than 100cfm each fans a black ice pro 2 would fit the bill. if you want a bit more performance a black ice extreme 2 or heatercore with 2 greater than 100cfm each fans would be best.

many people with the space mount the dual rads in the front and have them drawing in air from outside to inside their cases. although many cannot do this because of space.

the only way I can fit a dual 120mm rad would have to be at the top. My personal preference is to have the fan blow through the rad and then outside the case.

 

[shamgar03]

Thanks for the info, this is all good stuff

 

[Tyrant222]

let us know what parts you decide on.

 

[shamgar03]

I am looking at pumps now and there are sort of three main choices that I am considering. A Swiftech MCP650 (317) , a PolarFLO TT (317) and a Hydor Seltz (450). Obviously the Hydor has the largest GPH but it is ominously cheap - 50$ compared with the swiftech at 90 and the polarFlo TT at 120. These obviously arent the exact prices becaue I havent really done any shopping around yet but it worries me when something is "better" but is half the price. Also I would like a pump that doesnt whine like my thermaltake volcano fan that is on my CPU right now. So of these does anyone have information about how loud they are?

 

[NINaudio]

If you want a quiet pump I would go with a different Swiftech, the MCP350. It is very small, very quiet, and pumps quite well. It doesn't have the highest gph rating, but it is a high pressure pump, which means you can expect less of a decrease in flow rate through your system. Most reviews I've seen of it that measure the flow have put it around 100 gph in a cooling loop, which is pretty good.

 

[Tyrant222]

if you want a pump that does not whine stay away from the swiftech mcp650 and the polarflow pump as well (just a rebadged swiftech).

with the AC pumps like the hydor you will need an AC relay as well so that adds to the cost.

I would recommend the swiftech mcp350 pump. it is quiet, has great head pressure, and its extremely small.

second I would recommend the swiftech mcp600 but that is harder to find. I only know that cooltechnica.com has them.

I personally have an mcp600.

 

[shamgar03]

I wouldnt mind having an AC relay if it mean quiter and better performance. They two blocks I am looking at are the dangerden TDX and the swiftech MC6000 waterblock for my AMD64. I only saw one waterblock for a geforce 6800 - the dangerden NV-68. Does that mean thats the only waterblock compatible with a 6800 series card, or do other ones with more general names fit it as well? Finally, does anyone know what the average head loss on these water blocks and the average radiotor is? Maybe its not significant but in figuring what pump I should use, its seems like that would be good information.

 

[Tyrant222]

remember like mentioned before GPH is not everything. head pressure plays an important part too. also as far as my information goes I believe the DC pumps will tend to last longer than the ac pumps.

for the 6800 take a look at the Maze4 acetel top on dangerdens site. that one works with 6800s and is only around 40 bucks. i would highly recommend that block to cool a gpu.

there is the generally 2 types of blocks. low restriction and high restriction.

the high restriction blocks like the swiftech 6002 and the TDX perform better with the high flow high head pressure pumps.

something like a mcp600 and a tdx/swiftech will perform great even with a maze4 in the loop.

quick link to procooling pump tests. the mcp600 used is the older one with 160gph. the new one available at cooltechnica is 187gph. link

check out procooling.com for pump and block reviews!

 

[NINaudio]

Dangerden sells a maz gpu cooler for the 6800 series of cards, I'm using one on my 6800 GT and ramsinks on the video ram. Dangerden and Swiftech both make good products. My setup consists of: Swiftech MCP350 pump, Black Ice Extreme single 120mm radiator, TDX cpu block, maze4 gpu block, maze4 chipset block, 3/8" ID tubing, and Fluid XP (wanted to be safe for 2 reasons: 1) first time watercooling, 2) nephew is only 2 years old, god forbid he somehow cracks it all open). My idle/load temps for cpu are 36/44, my temps for the video card are 43/50. And this is with overclocked components....you can see the speeds of them in my sig, so I think you would do just fine with an mcp350.

 

[shamgar03]

Alright so here is what we go. I have spent all day just reading reviews and have gotten none of my data structures project done. Ahh well. Drum Roll please...
CPU Block Swiftech MCP 6002 1/2"
GPU Block Danger Den Maze 4 1/2"
Resevoir Danger Den Bay Resevoir High-Density Polyethylene
Pump AQX 50Z
Radiator DD black Ice xtreme 2x 120mm
Tell me what you guys think. I am wondering if I am going to have to do more cooling for the video card since the fan covers more than just the GPU doesnt it. Also I am wondering about the fluid I should put in. I know distilled water is the bear min but what additives should I use, and I would like some sort of UV reactive stuff going on since I have a UV light and a window, Of course not if its going to grow buku algae or something. I chose the AQX 50z because it is supposed to be somewhat quiter than the Swiftech MCP 650 pump, and it is slightly less pressure. It is basically a MCP 600 as far as I have read. Anyway thanks for all the info guys.

 

[Tyrant222]

no you dont really need ramsinks. I ram mine for a bit without them and still got 1200 on my ultra. with them I still use it at 1200.

for me anyways i dont like to stretch my ram overclock. it seems doing that will cause your card to die faster than a core oc from what ive heard.

as for an additive the Swiftech Hydrex stuff is cheap and a good all in one. its got antifreeze and green uv dye in it already. its highly recommended on the procooling forums as well.

 

[shamgar03]

Do you guys think it is worth it to get the nv-68 water block for my video card or should I just get a maze 4. I feel like my video card generates alot of heat so its possible it would be worth it to play the extra for a nv-68, but I can't seem to find any sort of reviews comparing video card blocks. I think I am going to changed to the swiftech MCP 6000 since reviews seem to show it performs better than the 6002. Also what does it mean that a block has peltier support. If I can have support and dont have to use the peltier should I just go ahead and get that in case I decide to get a peltier later on?
Edit: NM read about Peltiers and now relize that you HAVE to have it running otherwise it is an insulator

 

[NINaudio]

you don't need the nv-68. The Maze-4 will cool your card just fine, most of the heat comes from the gpu anyways. You can get by just fine with ramsinks on the ram and a Maze-4 on the gpu.

 

[shamgar03]

Lol I swear I am almost done, but I am trying to work out how stuff is going to fit into my case and if I am going to get a new case and all that. I am planning on having a dual fan radiator, so I wanted a big case, so I am probobly going to go with a chemning 901 - freaken huge case. It doesnt have a window though so I was looking at windows and .... Window Resevoir by angeleyes . You guys think this is legit or is it going to spew water all over the place? It just looks so freaken sweet...

 

[Mrvile]

Haha, that window thing is pretty crazy, but I bet it's all crap, wouldn't trust it. Just get a regular plastic res, even acrylic reses crack every now and then.

Remember, there's something about AC pumps that people tend to overlook - EMI. AC pumps spit out a lot of EMI, so if you're planning on getting an AC pump, just watch your monitor and whatnot...

Also, I recently attempted to order a 6002MCW-64, and no one has it in stock, not even Swiftech's own store. Sucked pretty bad, I ended up ordering a TDX instead.

Everything else looks good! Your budget must be like 400 dollars cuz that's a lot of stuff there. A BIXII is nice, but it's HUGE. Unless you mount it externally, I don't think it will fit in that P-160 mid-tower. What a waste of 120 dollars for that case though, I personally think you should get a regular BIX instead.

 

[Tyrant222]

i would pass on window res things. you can however get one of those res that fit in a 120mm fan hole and mount it in one of those in your case.

my reason for passing on that type of res would be the problem of routing the tubing and then opening the case. it wont work out too well when your side panel has tubes coming off of it.

 

[shamgar03]

Yeah I was considering getting a really large case to pack it in. Do you think there will be enough heat coming of the system to justify a dual fan radiator? I have had problems keeping my p160 cool. The intake gets glogged up with dust within like a week. Freaken dusty apartment. The problem I see is that if I add a radiator to the case its going to make the air flow drop even worse. The fact that I have 3 HD's in there doesnt help either. The case itself got to nearly 38 degrees celcius today. Granted my room is 25 degrees, but still I havent figured out the problem yet.

 

[Tyrant222]

let us know what you plan on using in this system.

that will help us tell you what rad would be best.

The rad is quite possibly the most important part of your setup so choose carefully.

my system gets by with a measly black ice pro 120mm with a 110cfm fan and a shroud (recently added).

The shroud helped more than I though. brought my cpu temps down about 2C and GPU temps down ~1C.

you have a few options for mounting the radiator. You could go for a black ice extreme 120mm and mount it on the back exhaust or the top.

another option is a dual 120mm rad and mount it up on the top or use a radbox which will require no case hacking at all.

 

[shamgar03]

Well I have a 6800 gt and fx-53 processor. I play a good amount of PC games, but when I am doing homework or listening to music my fan is rather loud. So I would like to be able to overclock and not have to use CnC to get my computer quiter. I am thinking I will probobly have a fan control to keep sound down when I am just like typing a word document or what not. Honestly I havent been extremely happy with the P160, it is nice, but it is overly complicated in some ways. The filter on the front is convenient but it just means the dust in my case is just finer. There isnt really enough room in the case to mod the case, and the glass has grooves in it so putting a fan on there isnt two feasable. With the processor/video card combination I have, two fans doesnt really cut it though. So thats my rant about the P160. I know it seems like a waste, but honestly I wish I had gotten something simpler, and easier to mod. One idea I had was to prop the case up on legs like 6 inches and then have the radiator on the bottom with fans blowing in that way, but I am not quite sure how that would work.

 

[Tyrant222]

since you are interested in something quiet I would suggest the Black Ice Pro 2. it should cool well with fans less than 100cfm.

if you want some more performance though you can get a heatercore like the D-tek Pro Core or the Danger Den heatercore. but those perform best with shrouds and >100CFM fans.