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sourceninja said:
There is a reason there is weight classes in professional fighting. Because a 125 pound fighter has no chance against a well trained 230 pound fighter. This is why I hate bruce lee fans.
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Agree

sourceninja said:
He basically can end fights any time he wants
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Not really. He tried to finish the Maia fight but gassed.

Fedor can finish the fight ANYWHERE, at ANY MOMENT, against ANYONE on earth ( Carwin, Cain, Brock on steroids, Barnett ). You can NEVER count him out.

Ando on the other hand..

anderson_silva_gets_heel_hooked.gif


HAS lost in the past, and IS HESITANT to go to the ground. He's not nearly a complete fighter as Fedor is. This is not really bashing Ando but a testament to how legendary Fedor is. Ando will NOT engage with a BJJist. Fedor will not even think twice about jumping into Big Nog's guard.

Fedor will outstrike the striker, out grapple the grappler. He owns people in their strengths.

Anderson Silva is definitely skilled, but I think he's a bit overrated due to him not facing really tough competition.

Maia, Leites, Cote, Irvin, Lutter, Leben, Marquardt aren't really that great and he has not really won in dominating fashion against Leites or Maia. I give him props for Griffin, Hendo and Rich Franklin.

I consider the #2 P4P to be Shogun - while he has losses he only loses to top competition and it can be argued that he was not 100% against Forrest because of double knee surgery, to which he could not train his cardio for.

Shogun and Anderson Silva walk around the same weight nowadays. Let's look at Shogun's resume:

Lyoto Machida KO
Ricardo Arona KO
Alistair Overeem KO (2x)
Lil Nog ( Decision )
Chuck Liddell KO
Mark Coleman ( TKO )
Nakamura ( SUB )
Kevin Randleman ( SUB )
Rampage ( TKO )

Shogun finishes fights. He has lost to:

1) Babalu Sobral - Babalu's family member died that night and he was dedicating that night. Shogun was way too green for a seasoned Babalu. Shogun would be a favorite against Sobral today.
2) Coleman - freak accident
3) Forrest Griffin - Shogun had double knee surgery and trained no cardio. Lots of pressure so he couldn't turn down the fight.
4) Lyoto Machida - 99% of people agree he won this fight.

Anderson does not have remotely near a resume as a Fedor or Shogun so at best he makes #3 on my list. If Anderson fought and beat Rampage, Rashad, Shogun he would easily become #2.
 
Yay another Strikeforce event! Let’s put some a stiff in front of Fedor and let him knock his head off. Fedor hasn’t fought anyone worth a shit since Pride was taken over by Zuffa. Fedor was a great fighter but it’s really tough to tell how his holding up with age since he keeps fighting these punching bags.

Anyone with eyes could see he was clearly losing to glass jaw Arlovski until he finished the fight with one punch. I just wish we could see him fight some of the new UFC HW’s like Cain, JDS, Brock, and Carwin.
 
Woosta said:
Agree



Not really. He tried to finish the Maia fight but gassed.

Fedor can finish the fight ANYWHERE, at ANY MOMENT, against ANYONE on earth ( Carwin, Cain, Brock on steroids, Barnett ). You can NEVER count him out.

Ando on the other hand..

anderson_silva_gets_heel_hooked.gif


HAS lost in the past, and IS HESITANT to go to the ground. He's not nearly a complete fighter as Fedor is. This is not really bashing Ando but a testament to how legendary Fedor is. Ando will NOT engage with a BJJist. Fedor will not even think twice about jumping into Big Nog's guard.

Fedor will outstrike the striker, out grapple the grappler. He owns people in their strengths.

Anderson Silva is definitely skilled, but I think he's a bit overrated due to him not facing really tough competition.

Maia, Leites, Cote, Irvin, Lutter, Leben, Marquardt aren't really that great and he has not really won in dominating fashion against Leites or Maia. I give him props for Griffin, Hendo and Rich Franklin.

I consider the #2 P4P to be Shogun - while he has losses he only loses to top competition and it can be argued that he was not 100% against Forrest because of double knee surgery, to which he could not train his cardio for.

Shogun and Anderson Silva walk around the same weight nowadays. Let's look at Shogun's resume:

Lyoto Machida KO
Ricardo Arona KO
Alistair Overeem KO (2x)
Lil Nog ( Decision )
Chuck Liddell KO
Mark Coleman ( TKO )
Nakamura ( SUB )
Kevin Randleman ( SUB )
Rampage ( TKO )

Shogun finishes fights. He has lost to:

1) Babalu Sobral - Babalu's family member died that night and he was dedicating that night. Shogun was way too green for a seasoned Babalu. Shogun would be a favorite against Sobral today.
2) Coleman - freak accident
3) Forrest Griffin - Shogun had double knee surgery and trained no cardio. Lots of pressure so he couldn't turn down the fight.
4) Lyoto Machida - 99% of people agree he won this fight.

Anderson does not have remotely near a resume as a Fedor or Shogun so at best he makes #3 on my list. If Anderson fought and beat Rampage, Rashad, Shogun he would easily become #2.
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A very convincing argument. I agree that shogun is a exceptionally amazing fighter.

I also wanted to point out that outside of MMA Fedor is also a bad ass. Check wikipedia for his freakishly amazing sambo and judo career.He has over 12 gold medals in combat sambo (Which is a very awesome and very hard sport consisting of throws, joint locks, and striking).
 
Woosta said:
Many people have no clue who Fedor is. Pictures speak louder than words. Gifs are moving images.
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Dude, you're not some super-secret MMA insider because you're a Fedor nut-hugger. Anybody who watches MMA knows who he is and how dangerous he is. Is he good? Yes, very. Is he avoiding the "best" competition? Darn skippy.

That being said, you're only the best if you beat the best. Fedor (or, more likely M-1) isn't trying to fight the best guys out there currently. You can only ride on past accomplishments for so long.

We all know that friend of ours that loves to talk about how cool/popular/athletic/whatever he was back in high school or college. Great, but what have you done recently? At a certain point, it becomes kind of pathetic living in the past.

Now, I'm not saying Fedor's pathetic now, but he's got to fight some top guys or just retire.
 
wheresmybacon said:
Fedor hasn’t fought anyone worth a shit since Pride was taken over by Zuffa.

Anyone with eyes could see he was clearly losing to glass jaw Arlovski until he finished the fight with one punch. I just wish we could see him fight some of the new UFC HW’s like Cain, JDS, Brock, and Carwin.
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Using your logic

These 4 HWs who you've mentioned haven't fought anyone worth a shit in their entire lives. Anyone with eyes can see that:

Cain has fought no one, Nog is washed up! Just 1 top 10 contender in his entire life. Cain is ducking Fedor.
Carwin has fought no one, Mir is washed up! Just 1 top 10 contender in his entire life. Carwin is ducking Fedor.
Brock has fought no one, Mir is washed up and Old Man Couture is just old. Brock is ducking Fedor.
JDS has fought no one, Cro Cop is washed up and Werdum is a nobody. JDS is ducking Fedor.

Dana White runs you.
 
kinev said:
Dude, you're not some super-secret MMA insider because you're a Fedor nut-hugger. Anybody who watches MMA knows who he is and how dangerous he is. Is he good? Yes, very. Is he avoiding the "best" competition? Darn skippy.

That being said, you're only the best if you beat the best. Fedor (or, more likely M-1) isn't trying to fight the best guys out there currently. You can only ride on past accomplishments for so long.

We all know that friend of ours that loves to talk about how cool/popular/athletic/whatever he was back in high school or college. Great, but what have you done recently? At a certain point, it becomes kind of pathetic living in the past.

Now, I'm not saying Fedor's pathetic now, but he's got to fight some top guys or just retire.
Click to expand...

To fight the best, Fedor would have to fight himself. I don't think that's possible.

Again...

1. Brock has fought nobody. 4-1. Lost to glass chin Mir.
2. Carwin has fought nobody, best win over glass chin Mir.
3. JDS has fought nobody, best win over washed up CroCop.
4. Cain has fought nobody, best win over washed up Nog.

Zuffa runs you.
 
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Woosta said:
Agree



Not really. He tried to finish the Maia fight but gassed.

Fedor can finish the fight ANYWHERE, at ANY MOMENT, against ANYONE on earth ( Carwin, Cain, Brock on steroids, Barnett ). You can NEVER count him out.

Ando on the other hand..

anderson_silva_gets_heel_hooked.gif


HAS lost in the past, and IS HESITANT to go to the ground. He's not nearly a complete fighter as Fedor is. This is not really bashing Ando but a testament to how legendary Fedor is. Ando will NOT engage with a BJJist. Fedor will not even think twice about jumping into Big Nog's guard.

Fedor will outstrike the striker, out grapple the grappler. He owns people in their strengths.

Anderson Silva is definitely skilled, but I think he's a bit overrated due to him not facing really tough competition.

Maia, Leites, Cote, Irvin, Lutter, Leben, Marquardt aren't really that great and he has not really won in dominating fashion against Leites or Maia. I give him props for Griffin, Hendo and Rich Franklin.

I consider the #2 P4P to be Shogun - while he has losses he only loses to top competition and it can be argued that he was not 100% against Forrest because of double knee surgery, to which he could not train his cardio for.

Shogun and Anderson Silva walk around the same weight nowadays. Let's look at Shogun's resume:

Lyoto Machida KO
Ricardo Arona KO
Alistair Overeem KO (2x)
Lil Nog ( Decision )
Chuck Liddell KO
Mark Coleman ( TKO )
Nakamura ( SUB )
Kevin Randleman ( SUB )
Rampage ( TKO )

Shogun finishes fights. He has lost to:

1) Babalu Sobral - Babalu's family member died that night and he was dedicating that night. Shogun was way too green for a seasoned Babalu. Shogun would be a favorite against Sobral today.
2) Coleman - freak accident
3) Forrest Griffin - Shogun had double knee surgery and trained no cardio. Lots of pressure so he couldn't turn down the fight.
4) Lyoto Machida - 99% of people agree he won this fight.

Anderson does not have remotely near a resume as a Fedor or Shogun so at best he makes #3 on my list. If Anderson fought and beat Rampage, Rashad, Shogun he would easily become #2.
Click to expand...

I don't want to crawl on Silva's nuts, but he certainly didn't gas against Maia. My view of him, like everyone else's, has deteriorated with his mockery and overall "wtf" actions in the ring. If Anderson truly engaged and wanted to take him or any of his past 4 fighters on, I think he would have finished the fights fairly fast. But to your point, you're right - he hasn't fought anyone of his caliber...and that's his problem - he's not respecting anyone b/c in his mind, they're not worth respecting. And therein lies the problem...until Dana can pull in capable 185lb guys, or Silva moves up to 205 for a whole slew of people he can dominate, your point stands in his competition.

In regards to him going to the ground and the GIF - that was 2004. Who hasn't lost a match since 2004? I can't think of someone whose been undefeated (legitimately) for 6 years. I would assume he's worked on his weaknesses since then. If you remember right in the Lutter fight - IIRC, Luttle had him in a triangle and in pretty bad positions for most of the first round before Spider got out. Then it was all over for poor Travis.

I agree with you that Fedor is pound for pound the best. I mean, the dood competes in sambo for fun...and wins. That's pretty badass. In regards to Rua being better...I have to disagree. Based on your list above - Coleman, Randleman, and Chuck - all 3 are past their primes when he fought them. It's cannon fodder for Rua. Went to a decision vs Nog. Same with Nakamura - that was not a submission. Impressive that he beat Machida no doubt, but I would notch him third behind Silva.
 
RagingBITCH said:
I don't want to crawl on Silva's nuts, but he certainly didn't gas against Maia. My view of him, like everyone else's, has deteriorated with his mockery and overall "wtf" actions in the ring. If Anderson truly engaged and wanted to take him or any of his past 4 fighters on, I think he would have finished the fights fairly fast. But to your point, you're right - he hasn't fought anyone of his caliber...and that's his problem - he's not respecting anyone b/c in his mind, they're not worth respecting. And therein lies the problem...until Dana can pull in capable 185lb guys, or Silva moves up to 205 for a whole slew of people he can dominate, your point stands in his competition.

In regards to him going to the ground and the GIF - that was 2004. Who hasn't lost a match since 2004? I can't think of someone whose been undefeated (legitimately) for 6 years. I would assume he's worked on his weaknesses since then. If you remember right in the Lutter fight - IIRC, Luttle had him in a triangle and in pretty bad positions for most of the first round before Spider got out. Then it was all over for poor Travis.

I agree with you that Fedor is pound for pound the best. I mean, the dood competes in sambo for fun...and wins. That's pretty badass. In regards to Rua being better...I have to disagree. Based on your list above - Coleman, Randleman, and Chuck - all 3 are past their primes when he fought them. It's cannon fodder for Rua. Went to a decision vs Nog. Same with Nakamura - that was not a submission. Impressive that he beat Machida no doubt, but I would notch him third behind Silva.
Click to expand...


Can you please list any accomplishments that Mr. Anderson Silva has that top these?

Lyoto Machida KO
Ricardo Arona KO
Alistair Overeem KO (2x)
Lil Nog ( Decision )
Chuck Liddell KO
Mark Coleman ( TKO )
Nakamura
Kevin Randleman ( SUB )
Rampage ( TKO )
Click to expand...

In addition to being the UFC LHW Champion, which is arguably the most difficult weight class and being a Pride GP winner.

Here, I tried but it still doesn't top Shogun's list:

Embarassed Forrest
Rich Franklin (2x)
Tapped Hendo
Click to expand...

Hendo, Rich and Forrest do not >>> Nakamura, Randleman, Rampage, Coleman, Arona, Overeem, Nog, Machida in my mind. I think the latter are tougher competition.

Machida is a former LHW champ.
Randleman is a former HW champ.
Rampage is a former LHW champ.
Arona was a GP runner up + ADCC champ.
Overeem has K1 level striking.
Nog is an accomplished boxer and was on the olympic team, along with his top notch BJJ.
Coleman is a former Pride GP winner and UFC HW Tourney/champ.
Nakamura is obviously the lowest of these.

Forrest is a former LHW champ.
Rich Franklin is a former MW champ.
Hendo is a former LHW and MW champ.

Beating 2 HW champs, 2 former LHW champs, K1 level striking, GP runner up + ADCC champ, Olympic level boxing + BJJ in my mind is tougher competition than 2 LHW / 2 MW champs.

Thoughts?
 
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Woosta said:
They are fast for heavyweights - Fedor moves like a middleweight while being 230 lbs. Lee's punches would just tickle Fedor.

Lee is uber slow compared to Manny Pacquiao and Mike Tyson.

I'm sorry but you're brainwashed by Hollywood cinema.
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in martial arts it isnt about physicality, it is about the superior state of mind. kareem abbdul jabbar is 7'2" and 250 lbs and bruce lee still kicked his ass
 
Woosta said:
To fight the best, Fedor would have to fight himself. I don't think that's possible.

Again...

1. Brock has fought nobody. 4-1. Lost to glass chin Mir.
2. Carwin has fought nobody, best win over glass chin Mir.
3. JDS has fought nobody, best win over washed up CroCop.
4. Cain has fought nobody, best win over washed up Nog.

Zuffa runs you.
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I love watching Fedor fight, and I would love to see him fight the winner of Brock/Carwin, Frank Mir, JDS or even Randy Couture... Are they the best in the world? Maybe not, but they are def top competition and IMO better than Werdum... much more so than say Hong Man Choi....

I think Fedors problem is M-1 management... they're looking to get paid by copromoting with Strikeforce. I can only dream that Fedor will end his career by fighting in the UFC.
 
OBLAMA2009 said:
in martial arts it isnt about physicality, it is about the superior state of mind. kareem abbdul jabbar is 7'2" and 250 lbs and bruce lee still kicked his ass
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blah blah blah blah blah.

Skill and technique can help you counter size and strength to a point yes. But with superior size and strength you need less skill to large gains.

Example: When new big guys come into bjj class I can kick their asses like it is nothing. The same with boxing. Give them 6 months and they know a bit about fighting and suddenly they have closed most of the gap between themselves and my years of training.
 
OBLAMA2009 said:
in martial arts it isnt about physicality, it is about the superior state of mind. kareem abbdul jabbar is 7'2" and 250 lbs and bruce lee still kicked his ass
Click to expand...

Other than the obvious trolling...

It is true that a smaller person can take out a bigger person by targeting susceptible areas ( namely chin, throat/eyes/critical spots )...

It is true that a smaller person can take out a bigger person if the bigger person has less experience fighting and the smaller person has much more experience and knowledge...

It is true that a smaller person can take out a bigger person who's as experienced with a lucky blow...

With that said, Bruce Lee would die against Fedor.

Let's compare their strengths and weaknesses...

Fedor:

- 230 lbs, more muscle; ability to absorb more damage for body blows
- granite chin ( see Fujita right hand )
- practices evasion / dodging
- has competed in MMA professionally, has 32+ pro fights of experience along with training
- has competed in Sambo professionally, has been champion multiple times
- has world class judo / grappling skills; no one has come close to submitting him
- has trained for wrestling / tdd
- is considerably FAST for a hw, moves like a cat for a HW ( ++ ADVANTAGE )

Bruce Lee:

- 125 lbs; faster but FAR LESS power
- hasnt competed professionally, no real world experience using his techniques other than movies
- no proven chin or ability to take hits. considering he's 125 lbs he'd probably crumble fairly quick after taking even just one shot
- utilizes a lot of fancy kicks and jump kicks
- never trained a ground game or judo
- never trained wrestling / tdd

Scenarios:

1. Bruce Lee starts with a jump kick -> Fedor knocks him out Arlovski style
2. Bruce Lee starts with a jump kick -> Fedor moves out of the way and takes him down, breaks his arm via armbar.
3. Bruce Lee starts with a flurry of fists -> Fedor would most likely absorb those or counter, one fist lands and Bruce is KO'd
4. Bruce Lee starts with a flurry of fists -> Fedor would simply shoot in and take Bruce down, Bruce is completely useless on the ground
5. Bruce Lee starts with kicks -> Fedor either counters or catches the kick and trips Bruce, Bruce is useless on the ground
6. Bruce Lee shoots in on Fedor -> Fedor's TDD + mass nullifies the takedown and counter-judo trip or takedown
7. Bruce Lee patiently tries low kicking Fedor -> Fedor checks his kicks and counter kicks, his leg mass is much more than Lee's so Lee would just be hurting himself
8. Bruce Lee opens up with a sidekick -> Fedor catches or absorbs with his beer gut belly and renders Lee useless.
9. Bruce Lee tries a roundhouse jump -> Fedor moves and Bruce just wastes his energy
10. Bruce Lee moves in to gouge the eyes -> Fedor takes him down
11. Bruce Lee tries a spinning sidekick -> Fedor clinches, knees him to death or takes him down
12. Bruce Lee opens up with a right hand -> Fedor simply evades and counter right hand with more power
13. Bruce Lee fakes and lands a right on Fedor's chin -> Fedor is used to getting hit by 200+ lbers so he probably wouldn't be phased. If Fedor however did go down, Bruce wouldn't be able to do anything while he was down since Fedor can easily outgrapple him.
14. Bruce Lee somehow eye gouges Fedor -> Fedor has his other eye and an enraged Fedor is a scary Fedor. See the asian guy who didn't shake his hand.

I can think of endless scenarios and Bruce Lee's only offense would be lucky strikes after faking.

I do not see how Bruce can win other than in a movie.
 
Oh my Woosta, you are way too into this. Just let Fedor fight Brock/Corwin and that'll be that. No more arguing.
 
it would more likely go like this:

fedor tries to jab bruce lee->bruce roundhouses fedor to the face and knocks him through plate glass window->fedor dies; bruce lee goes back into hiding
 
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