Watch the U.S. back down to avoid war with China

[Lezunto]

The visit is over. We have return our rented rowboats.

 

[Lezunto]

WTF are you smoking? The President only spends a day or two with heads of other countries, usually 2 or 3 different counties in a weeks time.. not just one. Yet you think Pelosi, who is only powerful when at home as the head of Congress, should equal that of the President? Thanks for the example of pure stupidity.

The visit is over. We have return our trays to the upright position. When that's done, resume shouting "expletives deleted."

 

[Fenixgoon]

The visit is over. We have return our trays to the upright position. When that's done, resume shouting "expletives deleted."

Duck,dodge,dip,dive...and dodge

Just accept that you were wildly wrong

 

[brycejones]

The visit is over. We have return our trays to the upright position. When that's done, resume shouting "expletives deleted."

Denial is a hell of a drug.

 

[cytg111]

Lets just hope that China is not pissed enough to start supplying Russia with... everything.

 

[Captante]

I've yet to hear a single convincing argument justifying Pelosi's visit from a single person here beyond: "she said she was going so now she has to do so".

Going public and making this a major diplomatic problem was short-sighted and selfish.... lets hope it doesn't blow up in our faces.



Cue the rants all about how this prideful stupidity has "made the world a safer place" and anyone who thought it wasn't a very good idea (including the POTUS) is "stupid and wrong" in 3, 2, 1.....




EDIT: But hey! Roy Blunt AGREE's with you so you MUST be on-target!

 

[sdifox]

I've yet to hear a single convincing argument justifying Pelosi's visit from a single person here beyond: "she said she was going so now she has to do so".

Going public and making this a major diplomatic problem was short-sighted and selfish.... lets hope it doesn't blow up in our faces.



Cue the rants all about how this prideful stupidity has "made the world a safer place" and anyone who thought it wasn't a very good idea (including the POTUS) is "stupid and wrong" in 3, 2, 1.....




EDIT: But hey! Roy Blunt AGREE's with you so you MUST be right!

The Strategic Logic of Nancy Pelosi’s Visit to Taiwan

Why did Pelosi go to Taiwan? Because Congress’ stance is particularly important for ensuring U.S. deterrence.

thediplomat.com

 

[Captante]

Took a bit longer then I expected but right on cue.

Pelosi's visit was provocation (and largely self-serving at that) not deterrence based on what actually happened.

The only thing it "accomplished" was to raise tensions.



Next?

 

[uclaLabrat]

Took a bit longer then I expected but right on cue.

Pelosi's visit was provocation (and largely self-serving at that) not deterrence based on what actually happened.

The only thing it "accomplished" was to raise tensions.



Next?

Presumably it sends a very compelling message: you think taiwan is the next ukraine youre seriously miscalculating.

I think that is very much a message worth sending. Its not as overt as a head of state visit, yet the implication is similar.

It might have the ancillary benefit of throwing the PRC in such a tizzy they overreact on foreign owned business, driving future operations out of china. Probably not back home, but to other less volatile countries. Although that is like 5% likelihood.

 

[Captante]

Time will tell. (and that's the ONLY thing that will)

FWIW I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I see no evidence of it.... what I was expecting was exactly what we got. Increased risk of conflict.

How can the fact that the far-right freaking L-O-V-E-D this move and Biden hated it not be enough to clue people in? Scary.

 

[sdifox]

Took a bit longer then I expected but right on cue.

Pelosi's visit was provocation (and largely self-serving at that) not deterrence based on what actually happened.

The only thing it "accomplished" was to raise tensions.



Next?

you have no idea how America works do you? This is entirely in America's interest. This is a reminder to PRC just as America switched allegiance in 1969 from ROC to PRC, it can as easily switch back. It's called check and balance.

PRC spends more on internal security than it's outward facing forces. That is their main concern.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If China does go to war over Taiwan, what happens to Chinese owned assets in the US? Is there some clause in the sale agreement that the asset goes back to being owned by the original seller? Or if it's a 99 year lease, does war lead to early termination of the lease?

 

[sdifox]

Congress can draw up any forfeiture law it desires. PRC is welcome to fight it in the American courts. Good luck with that.

 

[Captante]

So you "experts" really are claiming that tensions are LOWER now?

But I have no idea how things work.... just precious. (at least I'm not on the same side of the argument as Roy Blunt and the Dumpster!)

 

[sdifox]

So you "experts" really are claiming that tensions are LOWER now?

But I have no idea how things work.... how precious.

who said tension is lower? This is USA showing it has many sticks.

 

[Pens1566]

Congress can draw up any forfeiture law it desires. PRC is welcome to fight it in the American courts. Good luck with that.

This ^. Any number of economic sanctions/punishments would be on the table.

 

[Captante]

who said tension is lower? This is USA showing it has many sticks.

Including one up its a$$.

You, Trump and the far-right members of congress are on the same page on this issue.

 

[uclaLabrat]

So you "experts" really are claiming that tensions are LOWER now?

But I have no idea how things work.... just precious. (at least I'm not on the same side of the argument as Roy Blunt and the Dumpster!)

I dont think tensions are lower at all. But its clear the PRC is getting animated towards Taiwan, and sending the message that our involvement wouldnt be relegated to sending surplus equipment via 3rd party countires a la ukraine is very much deterrence.

 

[Captante]

I dont think tensions are lower at all. But its clear the PRC is getting animated towards Taiwan, and sending the message that our involvement wouldnt be relegated to sending surplus equipment via 3rd party countires a la ukraine is very much deterrence.

How does intentionally insulting another country that we (supposedly) are trying to foster goodwill with and count on for trade make anything better unless you make a living selling advanced weaponry to the US military?

But we "showed them" alright. I feel SO much safer now!

 

[fskimospy]

How does intentionally insulting another country that we (supposedly) are trying to foster goodwill with and count on for trade make anything better unless you make a living selling advanced weaponry to the US military?

But we "showed them" alright. I feel SO much safer now!

How many times do you need this explained? Showing support for Taiwan indicates to China that we will not sit idly by if they decide to attack. This raises the costs of invasion and there’s a good case that makes China less likely to do it.

Now you can disagree with that of course but there’s no need to pretend you haven’t been told.

 

[sdifox]

Including one up its a$$.

You, Trump and the far-right members of congress are on the same page on this issue.

Being Taiwanese, I pay attention to what happens in US, China and Taiwan on the purposefully muddy situation US created.

 

[Captante]

Being Taiwanese, I pay attention to what happens in US, China and Taiwan on the purposefully muddy situation US created.

Hard to believe you think this was "just fine".... if I had people I cared about in Taiwan I'd be pretty dang worried. It WOULD be stupid for China to invade Taiwan but I see people do stupid stuff all the time.

This visit accomplished nothing but moving us a step closer to war.

 

[uclaLabrat]

How does intentionally insulting another country that we (supposedly) are trying to foster goodwill with and count on for trade make anything better unless you make a living selling advanced weaponry to the US military?

But we "showed them" alright. I feel SO much safer now!

Because that's how deterrence works. You make plain that our commitment to taiwan is real and you explicitly (or implicitly in the case of diplomacy) reiterate in diplomatic terms that the calculus of their machinations towards taiwan will incur a (hopefully unacceptably) incredibly high loss.

You dont project the notion that were all singing kumbaya cause we want to cooperate. We do. But if you cross that line it all goes out the window. That needs to be plainly understood so as to effectively balance their cost/benefit analysis.

If they have the mistaken impression wed sit idly by as they invaded, wed be inviting that scenario.

That was the same mistake that led to ukraine, russia assumed we wouldnt do shit. That was the same mistake that led to the first gulf war. Saddam assumed we wouldnt do shit. If leaders of PRC think they can initiate wars of conquest to minimal cost, WTF you think theyre going to do? Deterrence doesnt work once missiles and bullets are flying.

 

[Captante]

So why did the American president AND our military leadership agree with ME?

(Not you folks)

"Appeasement" and not being a dick are two different things.

 

[sdifox]

Hard to believe you think this was "just fine".... if I had people I cared about in Taiwan I'd be pretty dang worried. It WOULD be stupid for China to invade Taiwan but I see people do stupid stuff all the time.

This visit accomplished nothing but moving us a step closer to war.

this is not new. it's been happening for decades. Business as usual lol.