Wasted $140 on a plumber, could have done it myself.

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
I was changing out a gas range and the way to do it is to secure a plumber's wrench on the shut-off valve and another wrench on the nut of the flex hose to loosen it. You keep the shut-off valve from turning while you apply torque to the nut and then remove the flex hose. At least that's how it was supposed to happen.

I was holding the shut-off valve steady when I hear a high pitched breaking noise. Like when you break a dish, but higher pitched and you could tell it was metal snapping. Somehow, and I don't know how, I managed to fracture the shutoff valve! :eek: I could see the edges of the break clearly and gas under pressure was flowing out of the broken valve with no way for me to shut it off!!! :eek: D:

I released the wrench and the edges of the valve slammed back shut. The flow of gas seemed to stop. Temporarily relieved, I had no choice but to call the gas company. I suspected that the valve may still be slowly leaking and would need my service shut off at the meter. I called an emergency in and the gas tech shows up in 15 minutes. Pulls the gas tester out and verified there even though he can see a crack, there is no more leak. Advises that we will need to get the shut-off valve changed because broken/faulty equipment is technically in violation of the agreement and he could shut off my service for this. His price to change it was $250 and I thought I should call a plumber in the area since that was high. He said he wasn't going to turn off my service since it was 10 degrees and doing so would prevent me from being able to heat the house. The valve was secure and no longer leaking so it didn't present a threat as long as I didn't try to use it again. To that end, he did screw a cap with thread-locker in the end of the shut-off valve, effectively rendering it useless and forcing me to change it. In his opinion, this kind of stuff happens all the time: sometimes you torque the valve the right way and it breaks. The valve is made of brass which is not the strongest metal.

I call a plumber later to come and fix it, thinking that I will need someone to turn off the service at the meter so there is no pressure at the valve when I'm trying to change it. The plumber agrees on the phone that this is what will need to be done. Instead the plumber arrives and proceeds to change the valve without shutting off the gas service first! I heard the gas hissing out of the open end of the pipe as he then fitted a new fitting and shutoff valve. All in all, he was done in 4 minutes. It took him longer to write up the damn bill than to change the broken fitting. $140!!

Now to tell the truth, I have also done it this way too but not in my own house. I was helping a buddy install a gas dryer in his basement and we needed to extend the gas line to the other end of the basement. Stunned I watched him add new sections of gas line to the pressurized line without turning off the service! Everytime he opened the end of the pipe to add a new section, gas escaped. Doing it this way in your own house is one thing, but I was stunned that a professional plumber would run that risk on a job. But realistically, the pipe only flowed for 10 seconds and barely any gas smell in the kitchen.

Moral of this story: plumbers are useless and I'll do it myself next time :p
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,089
34,384
136
I don't need no professional to blow up my house; I can do that all by myself.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
You are just now replacing your tenant's stove? That shit has been broke for like 2 years.

Also...think of how many waxings that $140 could have bought your girlfriend.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Is the main gas meter under ground or locked?

Here in NoVA just use a wrench and turn the main line on/off at the meter as you need to.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
126
The real question is, could YOU have done it in the 4 minutes it took him? Seems worth the money to have somebody do it who will minimize the time the line is open.

Also, it sounds odd that the only shutoff valve you have control over is the one you need to work on in these scenarios. Shouldn't there be another one further up the line? I guess I've never checked all of my gas lines to see.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
7,429
3,035
146
The real question is, could YOU have done it in the 4 minutes it took him? Seems worth the money to have somebody do it who will minimize the time the line is open.

Also, it sounds odd that the only shutoff valve you have control over is the one you need to work on in these scenarios. Shouldn't there be another one further up the line? I guess I've never checked all of my gas lines to see.
Depends on where you live, what the local codes are and how the previous owners setup the line. My home has a valve at the stove one in the basement where the gas line comes into the house and like Jimzz mentioned the main outside also has one that you can shut off with a crescent wrench.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
I broke the shutoff that was behind the stove. There is another shutoff further upstream at the gas meter (accessible and outside the building) which shuts off service to the entire house. I cannot technically touch that as the meter is is property of the gas company. You also need a special tool to turn that shutoff but I think with a wrench I could do it. I still don't want to touch it because if I break it, I have to pay for it.

The real question is, could YOU have done it in the 4 minutes it took him? Seems worth the money to have somebody do it who will minimize the time the line is open.

I probably could have done it in as much time as he took. I have some plumbing experience and have threaded and worked with piping. I was reluctant to work on a live gas line because I had no way to shut off the service. Now that I saw this plumber successfully and quickly change the shutoff without doing that, I have more confidence to do that myself if I ever need to in the future.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
1. I'm amazed that even if code doesn't require it, that people are happy without their own gas shutoff for the house. In the event that the gas was just leaking out, there's no way a homeowner would be able to mitigate the problem.

2. Since the gas company guy made the situation relatively safe again, unlike everyone else, you didn't post here about it. (Responses would range from "OMG, you're probably an idiot like me and would blow your house up!" to "uh, I could have my 10 year old kid do it." See 3.

3. Have your teflon tape - the YELLOW stuff, not the white stuff ready, and have the new valve ready. Pipe wrench on the pipe, loosen valve with adjustable wrench until you can spin it freely by hand. Unscrew the valve the rest of the way, put your thumb over the hole, wrap teflon tape with the other hand, grab valve, and quickly position it over the pipe while removing your thumb, screw it on. Mix up some dish soap in water and spray it on (or brush it on) the fitting. Watch to make sure there are no little bubbles.

I presume the 4 minutes included the time for him to write up the bill.

edit: had the tab open - now I see your post above. Yep - a tiny bit of gas escaping is no big deal, and a hell of a lot better than the hassle of shutting the gas off to your other appliances, winding up with air inside the gas line and having to bleed it out, etc.
 
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Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
Gas lines are only at 4psi on that side of the regulator. If he was able to swap the valve out quick enough, with the valve open...there's no problem. The gas wouldn't ever get dense enough to pose serious threat unless you were smoking in the room.

What's crazy though is if he had the wrong size pipe or if the threads were screwed up or something, that could have turned into a 5-10 minute change out...where the gas density could have been a little more scary. (depending on the size of the room and ventilation) That's why he was stupid for doing that...
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,338
136
1. I'm amazed that even if code doesn't require it, that people are happy without their own gas shutoff for the house. In the event that the gas was just leaking out, there's no way a homeowner would be able to mitigate the problem.

2. Since the gas company guy made the situation relatively safe again, unlike everyone else, you didn't post here about it. (Responses would range from "OMG, you're probably an idiot like me and would blow your house up!" to "uh, I could have my 10 year old kid do it." See 3.

3. Have your teflon tape - the YELLOW stuff, not the white stuff ready, and have the new valve ready. Pipe wrench on the pipe, loosen valve with adjustable wrench until you can spin it freely by hand. Unscrew the valve the rest of the way, put your thumb over the hole, wrap teflon tape with the other hand, grab valve, and quickly position it over the pipe while removing your thumb, screw it on. Mix up some dish soap in water and spray it on (or brush it on) the fitting. Watch to make sure there are no little bubbles.

I presume the 4 minutes included the time for him to write up the bill.

edit: had the tab open - now I see your post above. Yep - a tiny bit of gas escaping is no big deal, and a hell of a lot better than the hassle of shutting the gas off to your other appliances, winding up with air inside the gas line and having to bleed it out, etc.
There is the shutoff at the logs (the only gas we use) but the only other shutoff is at the meter but it's right beside the house, in plain sight. When we had a gas pack, there was a valve there.

IIRC, there's only about 3lbs of pressure coming out of the line so you could easily stop the flow with your finger.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
1. I'm amazed that even if code doesn't require it, that people are happy without their own gas shutoff for the house. In the event that the gas was just leaking out, there's no way a homeowner would be able to mitigate the problem.
Something to think about, a master shut off located after the gas meter demarc that i can shut off in event of emergency. If this truly had been an emergency situation, rules or no rules, I would have tried to turn that outdoor shutoff on my own and stopped the flow of gas.

2. Since the gas company guy made the situation relatively safe again, unlike everyone else, you didn't post here about it. (Responses would range from "OMG, you're probably an idiot like me and would blow your house up!" to "uh, I could have my 10 year old kid do it." See 3.

3. Have your teflon tape - the YELLOW stuff, not the white stuff ready, and have the new valve ready. Pipe wrench on the pipe, loosen valve with adjustable wrench until you can spin it freely by hand. Unscrew the valve the rest of the way, put your thumb over the hole, wrap teflon tape with the other hand, grab valve, and quickly position it over the pipe while removing your thumb, screw it on. Mix up some dish soap in water and spray it on (or brush it on) the fitting. Watch to make sure there are no little bubbles.

I presume the 4 minutes included the time for him to write up the bill.

it took him longer to write up the bill! The 4 minutes was the time it took him to create a shutoff fitting, coupler and union to the flex hose. After that was created, he disconnected the old shutoff valve and quickly reconnected the new shutoff with new downstream already assembled stuff. The gas flowed out of the open piping for maybe 10 seconds while he swapped pipes. Yes use the yellow stuff is for gas and not the white tape for water. The plumber didn't use yellow tape, he used this blue pipe dope instead. I just hope it can easily break loose if I ever have to change this stove in the future and need to unscrew the flex hose.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Remember the $140 is not for just changing the valve but also their experience/knowledge, tools, and parts they keep as well.

If things turned bad or took longer he would, should have, been ready to fix it quickly and safely.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Remember the $140 is not for just changing the valve but also their experience/knowledge, tools, and parts they keep as well.

If things turned bad or took longer he would, should have, been ready to fix it quickly and safely.

That's how I'm viewing this. Paid for a learning experience on how to change this kind of pipe in the future.
 

spacelord

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2002
2,127
0
76
Paying to have things done professionally saves me about 4 trips to Home Depot buying tools and parts, a ton of swear words, and my general sanity.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
I had a similar experience when we had the gas lines from some propane tanks to an old gas dryer removed. The gas company tech removed them without turning off the gas, which caused my entire basement to smell like propane for the better part of a week. I almost killed the guy it was such a stupid thing to do (all he had to do was turn the valves on the gas bottles off).

That said, I usually pay for professional plumbing services. Not because I do not think I could do the job myself. But rather because a professional plumber is insured . . . so there is recourse in the event something goes wrong.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
126
When the utility company needs to install a new branch from the main, higher pressure gas line under the street they usually don't shut off service to the whole neighborhood. They quickly pierce the line and install their fitting.
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
I had a similar experience when we had the gas lines from some propane tanks to an old gas dryer removed. The gas company tech removed them without turning off the gas, which caused my entire basement to smell like propane for the better part of a week. I almost killed the guy it was such a stupid thing to do (all he had to do was turn the valves on the gas bottles off).

That said, I usually pay for professional plumbing services. Not because I do not think I could do the job myself. But rather because a professional plumber is insured . . . so there is recourse in the event something goes wrong.

That doesn't sound like a slow 10 second leak! Sounds like the line leaked for quite some time!
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I had a similar experience when we had the gas lines from some propane tanks to an old gas dryer removed. The gas company tech removed them without turning off the gas, which caused my entire basement to smell like propane for the better part of a week. I almost killed the guy it was such a stupid thing to do (all he had to do was turn the valves on the gas bottles off).

That said, I usually pay for professional plumbing services. Not because I do not think I could do the job myself. But rather because a professional plumber is insured . . . so there is recourse in the event something goes wrong.

Exactly. I'll do small stuff but if there's a chance of a big leak if I mess up then I'm not risking it. Say everything looks good but a huge leak happens when you're away.

I know gas is relatively easy, but I still don't to mess with the consequences of not getting it right.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,718
13,850
126
www.anyf.ca
DIY gas is usually a bad idea. Electrical, fine, water, makes me a bit nervous, but fine too. Gas, I don't touch that. I don't even think you're suppose to. Need to be a licensed pipe fitter to touch that.

You need special threading tools for gas line too, please tell me you did not solder it. :eek: