Washington asks, what to do about Israel

[Lemon law]

Excuse me IHV and Common Courtesy, as you both assert the land seized in the 1967&73 belongs to Israel by right of conquest.

In one word, WRONG.

We can divide world history into two distinct periods.

The time before the formation of the United Nations when gaining land by right of conquest had occasional validity.

And the time after the formation of the UN when the right of land gained by right of conquest was declared a totally invalid concept.

Since the UN is still standing and not abolished, and any Israeli legitimacy rests on its 1948 creation by the UN, guess which side of the historical divide Israel lives in.

If the UN tells Israel what think it must ultimately do, namely tell Israel to go back to their 1948 borders, Israel must comply or face the combined military might of the world. But rather than use a military might, a simple economic embargo will be more effective.

And if you wonder why we don't have an economic embargo in place against Iran, its simply the case that Iran still retains many friends, as for Israel, they seem determined to alienate everyone.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You're nothing but a worthless troll... I'd really like to see a moderator give you a quick smackdown. I've seen nothing but utterly worthless garbage from you in thread after thread...

I totally agree!!

It takes idiots like Flavio to think that prisoners of war were simply kidnapped.....
It takes an even bigger idiot to say that the Israeli soldeir was somehow a prisoner of war since obviosly he was in a military uniform....

 

[Noobtastic]

Excuse me IHV and Common Courtesy, as you both assert the land seized in the 1967&73 belongs to Israel by right of conquest.

we had a similar convo several weeks ago on the six day war, which you lost.

67 war was a war of self-defense. UN242 confirmed israel's right to self-defense, arabs war was a war based on bigotry and destruction.

there is no "conquest." israel is the size of your fingernail.

we are conquerers. the arabs are conquerers.

jews just want to live in peace.

go back to britain you trolling settler.

im waiting.

 

[kylebisme]

and even assuming your interpretation, so what?

So your interpretation is a flagrant distortion of reality, which is why you can't cite anything even vaguely resembling an impartial source to back your argument, and hence are left to slander me instead.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Excuse me IHV and Common Courtesy, as you both assert the land seized in the 1967&73 belongs to Israel by right of conquest.

In one word, WRONG.

We can divide world history into two distinct periods.

The time before the formation of the United Nations when gaining land by right of conquest had occasional validity.

And the time after the formation of the UN when the right of land gained by right of conquest was declared a totally invalid concept.

Since the UN is still standing and not abolished, and any Israeli legitimacy rests on its 1948 creation by the UN, guess which side of the historical divide Israel lives in.

If the UN tells Israel what think it must ultimately do, namely tell Israel to go back to their 1948 borders, Israel must comply or face the combined military might of the world. But rather than use a military might, a simple economic embargo will be more effective.

And if you wonder why we don't have an economic embargo in place against Iran, its simply the case that Iran still retains many friends, as for Israel, they seem determined to alienate everyone.

As usual lemon law is re-writing history...
With the formation of the Un.....did not change the right of the victor to seize the land from the loser of the war....

 

[Lemon law]

As usual lemon law is re-writing history...
With the formation of the Un.....did not change the right of the victor to seize the land from the loser of the war....

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It does not surprise me that you disagree with me saying something, by its a little harder to argue with the facts and the UN charter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest

Its why Gaza and the West Bank, as well as other land is properly referred to as disputed and not owned by Israel.

 

[kylebisme]

Rather, Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are rightly referred to as Palestinian territory under international law. However, Zionists insist on calling them "disputed" and even part of their "Eternal Capital" (even though Tel Aviv is their original capital and what every other nation still officially considers the capital of Israel) instead, because they reject international law.

 

[Zebo]

Excuse me IHV and Common Courtesy, as you both assert the land seized in the 1967&73 belongs to Israel by right of conquest.

In one word, WRONG.

We can divide world history into two distinct periods.

The time before the formation of the United Nations when gaining land by right of conquest had occasional validity.

And the time after the formation of the UN when the right of land gained by right of conquest was declared a totally invalid concept.

Since the UN is still standing and not abolished, and any Israeli legitimacy rests on its 1948 creation by the UN, guess which side of the historical divide Israel lives in.

If the UN tells Israel what think it must ultimately do, namely tell Israel to go back to their 1948 borders, Israel must comply or face the combined military might of the world. But rather than use a military might, a simple economic embargo will be more effective.

And if you wonder why we don't have an economic embargo in place against Iran, its simply the case that Iran still retains many friends, as for Israel, they seem determined to alienate everyone.

Lie - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine
Furthermore Israel Is supposed to include all of Jordan too under original mandate.

 

[PandaBear]

Stop giving Israel money, stop giving Israel's enemies money, and leave the situation alone. Completely remove ourselves as a variable in the equation that is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. We have enough problems at home.

Agree. Israel is sufficient in buying whatever weapon it wants and invade, take consequent of being invade, for its own action. Let them deal with the daily suicide bombing because they are occupying someone else's land as settlement.

Meanwhile let the ME terrorists focus on Israel instead of the west/US, because for God's sake, they also need to take consequence of their actions.

Fvck these guys, I have nothing to do with either of them.

 

[Lemon law]

Lie - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine
Furthermore Israel Is supposed to include all of Jordan too under original mandate.

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Zebo, in all due respect, your link may have covered a time before the formation of the UN, but has nothing to do with nothing now.

 

[kylebisme]

Furthermore Israel Is supposed to include all of Jordan too under original mandate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

This map shows what Israel was supposed to included when the UN partitioned Palestine. On the other hand, the map you posted is of the British Mandate of Palestine, including the territory of Transjordan which was incorporated into the Mandate a year after it was established, and granted independence in 1946.

 

[Jhhnn]

Cutting them loose it what scares the Palestinian supporters.

As much as they may hate Israel and the US support; the US influence may be the only thing stopping Israel from cleaning house next time.

Israel does not trust the prmises of the UN and Arabs. Everytime they have started a house cleaning; the Palestinians run for cover of the UN and the US steps in to ask Israel to back off and provide a chance.

Now, if there is no US to run to; what can the Palestinians do? Appeal to the UN. They UN has shown that it will not do anything decisively and quickly. the Palestinians will be own there own to reap what they sowed.

Well, CC, Israel is going to have a major PR crisis on their hands if they attempt to annihilate the Pals while playing holocaust victim. The latter being the raison de etre for the existence of Israel, and for the self imposed American guilt trip wrt to it. Few Americans will allow themselves to think or speak straight about Israel because of that collective guilt trip, and because of the fear of being labelled as an anti-semite, a term that took on entirely new and negative connotations after the holocaust. Jews and Israel are the same thing when it conveniences zionists, entirely different things when it doesn't.

If the Israelis engage in that kind of aggression and repression, w/o US veto in the UN, Israel would be subject to numerous crippling sanctions, not to mention the loss of US aid funds, spare parts for their air force, ordnance for their weapons systems, so forth and so on.

Like I said, I'm sure they can see reason if forced to it, but they obviously won't find it of their own free will, and certainly not with Uncle Sam backing their every move.

Reference the ongoing raving in this thread and every other on the subject of the middle east. Israel Rocks. Arabs Suck. You suck if you say anything negative about Israel, and everything else sucks, anyway, so Israel can do what she wants. That's the whole progression in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, Israel always seems to find some reason, any reason, to not actually reach constructive compromise with their neighbors, including the Pals. That's because they've successfully manipulated and exploited American public opinion for 60 years, and have had the US govt by the heartstrings of the public.

The US is currently in a position where we need our Israeli friends to hold up their end of the friendship, recognize that our support will necessarily be more conditional as time goes on. It has to be, in terms of our own national security, which is why they need to change direction a little bit, try making an honest deal, with some sacrifice, and sticking to it, despite provocations that a very small minority of Pals and arabs in general might perpetrate against them.

They'll end up backing themselves into a corner if they don't, and I certainly don't want that, nor does most anybody else.

 

[kylebisme]

Cutting them loose it what scares the Palestinian supporters.

As much as they may hate Israel and the US support; the US influence may be the only thing stopping Israel from cleaning house next time.

Rather, it scares you to the point that you turn to thoughts of slaughtering Palestinians en masse, while everyone human rights supporter knows the world will never let any psychopaths ever go that far. To most of us, "Never Again!" applies to everyone, not just Jews.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Rather, it scares you to the point that you turn to thoughts of slaughtering Palestinians en masse, while everyone human rights supporter knows the world will never let any psychopaths ever go that far. To most of us, "Never Again!" applies to everyone, not just Jews.

Where do you see any thoughts of "slaughtering Palestinians" from me.

Well, CC, Israel is going to have a major PR crisis on their hands if they attempt to annihilate the Pals while playing holocaust victim.

Same - where am I expounding on annihilalting the Palestinians.



While I fully agree in that the Palestinians should wallow in the mess that they have endorsed; the only "slaughter/annihilalting " that I would call for is the Hamas leadership that has deliberately made life difficult for the Palestinians that trusted them to improve their life.

Without a brake on the Israelis; the next incident would trigger the expected response but with a no holds barred aproach to completing the job.

We have seenwhat the world opinion/response has been every other time the Pals (PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah) and Arabs have triggered an Israeli reaction.

Nothing expect to protect the instigators from getting whipped by pleading with Israel to stop.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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It does not surprise me that you disagree with me saying something, by its a little harder to argue with the facts and the UN charter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_conquest

Its why Gaza and the West Bank, as well as other land is properly referred to as disputed and not owned by Israel.

Where is the world against Japan vs Russia on land taken in conquest?

Or does the rules apply only to the Israelis

 

[kylebisme]

Where do you see any thoughts of "slaughtering Palestinians" from me.

I saw you cheering it on during the 2009 Gaza massacre, and dreaming of further slaughter in your call for "cleaning house next time."

 

[Noobtastic]

Rather, Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, are rightly referred to as Palestinian territory under international law. However, Zionists insist on calling them "disputed" and even part of their "Eternal Capital" (even though Tel Aviv is their original capital and what every other nation still officially considers the capital of Israel) instead, because they reject international law.

wrong.

west bank, gaza, and east jerusalem has never been part of a "sovereign palestine."

if you knew anything about oslo 1, oslo 2, camp david, or international law - none of it refers to as "palestinian territory.

jordan and egypt were the original occupiers of jerusalem, west bank and gaza - not the PLO.

palestinians don't even have a fuctioning government.

every nation has a right to choose its capital and jerusalem is israel's capital. it has always been the capital of the jews.

rejectionism and stupidity has always been the fault of israel's enemies.

muslim states have tried to use the UN to write up their own laws, and leftist dubiously cite "international law" as if that has any bearance.

I saw you cheering it on during the 2009 Gaza massacre, and dreaming of further slaughter in your call for "cleaning house next time."

what an arabist.

gaza massacre...LOLZ. talk about propaganda and buzzwords.

what's it like livin it up in saudi arabia?

 

[Lemon law]

Where is the world against Japan vs Russia on land taken in conquest?

Or does the rules apply only to the Israelis

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Do you have reading comprehension problems Common Courtesy? You can cite endless examples of pre the formation of the UN when a different set of rules somewhat applied, but they have nothing to do with nothing now.

In short, the UN rules apply to everyone including Israel, now if you want to rebut my point, or more accurately put the UN doctrine, name a single nation, any nation that gained ANY land by right of conquest post the formation of the UN.

And please do not count the break up of the former Soviet Union, or the reunification of Vietnam.

 

[Noobtastic]

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Do you have reading comprehension problems Common Courtesy? You can cite endless examples of pre the formation of the UN when a different set of rules somewhat applied, but they have nothing to do with nothing now.

In short, the UN rules apply to everyone including Israel, now if you want to rebut my point, name a single nation, any nation that gained ANY land by right of conquest post the formation of the UN.

And please do not count the break up of the former Soviet Union, or the reunification of Vietnam.

please provide me a UNSC resolution that said israel took any land in conquest, troll.

 

[kylebisme]

It's your fellow bigoted nutcases who claim Israel took the Palestinian territories by "right" of conquest, while international law does not allow for anything of the sort, and one can find a list of the UNSC resolutions in that regard here.

 

[Noobtastic]

It's your fellow bigoted nutcases who claim Israel took the Palestinian territories by "right" of conquest, while international law does not allow for anything of the sort, and one can find a list of the UNSC resolutions in that regard here.

please specify what UNSC resolution that says Israel took Palestinian land.

NO UN resolution condemns Israel for taking Palestinian land.

UNSC 242 don't even mention a so-called "Palestine" because WB and Gaza were sovereign Arab land, not Palestinian.

Even to this day the Palestinians won't claim independence, because they would be forfeiting their refugee and victimhood status.

 

[Lemon law]

please provide me a UNSC resolution that said israel took any land in conquest, troll.

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Ok , IHV, let me put it to you this way, suppose I am a Swedish Jew in Malmo Sweden, I live simply, I do not do anything to offend anyone, I simply want to love and let live.

Then one fine day a screaming mob of Swedish imported Muslims, breaks into my house, and steals everything I own. So I run to the Malmo police and say, I was robbed, now please arrest, and punish the people that robbed me and restore what was taken from me.

And sadly and maybe we can both agree on that fact, the Malmo police simply say, that is your problem and we will do nothing to help you. Now riddle me this, is that antisemitism in action, or a simple case of theft? Or is it case of the cops not doing the job they should do? Or better put, all three all wrapped up in one.

The Israeli problem is that exact analogy was used against the Palestinian people, they got too robbed by Israel, their land stolen, their possessions looted, by the Israeli victors of the 1948 war.

And if we want to consider the cops who ignored their plight for 62 years are in fact the international community, we have exactly that Malmo police analogy applying to Palestinians.

But I also say to you IHV, just because the cops were once total jerks, does not mean that one fine day, there will not be a new Sheriff in town. And not only be a tiny bit better than the old Sheriff, but in fact open up every damn cold case file ignored by the Old Sheriff. And in so doing right many many many old wrongs. I hope that occurs in both Malmo, Sweden and in Israel. And also to Jewish land stolen by Arabs around the same time.

But the real causality in this whole Israeli blockade is the Israeli propaganda, the international cops are coming to the realization that Israel was the party that robbed the Palestinians, and that is the wrong that must be addressed first.

No one denies these problems would have far easier to solve if the international cops had acted in 1949, but the realization now is that we must act now.

 

[EagleKeeper]

So the Palestinians should be rewarded for trying to do the same thing to Israel but worse.
The Palestinians w/ the Arabs had no intention of just standing by - they were looking for the exterminiation.

They made their choices; live with it until they change their ways

 

[EagleKeeper]

LL - Where did the UN ever criticize and penalize the Arabs for attacking Israel and trying to controlling Israeli land authorized by the UN.

Washing needs to decide do they want to deal with the headaches or stay out of the mess. We should have learned by now that sticking our noses into the Muslim world does not get us anything but a bloodied nose.

The world does not appreciate a good hearts assistance in that part of the world.

The Palestinians do not want to be good neighbors, nor are they allowed to try because of their sponsors.

 

[nageov3t]

Lemon, how soon can we expect you to give your home and property away to a native American family?