SamurAchzar
Platinum Member
- Feb 15, 2006
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- Nov 6, 2005
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Are you being deliberately sarcastic or not, we done invaded Iraq, and been there done that, it tasted like shit and cost a bundle.
flavio
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 6,823
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are you dense?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_prisoner_exchanges
israel released 10 palestinian terrorists last year for a VIDEO OF A CAPTURED SOLDIER. Israel released SAMIR KUNTAR for the DEAD BODIES OF SOLDIERS.
You are drawing moral paralells between israel and the palestinians.
it's like comparing the US military, and the hundreds of thousands of combatants we hold, versus the half a dozen US army soldiers al-qaeda had kidnapped and executed.
can you imagine any other government releasing convicted terrorists for the clothes of a dead soldier?
hell no.
you are an idiot flavio. a moral idiot.
it can complain when that soldier was kidnapped and refused visitation rights, refused red cross aid.
can you not tell the difference between rapists, murderers, drug-dealers and an american soldier?
when a US soldier is captured by al-qaeda, do you say to yourself..."well, it's okay - because we hold so many al-qaeda suspects."
it's stupid logic.
you really are detached from reality.
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flavio
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 6,823
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Are all the thousand of people being held convicted terrorists?
hell no.
Once again you act like a chiild throwing a tantrum when you have no point.
Are all the people Israel is holding given visitation rights and red cross aid?
Are you calling all the people being held murderers, rapists, and drug dealers? Please prove your claims.
yeah, in fact hamas supportors were recently bitching that israel planned on cutting on the visitation days.
quite ironic since they execute their criminals, and keep the rest in torture dungeons, much like the rest of the muslim world.
of course, you are most outraged at israel - where homicidal muslims are treated like infants.
if israel captured osama bin laden, it would release him for the hair of a captured soldier.
you ask silly questions you already know the answers to, you defend terrorist groups like hamas and you are just a stupid stupid person.
flavio
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 6,823
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What to do with Israel?
Bring 'em to heel or cut 'em loose, with all that implies...
I'm sure they'll see reason, only when it's absolutely necessary...
They're so accustomed to having the Israeli tail wag the American dog that they'll have a very tough time coming to terms with that...
Bring 'em to heel or cut 'em loose, with all that implies...
I'm sure they'll see reason, only when it's absolutely necessary...
They're so accustomed to having the Israeli tail wag the American dog that they'll have a very tough time coming to terms with that...
- Oct 30, 2000
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Cutting them loose it what scares the Palestinian supporters.
As much as they may hate Israel and the US support; the US influence may be the only thing stopping Israel from cleaning house next time.
Israel does not trust the prmises of the UN and Arabs. Everytime they have started a house cleaning; the Palestinians run for cover of the UN and the US steps in to ask Israel to back off and provide a chance.
Now, if there is no US to run to; what can the Palestinians do? Appeal to the UN. They UN has shown that it will not do anything decisively and quickly. the Palestinians will be own there own to reap what they sowed.
- Nov 6, 2005
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Even though Common Courtesy may correct that Israel may have the capacity, lets look at his statement of, "As much as they may hate Israel and the US support; the US influence may be the only thing stopping Israel from cleaning house next time."
Usually, the nation that goes off on a house cleaning mission must have a justification to do so. In the case of Hitler invading Poland, he invented a provocation by dressing German troops up in Polish uniforms to take over a radio Station.
The point being, no one believed that phony provocation and Israel has to have some real genuine reasons, or Israel becomes the aggressor that needs to be stopped.
Israel is now in the same situation, because nations with far more nukes than Israel have will not allow Israel to clean any houses in the mid-east, too damn close to all that lovely oil if nothing else.
Usually, the nation that goes off on a house cleaning mission must have a justification to do so. In the case of Hitler invading Poland, he invented a provocation by dressing German troops up in Polish uniforms to take over a radio Station.
The point being, no one believed that phony provocation and Israel has to have some real genuine reasons, or Israel becomes the aggressor that needs to be stopped.
Israel is now in the same situation, because nations with far more nukes than Israel have will not allow Israel to clean any houses in the mid-east, too damn close to all that lovely oil if nothing else.
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- Oct 30, 2000
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You may be misunderstanding the use of cleaning house.
Israel can sweep Hamas out the door and let Fatah back into the Gaza picture.
Gaza can be rebuilt as a friendly state.
Every time Israel has entered the Gaza territory, it has been because the Palestinians in control have allowed a trigger and misjudged the effects of the trigger.
The people that are anti-Israel will happily supply the trigger ignoring the consequence of such. And without Israel not having the US looking over her shoulder (premise of this thread); what restrain does Israel have to eliminate the Hamas issue?
At present, Fatah is quiet and learning that positive relations with Israel may be better than hostile (allowing for the radicals that want to keep purity). Hamas and Hezbollah are the ones with the radical sponsors that can not accept for Israel to exist.
Let them back into Gaza (Hamas has been exterminated) and nurture them along aiming for a two state solution.
Israel can sweep Hamas out the door and let Fatah back into the Gaza picture.
Gaza can be rebuilt as a friendly state.
Every time Israel has entered the Gaza territory, it has been because the Palestinians in control have allowed a trigger and misjudged the effects of the trigger.
The people that are anti-Israel will happily supply the trigger ignoring the consequence of such. And without Israel not having the US looking over her shoulder (premise of this thread); what restrain does Israel have to eliminate the Hamas issue?
At present, Fatah is quiet and learning that positive relations with Israel may be better than hostile (allowing for the radicals that want to keep purity). Hamas and Hezbollah are the ones with the radical sponsors that can not accept for Israel to exist.
Let them back into Gaza (Hamas has been exterminated) and nurture them along aiming for a two state solution.
- Nov 6, 2005
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Common Courtesy is somewhat, IMHO, simply deluding himself by saying, "At present, Fatah is quiet and learning that positive relations with Israel may be better than hostile (allowing for the radicals that want to keep purity). Hamas and Hezbollah are the ones with the radical sponsors that can not accept for Israel to exist."
Yes, in sense the West Bank under the good peaceful Palestinians of Fatah get more food aid, but Israeli has not rewarded them in any way in terms of any two State solution, and instead, at least until the larger world demanded a settlement freeze, Israel has kept up its settlements and increased its stranglehold control.
So in a sense you are right Common Courtesy, Israel could militarily replace the democratically elected quasi government of Hamas with any puppet government of its own choosing, but please do not delude yourself into thinking it would lead to any progress in solving what Israeli has to do to end Israel's Palestinian problem.
So far Israeli seems to hope the Palestinians grow gills and swim away, and instead will soon find there are more Palestinians than Israeli Jews in Israel.
We must realize that there are only two ways forward here, either a Palestinian State made up of land captured during the 1967&73 wars, or Israel will have to assimilate its Palestinians with full voting rights.
And now the only real Israeli plan seems to be hope they will grow gills and swim away.
Worse yet for Israel, given the publicity generated by the Gaza blockade, is taking a world wide PR hit as many in the world are waking up to the plight of the Palestinians. Something the larger world ignored for 62 years but is no longer ignoring now. And the Israeli justifications that worked before are now being increasingly called into question.
Yes, in sense the West Bank under the good peaceful Palestinians of Fatah get more food aid, but Israeli has not rewarded them in any way in terms of any two State solution, and instead, at least until the larger world demanded a settlement freeze, Israel has kept up its settlements and increased its stranglehold control.
So in a sense you are right Common Courtesy, Israel could militarily replace the democratically elected quasi government of Hamas with any puppet government of its own choosing, but please do not delude yourself into thinking it would lead to any progress in solving what Israeli has to do to end Israel's Palestinian problem.
So far Israeli seems to hope the Palestinians grow gills and swim away, and instead will soon find there are more Palestinians than Israeli Jews in Israel.
We must realize that there are only two ways forward here, either a Palestinian State made up of land captured during the 1967&73 wars, or Israel will have to assimilate its Palestinians with full voting rights.
And now the only real Israeli plan seems to be hope they will grow gills and swim away.
Worse yet for Israel, given the publicity generated by the Gaza blockade, is taking a world wide PR hit as many in the world are waking up to the plight of the Palestinians. Something the larger world ignored for 62 years but is no longer ignoring now. And the Israeli justifications that worked before are now being increasingly called into question.
which Palestinian leader is in a position of enough authority and clout to negotiate a deal with Israel and clamp down on the extremist factions that will be satisfied with nothing less than the total destruction of the jews?
You're nothing but a worthless troll... I'd really like to see a moderator give you a quick smackdown. I've seen nothing but utterly worthless garbage from you in thread after thread...
- Oct 30, 2000
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Why should Israel give up land that was captured in return for nothing?
Gaza is land that Israel is in control of. If they were told to leave Gaza alone; then what stops them from turning off the taps on everything and letting the Palestinians in Gaza take care of themselves. that is what people are insisting. No advance warning.
Now the Arabs back in '48 realized that the Palestinians were not able to be a state on their own. And when did anyone give a damm about them (Palestinians) until after the Arab nations realized that they could not eliminated Israel.
Why is it that only when under Israel government that the Palestinians actually improved their life style that people want that improvement destroyed. Is it love for the Palestinians or hatred for Israel.
If the former, when the Arabs controlled Gaza and West Bank prior to '67, what did anyone ever do for/about the Palestinians.
NOTHING!
What did the world do for Israel for her first 30 years to help this new state grow and be secure.
NOTHING!
The world supported her enemies and protected/nurtured them while also ignoring the Palestinians.
Israel is not concerned about the numbers of Palestinians. It is concerned about the number of Palestinians that do not want Israel to exist.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
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If I decided I wanted your house, and came and captured it from you, why should I give it back in return for nothing? Same answer.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Why was the land captured in the first place. Because an Arab nation responsible for that land decided to attack Israel from that area.
Had the Arab nations responsible for that area not attacked Israel; she would not have to have taken control in a matter of life/death.
Let the Palestinians show that they deserve the house back by be willing to live side by side instead of trashing the house that they presently rent.
did israel have any territorial ambitions towards any part of the arab world at between 1948-1967?
no.
it did not.
only when the arab states provoked a war with israel was the land taken, and rightfully so. the six day war was confirmed as a war of self-defense.
if you didn't know - the arab states seized a land 4x the size of israel between 1948-1970s, should israelis be allowed to fight an eternal war to get their land back?
the majority of israeli jews are descedents of those expelled from the arab world, and the majority of those descedents of europeans are survivors of the holocaust.
germany and austria classified survivors as "non-reparatible" which meant they couldn't get their land back and lived in shitty refugee camps.
and yet, are are jews waging eternal war?
why are the palestinians allow to wage conflict against israel - which was never predicated on "stolen land" - and israel is not?
you can't possibly tell me 500 years from now the arab world has a right to fight the jews because of some event in 1948 or 1967.
LOL
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
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Because Jews in Europe decided to come take it, at the urging of corporate barons and Dominionist Christians.
more zionist conspiracy?
so what? people support the creation of a jewish state?
OH NOES THE HUMANITY!111111
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
Yeah, Israel's invasion of Egypt in 1956 being the most notable example of an attempt to conquer more territory.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
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Rather, well documented Zionist history, which explains why Zionists captured the land in the first place.
It's your utter lack of humanity that has you waving your hands here, particularly your blinding hatred of Arabs.
LOL you are a fool.
egypt's belligerence forced israel into a war, israel needed the straits of tiran and egypt blockaded aid - as cassius belle.
YOU ACCEPT ARAB AGENDA UNCHALLENGED.
im sure you have similar opinions towards egypt's invasion of yemen, which killed more people in 8 (120,000+) than 100 years of arab-israeli conflict.
and even assuming your interpretation, so what?
who gives a shit?
the arabs invaded israel. the muslims conquered half the world and genocided 100 million in the process.
you are descedents of those who invaded north america.
get off your high-horse, you are not morally superior. you are a bigot who supports antisemitic arabs who hate jews, hate kurds, and are full of hatred.
I DONT HATE ARABS YOU TROLL.
sorry i dont support antisemitic, bigoted muslims who hate jews and hate israel.
there is a reason they fail at everything they do. blaming israel and jews for all their problems, much like you do.
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