was this shooting justified?

[waggy]

do you have spy cameras in my house??

Yes.

BTW you missed a spot on your back shaving. oh and the red spandex you wear? awesome.

 

[Jaskalas]

i disagree. the initial shooting was justified. What he did after was not. the question is far to vague. It is a poorly worded question.

Agreed, which case if part of it was wrong I attributed that to the question as a whole. I voted no.

 

[D1gger]

I voted yes, the shooting was justified. But there should have been a second question. Was the follow-up execution justified? To that I would say no.

 

[irishScott]

why don't people use rubber bullets? too expensive?

You mean aside from the fact that criminals typically use real ones?

 

[TheNinja]

The first shot MAY have been justified b/c there were people in his house and he didn't know their intentions. There was no need to shoot the people again though.

It's hard to know the man's state of mind at that point though. He just shot someone and was probably freaking out and just kept going overboard.

However judging by his later testimony it seems like he knew what he was doing and what was going on and did it anyway. Dude is crazy.

 

[moonbogg]

I bet anything that this old guy had sexual relations with the body of the girl for that whole day before calling the cops. Why else would he wait if not humping the body?

 

[Theb]

No one is defending the kids. Everyone agreed they should have been shot. Its when gramps declares to have gotten pissed when she laughed and "gave her a shot to the cranium" and "it being a clean finishing shot" that people have a problem with.

This. There's only one controversial aspect to this story as presented.

i disagree. the initial shooting was justified. What he did after was not. the question is far to vague. It is a poorly worded question.

What he did after is really the only thing worth debating.

 

[clamum]

It's every gun owner's wet dream.

hahaha, what a pile of bullshit. I have my CPL and will get a pistol for it soon but I really hope I never have to use it, that's for sure.

 

[Theb]

I bet anything that this old guy had sexual relations with the body of the girl for that whole day before calling the cops. Why else would he wait if not humping the body?

I'm also curious if the autopsy will show anything interesting along those lines, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced he was growing pot or had something similarly sketchy going on at the house that he needed to hide before calling the cops.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

The way I see it:
In the complaint, Smith said he was in his basement when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Smith said he fired when Schaeffel came into view from the waist down.
This is justified

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.
This is execution and not justified only depending on whether or not he still posed a threat to the homeowner.

When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs.
He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed
This is justified

and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.... He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.
This was execution and not justified unless she was reaching for a weapon or posed a continued threat.


This is made worse by the fact that he didn't call the police until the next day.

Completely justified home defense shooting. Completely unjustified murder from the way it sounds.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm also curious if the autopsy will show anything interesting along those lines, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced he was growing pot or had something similarly sketchy going on at the house that he needed to hide before calling the cops.

Good call. Why else would gramps shack be such a target for break-ins? He was probably the neighborhood crazy weed man.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Everything up til dragging the girl into the other room to execute her was justified. The guy is a psycho and should be charged with murder.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

double tap

 

[darkewaffle]

This story doesn't really add up. Kids are stupid, dude is nutters though. But the girl not leaving after she must have heard the gunshot? The article says she was addicted to pills though (I think?), so she might not have been all 'there'.

Not really much sympathy for them though. Do dumb shit, pay the price. They didn't really need to die though, no.

 

[HNNstyle]

If you shot once and the victim is incapacitated then you stop. Finishing the job with a shot in the face as they lay on the ground is murder.

 

[WilliamM2]

Also, the house looks like a dilapidated piece of shit. There is no reason why anyone would try to rob it.

Right, so there must not be any crime in poor neighborhoods?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If you shot once and the victim is incapacitated then you stop. Finishing the job with a shot in the face as they lay on the ground is murder.

This.

Dragging them into a chair and then doing it is even worse.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the two youts.

breaking into someone's house is a crime. They weren't there to throw a surprise birthday party. People break-in for a reason: theft, vandalism, rape, murder, squatting, etc... The owner has no idea why they are there, and it doesn't matter anyway. They have no business being there. They could be armed with knives or guns. The owner doesn't know and why should he take the chance?

And what is the reasonable number of shots? Wing them and then watch them shoot the owner? Shoot them until the threat is gone. If that means multiple times, then so be it.

Stop this namby-pamby feeling sorry for criminals. How about feeling sorry for the victims of crimes instead?

this

If you hear gunshots in the room that your partner in crime just entered and both of you are unarmed, not only is it a stupid idea to head down to investigate, it's a REALLY stupid idea to laugh at the guy who just shot you and killed said partner.

and this

 

[Kadarin]

Having been burglarized myself once, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with these burglars being dead, and no sympathy for them at all. They deserve to rot.

HOWEVER, I think this guy is a piece of work who needs to be removed from society.

 

[Anonemous]

I'm also curious if the autopsy will show anything interesting along those lines, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced he was growing pot or had something similarly sketchy going on at the house that he needed to hide before calling the cops.

The old dude could've offered drugs/alcohol to get it on with the girl. But her pimp cousin wanted to blackmail the dude and things went downhill real fast. So he drugs/booze them up and then lures them to the basement one by one. That is another scenario.

/watches too much L&O

 

[Adrenaline]

These two kids were not role models to anyone other than aspiring criminals. The execution may have been extreme but if you break into someone's house what do you think could possibly happen?

 

[Scotteq]

No I would not. Read it. The important part is about presumption of threat, that's the real teeth of "real" castle doctrine laws.

You do not have the right to execute someone who is not posing a threat to you. You shoot after they stop attacking, it's murder.

 

[spidey07]

You do not have the right to execute someone who is not posing a threat to you. You shoot after they stop attacking, it's murder.

Not in my state. I've posted the laws about presumption of threat. Being in my house unlawfully = automatic threat by law.

 

[irishScott]

Not in my state. I've posted the laws about presumption of threat. Being in my house unlawfully = automatic threat by law.

So you're saying if I enter your house lawfully, but then you eject me and I simply refuse to leave, making no other threat, you can lawfully shoot me?

I'd love to see the state law that says that. If so, it means I could lure a dozen people into my house, kill them all and say "hey, they were here unlawfully!" and get off scott free. Pretty sure castle doctrine doesn't work that way.

 

[BladeVenom]

You mean aside from the fact that criminals typically use real ones?

Rubber bullets also won't stop someone who is really determined or on drugs. They also won't cycle a pistol.

Being almost winter, I doubt they'd be effective on someone wearing a heavy coat.